President Trump & the USA

[Choppalcfc]

7 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Really? I thought that was a rather important element come election day.

 

Anyway, Cohen beginning to spill the beans. Trump ignoring it while playing the economics line - which is pretty good for him (the only thing) right now so long as it lasts.

Disagree with the important element part, tbh most of my friends from America didnt like Trump but voted for him too keep the Democrats out and the fact that there seems to be no strong Democratic leaders in the US right now shows he is most probs going to be reelected in 2020, also with the counterfeit news network (CNN) spreading a lot of fake news and creating mountains out of molehills and the fact there ratings keep going down drastically along with MSNBC, shows that people in the US are siding with Republicans, personally i would of not voted for Trump in 2016 or 2020, but people are sick of the social politics over in the US and thats why they vote for him, not for his trade policies etc, also i believe this Cohen thing will blow over and people wont care, same as they didnt with Stormy Daniels or Comey, his supporters are going to stay his supporters and as i said with the amount of genuine fake news that has gone on, people take a lot less notice of what is said by news in general over there now.

Edited 28 July 2018 by Choppalcfc

[The Doctor]

8 hours ago, Choppalcfc said:

Disagree with the important element part, tbh most of my friends from America didnt like Trump but voted for him too keep the Democrats out 

To keep the Dems out or to keep Hilary specifically out? It's become a bit of a meme but the polling at the time, including from Trump's own team, suggested that Bernie would have stood a far better chance and probably won.

 

Unfortunately people probably won't care, the bloke has blundered from scandal to scandal, there's a probe into him yet he's currently picking his own judge to decide on the outcome of that and people seem to have lost that energy - if things are constantly outrageous eventually people just burn out. 

[leicsmac]

8 hours ago, Choppalcfc said:

Disagree with the important element part, tbh most of my friends from America didnt like Trump but voted for him too keep the Democrats out and the fact that there seems to be no strong Democratic leaders in the US right now shows he is most probs going to be reelected in 2020, also with the counterfeit news network (CNN) spreading a lot of fake news and creating mountains out of molehills and the fact there ratings keep going down drastically along with MSNBC, shows that people in the US are siding with Republicans, personally i would of not voted for Trump in 2016 or 2020, but people are sick of the social politics over in the US and thats why they vote for him, not for his trade policies etc, also i believe this Cohen thing will blow over and people wont care, same as they didnt with Stormy Daniels or Comey, his supporters are going to stay his supporters and as i said with the amount of genuine fake news that has gone on, people take a lot less notice of what is said by news in general over there now.

 

This is all operating on the assumption that it's still 2016 and:

 

- The economy remains the most important issue

- The Dems put up just as terrible a candidate in 2020 as they did in 2016, and as such a lot of potential Dem voters stay at home and don't vote

- Trump can hold onto the support base he has; he sure as hell isn't going to win over any more folks that he did in '16.

 

Now, all of that is possible (it's why he's still even money - just about - to win the next election) but I wouldn't say it's probable, not when there's so much that can change between now and then. Mentioning that people voted against the social policies is interesting; do that many people really have that much lack of regard for women and minorities that they're willing to vote in an administration who have said they will do their level best to shaft them and are sticking to their word?

 

It's also interesting that you mention people disregarding all the negativity/scandals: it's definitely a thing, but don't you think that the way things have played out with all the various scandals, how badly Trump is perceived in a lot of the world, pretty much every element apart from the economic might not shore up anyone apart from his voter based...unless there's another part of this administration that is going well - and if so, what is exactly is that in your opinion?

[Choppalcfc]

Im not disregarding anything, all Im saying  on that topic is that him having sex with a porn star 7 years ago and a salty director of the FBI that was fired hasn't hurt him tbh, and for your women and minorities statement is getting extremely old, Hilary was the one shaming women that her husband was having sex with, she was the one who defended a pedophile and laughed about it, I don't care how his administration is going tbh, people are just fed up of people acting as victims and being politically correct, i think thats why a lot have people have voted for him, based on the social issues of today, the fact that people are that ignorant that they say "if you voted for Trump you're a racist and sexist" is why more people vote for him, people are not as educated on the economy as others are, i probs agree with you on a lot of things, i just think this PC culture has to die, as i said I wouldnt have voted for Trump, and I do believe that a lot of CNN and MSNBC's news is fake also, i also believe a lot of Fox's news is fake also, they're going to side with the party that they back, whether they're Democrats or Republicans.

[Choppalcfc]

2 hours ago, The Doctor said:

To keep the Dems out or to keep Hilary specifically out? It's become a bit of a meme but the polling at the time, including from Trump's own team, suggested that Bernie would have stood a far better chance and probably won.

