Alf Bentley Posted 12 July 2016 Posted 12 July 2016 Interesting that the NEC has also changed the rules for people voting in the leadership election. To vote, they'll have to have either been a full member for at least 6 months or will have to sign up as a registered supporter within 2 days, paying a fee of £25 (not £3). That will exclude a lot of recent joiners. If anything, that will surely help Corbyn's opponents, not Corbyn? Probably the right decision for Corbyn to be on the ballot paper - the alternative would have created an even bigger stink, and I hope there's no legal challenge. I reckon it would be defeated, anyway. Let's hope a credible alternative and credible opposition leader is also on the ballot paper, whether that's Eagle or someone else - someone needs to impress. It will still take an awfully big turnaround for all this to lead anywhere good.
The Horse's Mouth Posted 12 July 2016 Posted 12 July 2016 Corbyn got loads of new members flood in for the leadership contest anyway, he hardly needs anymore to back him. and if his sole competition is Eagle then he won't have to worry tbqh.
GaelicFox Posted 12 July 2016 Posted 12 July 2016 Labour is breaking up before our eyes ! It's finished and we will have a democratic Labour Party soon enough
Guest MattP Posted 12 July 2016 Posted 12 July 2016 Members who signed up after February not allowed to vote, sneaky.
Webbo Posted 12 July 2016 Posted 12 July 2016 Members who signed up after February not allowed to vote, sneaky. Most from before then would be Corbyn supporters surely? The some of the ones who joined recently could be people joining to vote him out.
Guest MattP Posted 12 July 2016 Posted 12 July 2016 It's widely held belief the most recent ones are Corbynistas after a push by Momentum to get his supporters into the party. Although I suppose no one really knows.
Strokes Posted 12 July 2016 Posted 12 July 2016 They need a decent challenger to get him out, Angela Eagle won't beat him. Who will step up?
Guest Bilo Posted 12 July 2016 Posted 12 July 2016 It's widely held belief the most recent ones are Corbynistas after a push by Momentum to get his supporters into the party. Although I suppose no one really knows. The huge recent surge has been the result of a pro Corbyn surge to flood the party with Momentum supporters to create a massive pro Corbyn voting bloc. Those who've been members for longer than six months are rather more diverse, I know of a few friends who voted Corbyn and have publicly stated that they certainly won't be doing the same again. I still think Corbyn will win, but a landslide win is far from certain.
Christoph Posted 13 July 2016 Posted 13 July 2016 The huge recent surge has been the result of a pro Corbyn surge to flood the party with Momentum supporters to create a massive pro Corbyn voting bloc. Those who've been members for longer than six months are rather more diverse, I know of a few friends who voted Corbyn and have publicly stated that they certainly won't be doing the same again. I still think Corbyn will win, but a landslide win is far from certain. I think this might be the case. He'll scrape it this time, making people doubt his chances of an election even more. Like trying to watch a man swim in oil. How he's still floating I have no idea. He must surely see he cannot win an election. This is coming from someone who is quite a keen supporter. I wonder if anyone else is going to put their name forward. Angela Eagle is such a waste of time.
Guest MattP Posted 13 July 2016 Posted 13 July 2016 Owen Smith set to join today apparently Christoph. John McDonnell just said on the BBC he wouldn't speak alongside another Labour MP as he didn't want to see them slinging mud at each other, it's time for a healthy and respectful debate. This is him 10 hours ago at a Momentum rally - I'm convinced this whole thing has got to be some of wind up now, no way can this be a serious political party in action.
Christoph Posted 13 July 2016 Posted 13 July 2016 He's not wrong though! As plotters they seem to think the best way to get things done is by stabbing themselves until everyone is drowning in their own blood.
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 13 July 2016 Posted 13 July 2016 You have to give Corbyn some due respect for sticking to his guns - that can't be easy and it at least shows some leadership skills. But what's most baffling to me is the areas where the party are falling out on, all see to be matters where the PLP Rebels want to agree with the government - Syria, the EU and Trident. What a bizarre situation it is when you step back and look at it! The other thing I ponder within all of this is out of the 3 contenders, which one would be best at taking on May? Personally, I think it would probably be Corbyn, so long as he had a unified party behind him. He'd at least offer something different - because let's face it the Conservatives landed themselves in all kinds of shit but ended up coming out smelling of roses. I'm sure some of the plotters are now having second thoughts - the alternative line up is far from inspiring and bar a monumental **** up from the Tories, the 2020 election is gone for Labour so in a way a change in leadership now, especially given the candidates on offer, is futile. Surely it's time to hunker down and protect as many seats as they can and move from there. And if they should be blaming anyone - it's Ed Milliband (or to be fair, whoever was advising him).
Cadno'r Cymoedd Posted 13 July 2016 Posted 13 July 2016 Owen Smith set to join today apparently He has joined it seems now. I repeat, this guy is an opportunistic narcissistic idiot with a thin veil of charm and intelligence. Classic politico then. But if you are voting, good luck as none of them are any good to my mind but Smith should be no go!
Guest MattP Posted 13 July 2016 Posted 13 July 2016 He's not wrong though! As plotters they seem to think the best way to get things done is by stabbing themselves until everyone is drowning in their own blood. He isn't, but they should stop with this "kinder, gentler politics" nonsense and stop taking the public for fools. They should just be honest, say it's a war for ideology, admit nasty things will be said and stop denying they are prepared to use intimidation and violence against fellow MP's to wrestle control of the party back from the centre.
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 13 July 2016 Posted 13 July 2016 He isn't, but they should stop with this "kinder, gentler politics" nonsense and stop taking the public for fools. They should just be honest, say it's a war for ideology, admit nasty things will be said and stop denying they are prepared to use intimidation and violence against fellow MP's to wrestle control of the party back from the centre. Right... this is in jest yes? And which side should go first with this declaration?
