Carl the Llama Posted 16 February 2017 Share Posted 16 February 2017 The press conference being discussed on this the previous page starts about 1h30 in. Â He's bonkers. Â I'm nowhere near the end so I can't fully comment on it yet but I thought I should share the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 16 February 2017 Share Posted 16 February 2017 2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: What's your take on those issues btw Thrac? 1) I'd never willingly invite or encourage any threat to the stability of our nation.   2) I don't see any excuse for illegal immigration.  3) If he's getting nowhere he's doing no worse than everyone else.  4) A lack of dialogue with Russia is only going to maintain an increasingly risky impasse.   5) I wouldn't want us to be without one so sound negotiation is paramount and that wouldn't be helped by his being made unwelcome. .  6) I wish our politicians would be as vehement about putting British citizens first.  7) It seems we agree on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FriendlyRam Posted 16 February 2017 Share Posted 16 February 2017 3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: The press conference being discussed on this page starts about 1h30 in.  He's bonkers.  I'm nowhere near the end so I can't fully comment on it yet but I thought I should share the link. The best bit for me was he claimed he had the biggest electoral win since Reagon....   He's just a nutter and sadly people were warned about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 16 February 2017 Share Posted 16 February 2017 3 minutes ago, FriendlyRam said: The best bit for me was he claimed he had the biggest electoral win since Reagon....   He's just a nutter and sadly people were warned about him. I don't see the big deal. There's countless people on here all but worship Ranieri yet the bloke appears on television in response to the most abject performances talking about how hard we fought and how we just didn't get the rub of the green and more. It's a self-defence mechanism as much as anything. Illusionary? Undoubtedly but it can be seen on here and in daily political life every day. Drinky's a current example. His supporters still won't hear a word against him. Same as some King haters won't utter a word in his defence. And how many politicians refuse point blank to say a word even when asked a direct question they can't produce an honest yet justifiable answer for?  So Trump chooses to see what he wants? What's new? It's decisions and outcomes that matter. Not verbiage.     Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jattdogg Posted 16 February 2017 Share Posted 16 February 2017 Think the best way forward if for us all to smoke some marijuana, drink many pints amd endulge in food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 16 February 2017 Share Posted 16 February 2017 3 minutes ago, Thracian said: 1) I'd never willingly invite or encourage any threat to the stability of our nation.   2) I don't see any excuse for illegal immigration.  3) If he's getting nowhere he's doing no worse than everyone else.  4) A lack of dialogue with Russia is only going to maintain an increasingly risky impasse.   5) I wouldn't want us to be without one so sound negotiation is paramount and that wouldn't be helped by his being made unwelcome. .  6) I wish our politicians would be as vehement about putting British citizens first.  7) It seems we agree on this. 1) Well he unwittingly has.  2) Fine, but maybe prioritise your resources towards the criminal element instead of destroying families and alienating foreign nations.  3) It's not that he's getting nowhere, it's that he's not trying to get anywhere because he has no idea.  4) He is being blackmailed by Russia.  Would you like them to blackmail our Prime Minister?  5) Obviously.  I hope you're not implying I've ever argued to ban him from the UK because I haven't and I wouldn't.  6) That's a shame.  7) We get to end on a positive, how nice.     Just got to the bit where he complains about the press reporting news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ealingfox Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 !!!!! Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 2 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: 1) Well he unwittingly has.  2) Fine, but maybe prioritise your resources towards the criminal element instead of destroying families and alienating foreign nations.  3) It's not that he's getting nowhere, it's that he's not trying to get anywhere because he has no idea.  4) He is being blackmailed by Russia.  Would you like them to blackmail our Prime Minister?  5) Obviously.  I hope you're not implying I've ever argued to ban him from the UK because I haven't and I wouldn't.  6) That's a shame.  7) We get to end on a positive, how nice.     Just got to the bit where he complains about the press reporting news. 1) The threat has been an open one for years. If you're saying it has just been "unwittingly" made worse, you may be right but can you genuinely predict the positives or negatives of the decision over his term of office? Personally I doubt the wisdom of the declared policy for reasons that include the one you've mentioned, I have always believed that targeting should be specific rather than theoretical yet on many other issues in relation to crime (or threat) people on here don't agree with me but choose to condone theoretical prosecution.    2) Mexico - as the subject refers to - has a responsibility to control its citizens just as Leicester City has a responsibility to control its players and its crowds. The rules are well known and crossing the border illegally is an offence and one knowingly committed notwithstanding any possible impact on family situations. the immigration laws don't just apply to criminals nor should they.  3) It's far too early to decide whether Trump will make any progress on the subject of Israel. But everyone else has failed so there's a pretty good chance he'll do better.   4) Blackmailed or not - how could a lack of dialogue help the situation? I'd far rather have Russia as an ally of the West than an enemy.  5) I didn't argue or imply that at all.            Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacamion Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 5 hours ago, Thracian said: I don't see the big deal. There's countless people on here all but worship Ranieri yet the bloke appears on television in response to the most abject performances talking about how hard we fought and how we just didn't get the rub of the green and more. It's a self-defence mechanism as much as anything. Illusionary? Undoubtedly but it can be seen on here and in daily political life every day. Drinky's a current example. His supporters still won't hear a word against him. Same as some King haters won't utter a word in his defence. And how many politicians refuse point blank to say a word even when asked a direct question they can't produce an honest yet justifiable answer for? Â So Trump chooses to see what he wants? What's new? It's decisions and outcomes that matter. Not verbiage. Â Â Â Â Â You never change, do you? Â A thread about Trump and you make the point that Andy King isn't getting enough game time. Â Â Maybe you would like to discuss North Korea with reference to City's Youth and under 23 sides.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merging Cultures Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 It's laughable to think that Donald Trump actually cares about the people of America. If he did, he would 1. not have run for President as he has no idea what he is doing, 2. he would pick cabinet members, and other people on his team, who had the experience  and could advise him properly, rather than the Goldman Sachs alumni and people who don't like the departments they are going to work for.  Trump and his team are only interested in furthering their own interests and not of those of ALL Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 8 hours ago, Thracian said: 1) The threat has been an open one for years. If you're saying it has just been "unwittingly" made worse, you may be right but can you genuinely predict the positives or negatives of the decision over his term of office? Personally I doubt the wisdom of the declared policy for reasons that include the one you've mentioned, I have always believed that targeting should be specific rather than theoretical yet on many other issues in relation to crime (or threat) people on here don't agree with me but choose to condone theoretical prosecution.    2) Mexico - as the subject refers to - has a responsibility to control its citizens just as Leicester City has a responsibility to control its players and its crowds. The rules are well known and crossing the border illegally is an offence and one knowingly committed notwithstanding any possible impact on family situations. the immigration laws don't just apply to criminals nor should they.  3) It's far too early to decide whether Trump will make any progress on the subject of Israel. But everyone else has failed so there's a pretty good chance he'll do better.   4) Blackmailed or not - how could a lack of dialogue help the situation? I'd far rather have Russia as an ally of the West than an enemy.  5) I didn't argue or imply that at all.            1) I never claimed I could but you started asking me these things so I thought I'd do the decent thing and try to answer.  Not sure which declared policy you're referencing, I'm not aware of any anti-terrorism policy announcements which have stood and actually change their approach to counter-terrorism.  I am aware of him launching a horribly planned raid in Yemen which killed a lot of innocents and one US army member all because his aides, in a move lifted straight off the school playground, told him that Obama wouldn't have had the balls to do it (because they knew that Obama for all his love of drone attacks would have required more concrete intelligence before ok-ing an operation like that).  2) Very true, but there are nuances to the subject and as with all criminal matters there some methods of enforcement are more practical than others.  For all the political damage it stands to do internationally I would say he's being too heavy handed at the moment.  3) You must know how flawed your logic is there.  4) I'd rather have every country on the planet be allies but that doesn't change the fact that a violent and dictatorial nuclear regime currently has the POTUS in its pocket and you're being incredibly naive if you think Putin's plan is to use this situation to foster global peace.  If you were Ukrainian or any one of Russia's other immediate neighbours I reckon you'd have a very different view of things.  5) Good, thanks.  By the way, what's your view on the Trump administration's relationship with Iran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 2 hours ago, Merging Cultures said: It's laughable to think that Donald Trump actually cares about the people of America. If he did, he would 1. not have run for President as he has no idea what he is doing, 2. he would pick cabinet members, and other people on his team, who had the experience  and could advise him properly, rather than the Goldman Sachs alumni and people who don't like the departments they are going to work for.  Trump and his team are only interested in furthering their own interests and not of those of ALL Americans. Politician found to be in it for their own ends and interests. Now that's a rare one the world over!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_federal_politicians_convicted_of_crimes   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 4 minutes ago, Thracian said: Politician found to be in it for their own ends and interests. Now that's a rare one the world over!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_federal_politicians_convicted_of_crimes   Please stop justifying criminal behaviour with other criminal behaviour if you're going to turn around and say things like all illegal immigration should be dealt with regardless of their impact on the local economy because they're illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: Please stop justifying criminal behaviour with other criminal behaviour if you're going to turn around and say things like all illegal immigration should be dealt with regardless of their impact on the local economy because they're illegal. The problem starts when the law is broken in the first place. And it's the same in this country. Allow one person to stay here illegally and it encourages others to try the same thing. As for the economy and the need for, say, seasonal labour, there are simple solutions that can be effected through the law of the land like temporary work permits, rigourously checked, and with strong deterrents for any breaches. The consequences of illegal or corruptly engineered entry to countries is highlighted so often it's pathetic. Whether it be terrorists who are almost always found to have "previous" or murderers found to be already wanted in the country they've come from for some serious crime. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 Just now, Thracian said: The problem starts when the law is broken in the first place. And it's the same in this country. Allow one person to stay here illegally and it encourages others to try the same thing. As for the economy and the need for, say, seasonal labour, there are simple solutions that can be effected through the law of the land like temporary work permits, rigourously checked, and with strong deterrents for any breaches. The consequences of illegal or corruptly engineered entry to countries is highlighted so often it's pathetic. Whether it be terrorists who are almost always found to have "previous" or murderers found to be already wanted in the country they've come from for some serious crime. Â So why the Jeff are you defending a regime that has shown frequent disdain for their own constitution? Â And yet you dare tell me I'm selective. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 Have I defended going against the Constitution? Â I can't recall it. Â Â Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 8 minutes ago, Thracian said: Have I defended going against the Constitution? Â I can't recall it. Â Sorry you're right, you did already clarify that you weren't defending him when you pointlessly quipped about Blair and selective outrage, you were just being ornery for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 No opinion on Iran btw I take it? Â No concerns with how the Trump administration seem to be trying to engineer a war with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 10 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: Sorry you're right, you did already clarify that you weren't defending him when you pointlessly quipped about Blair and selective outrage, you were just being ornery for the sake of it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38996179  Pointless? Even today, Blair takes the piss out of democracy as he did do with the wholesale deceit of his own administration. You'll convince yourself of anything. His attitude is like Sturgeon's. If he can't prevail by consensus he'll try to prevail some other way. Doubtless Trump will be the same but it doesn't make it right if you support the idea of democracy, which I don't deep down because it leaves us wide open to bad ideas and being influenced by the loudest voice or the biggest "Grin and Blair It" smiles.      Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 Just now, Thracian said: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38996179  Pointless? Even today, Blair takes the piss out of democracy as he did do with the wholesale deceit of his own administration. You'll convince yourself of anything.   *Sigh* see the EU thread.  You're the one being selective here: Outraged by Tony but apparently entirely open to ignoring the bad stuff and giving him a chance when it comes to Trump.   I guess we're done with this conversation if you have no response to my question about Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38989907 Where was this concern for national security when candidate Trump repeatedly asked Russia to hack his opponent?  This just continues the worrying trend recently of western governments reverting to a politics of operational secrecy from their own people and that behaviour always ends positively, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 I've not responded to your Iran question because I've been replying to your other questions and because I've not had chance to properly consider that situation.  Does the Trump administration even have a declared or definable relationship with Iran?  Be more specific on the subject by all means, but with IS being a Sunni group and Iran being Shia I'd be interested in what you'd expect me to say.  Muslims have fought for expansion since they came on the scene over 1200 years ago and when they're not fighting non-Muslims they fight against those who interpret Islam differently. They have never stopped fighting which is strange for a so-called peaceful faith.  But it's not going to change wherever Trump sits on the subject.       Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thracian Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 18 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38989907 Where was this concern for national security when candidate Trump repeatedly asked Russia to hack his opponent?  This just continues the worrying trend recently of western governments reverting to a politics of operational secrecy from their own people and that behaviour always ends positively, doesn't it? I hope you're not asking me to debate the merits of state secrecy against state openness. It's nothing like as easy a debate as you might imagine. Indeed I'd ask if there's any such thing as truly open government.  There are always hidden agendas and if they're not hidden they become opposed - for better or worse. Again, it's another potential flaw in democracy. If most people vote for a bad idea it doesn't mean the voters are right, just that they have the right and that can be dangerous to the point of catastrophic. Blair or Trump come immediately to mind.    Anyway, things to do. The world's in other people's hands, not mine.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 Jesus fvcking Christ. Â No wonder Alf wanted a break from this place - either I need to add even more people to my ignore list or join him in exile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jattdogg Posted 17 February 2017 Share Posted 17 February 2017 5 hours ago, Merging Cultures said: It's laughable to think that Donald Trump actually cares about the people of America. If he did, he would 1. not have run for President as he has no idea what he is doing, 2. he would pick cabinet members, and other people on his team, who had the experience  and could advise him properly, rather than the Goldman Sachs alumni and people who don't like the departments they are going to work for.  Trump and his team are only interested in furthering their own interests and not of those of ALL Americans. But he is draining the swamp of filthy politicians and filling it back with filthy billionaires who benefited from those same filthy politicians.  Lets make america great again ( cough cough ahem, for the rich). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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