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 13 July 2016 Posted 13 July 2016 @@MattP Ah, just read John McDonald called the plotters "****ing useless!" so maybe we will get what you suggest. To be fair - he's spot on (and I like the fact that the press comment I've seen on this seems to agree)
Guest MattP Posted 13 July 2016 Posted 13 July 2016 Right... this is in jest yes? And which side should go first with this declaration? The side that keeps talking about what I said, the Corbyn/McDonnell side.
Rincewind Posted 13 July 2016 Posted 13 July 2016 While the Blairites are plotting Corbyn is having cups of tea at his local allotment society. Really? Is this as far his ambition goes? Mixing with the commoners. What a disgusting man he is he should be using his expense allowance for dinner parties and wine gatherings and maybe the odd business holiday.
Guest MattP Posted 13 July 2016 Posted 13 July 2016 While the Blairites are plotting Corbyn is having cups of tea at his local allotment society. Really? Is this as far his ambition goes? Mixing with the commoners. What a disgusting man he is he should be using his expense allowance for dinner parties and wine gatherings and maybe the odd business holiday. He does that, just at the expense of even poorer people in South America. http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/Politics/article1588611.ece (Although on the first line, that's great of him, but maybe he should get around to that Trident debate he is supposed to be conducting given the house is voting for it on Monday, fair play for trying to run an opposition to government from the allotment society with his mates though)
foxy boxing Posted 13 July 2016 Posted 13 July 2016 the perception in this country is that we have real democracy, yet labour mp's are doing all they can to oust Jeremy corbyn even though he was legally made the leader by a majority of the party members. does the labour party want its leader chosen by mps on which we will most likely get a blairite who will speak and act like any suit with their own agenda or does it want to elect a leader chosen by it's life long members on which we will get someone like corbyn who has deep seated values and beliefs
Lionator Posted 13 July 2016 Posted 13 July 2016 the perception in this country is that we have real democracy, yet labour mp's are doing all they can to oust Jeremy corbyn even though he was legally made the leader by a majority of the party members. does the labour party want its leader chosen by mps on which we will most likely get a blairite who will speak and act like any suit with their own agenda or does it want to elect a leader chosen by it's life long members on which we will get someone like corbyn who has deep seated values and beliefs And this is the very dilemma. Deep down those life long members must know that Corbyn doesn't appeal to the wider electorate whether that be due to the image the media give him or just that they don't like his policies. Do they abandon their beliefs so that Labour could potentially get into power again with a more central leader or do they stand up for what they believe in and risk never getting back in power?
Mark_w Posted 13 July 2016 Posted 13 July 2016 the perception in this country is that we have real democracy, yet labour mp's are doing all they can to oust Jeremy corbyn even though he was legally made the leader by a majority of the party members. does the labour party want its leader chosen by mps on which we will most likely get a blairite who will speak and act like any suit with their own agenda or does it want to elect a leader chosen by it's life long members on which we will get someone like corbyn who has deep seated values and beliefs It's great having a democratically elected leader with deep seated values and beliefs who hasn't got the power to do anything.
Rincewind Posted 13 July 2016 Posted 13 July 2016 the perception in this country is that we have real democracy, yet labour mp's are doing all they can to oust Jeremy corbyn even though he was legally made the leader by a majority of the party members. does the labour party want its leader chosen by mps on which we will most likely get a blairite who will speak and act like any suit with their own agenda or does it want to elect a leader chosen by it's life long members on which we will get someone like corbyn who has deep seated values and beliefs exactly. I do not know if he is the best man for the job but Labour MP's should basically have the same values and believe the same things or otherwise why are they members? When I vote I do not vote for a president but mainly for the party which is closest to my own values and sadly over the past few years there seems to be little difference. At least Corbyn speaks out against things he think are wrong. Take for instance Glenfield Child unit. A lot of people are up in arms about the prospect of it closing. Corby is one of the few MP's who would listen and do something about it. Yet he is criticised for doing something people agree with often by the same people. I know quite a few people left the Labour party when Blair was in power. Many joined the Greens. Now they have rejoined. The trouble is we have had so many years of right of centre politics in the UK that anything slightly left of Blair is considered looney left. As I said I do not know about Corbyn but I take little notice of the media speculation and I doubt he does either. Like he said when asked if he was feeling the pressure, 'The pressure is on those struggling to find ends meet.'
Guest MattP Posted 13 July 2016 Posted 13 July 2016 It's great having a democratically elected leader with deep seated values and beliefs who hasn't got the power to do anything. It was a question the Tories had to ask themselves in 2005, do you compromise some beliefs to be able to implement some, or do you compromise no beliefs but accept you'll implement nothing, the membership decided the former and went for the modernising but centre ground David Cameron over the principled but right wing David Davis. Labour are now being asked the same question and it looks like they'll go with the opposite. I actually think this suits a lot of the left though, certainly the Islington middle class bohemians, they have the wealth to actually not be that bothered about a Tory government anyway and they can now spend their weekends doing what they love, flashing their virtue, waving placards, protesting and shouting at anyone who disagrees them. (The difference here unlike the Tories after Howard and IDS is it could be too late by the time they realise what they have done and they might be finished as any sort of force) As Barry says earlier though, blame Ed Miliband, he opened up the £3 which opened up the Corbyn nomination, that opened up his leadership and his leadership has opened up groups like Momentum etc and the mass infiltration. I have to take my hat off to Seumas Milne and John McDonell though, it's been an exhibition in political infiltration and railroading from an insurgency.
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