 

Unfortunately people probably won't care, the bloke has blundered from scandal to scandal, there's a probe into him yet he's currently picking his own judge to decide on the outcome of that and people seem to have lost that energy - if things are constantly outrageous eventually people just burn out. 

i agree i believe he probs would of won as well

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Choppalcfc said:

Im not disregarding anything, all Im saying  on that topic is that him having sex with a porn star 7 years ago and a salty director of the FBI that was fired hasn't hurt him tbh, and for your women and minorities statement is getting extremely old, Hilary was the one shaming women that her husband was having sex with, she was the one who defended a pedophile and laughed about it, I don't care how his administration is going tbh, people are just fed up of people acting as victims and being politically correct, i think thats why a lot have people have voted for him, based on the social issues of today, the fact that people are that ignorant that they say "if you voted for Trump you're a racist and sexist" is why more people vote for him, people are not as educated on the economy as others are, i probs agree with you on a lot of things, i just think this PC culture has to die, as i said I wouldnt have voted for Trump, and I do believe that a lot of CNN and MSNBC's news is fake also, i also believe a lot of Fox's news is fake also, they're going to side with the party that they back, whether they're Democrats or Republicans.

And yet this administration is passing through (or allowing) legislation making womens healthcare much more difficult to access in certain parts of the country, doing similar for equal rights for LGBT groups, and arresting numerous US citizens on suspicion of being illegal immigrants simply because of their skin colour, not to mention turning a blind eye to various police brutalities against minority groups. And it's not the Democrats that the alt-right in the US are voting for, either - not to mention having one of them help mastermind Trumps campaign with his own media network.

 

Is there any argument at all (apart from some tenuous economic figures) that indicate this administration is better for the rights of women and minorities than, say, the last one?

 

I agree that appearing victimised and going overly PC probably isn't going to win many friends and influence many people, and simply labelling folks as racist and sexist and not listening to legimitate fears is not a good thing - and I certainly agree with media bias from both ends in the US, that's massively clear, but Trump was pretty clear on what his administration wanted to achieve, and if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it normally is one. We're seeing the same thing in a few places in Europe with people lurching towards hardcore nationalists because they feel they have nowhere else to do - and while there's sympathy for them feeling that way, I really don't think there's any justification for giving legitimacy to neofascists (don't think Trump is one, but the organisation as a whole certainly has had a fillip with him in power).

 

And that's to say nothing of the scientific and environmental policy which is argulably more important than anything else (hint: it ain't good).

[Guest]

I'm lack in knowledge about something (I know, I find it hard to believe too), why was Hillary supposedly such a bad candidate? 

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, toddybad said:

I'm lack in knowledge about something (I know, I find it hard to believe too), why was Hillary supposedly such a bad candidate? 

Wrong timing more than anything really, she was pure political establishment at a time when a lot of voters were looking for something anti-establishment. Also, she didn't resonate well with minority voters, and their lack of turnout was a pretty critical factor.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44995333

 

Tragic stuff.

 

One thing I did notice however was someone being interviewed about this and mentioning that they had no idea why these incidents were becoming more regular. Perhaps they ought to direct that question to the current administration and see how they answer.

[leicsmac]

https://twitter.com/SHOwhoisAmerica/status/1023758952389988352

 

Roy Moore, ladies and gentlemen.

[Detroit Blues]

On 28/07/2018 at 14:46, toddybad said:

I'm lack in knowledge about something (I know, I find it hard to believe too), why was Hillary supposedly such a bad candidate? 

Republican's have spent the better part of twenty years demonizing her. From the time she was the first lady, to her days as a senator, and then most recently as secretary of state. If you recall, the Republicans tried to pin Benghazi on her back in 2016. 

 

That being said, she was a terrible candidate, yet could have been an effective leader. It never sat right with me to vote for her, but there was no alternative. Unfortunately many other moderates saw Trump, third party candidates, or not voting as better alternatives.

 

 

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45009078

 

Two key problems with the way the US is now in one neat tragic package. Let's not pretend neither of them exist.

[Buce]

30 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45009078

 

Two key problems with the way the US is now in one neat tragic package. Let's not pretend neither of them exist.

 

Sickening. 

 

And that’s what some would have here. 

[Dr The Singh]

3 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Sickening. 

 

And that’s what some would have here. 

But, atleast those people are being out on trial, there's no hiding from the law, I'm not sure the same would happen here

[Buce]

9 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

But, atleast those people are being out on trial, there's no hiding from the law, I'm not sure the same would happen here

 

My point was that it is sickening that in the Worlds wealthiest nation, access to an ambulance and subsequent medical treatment is dependant on the ability to pay. 

[leicsmac]

10 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

But, atleast those people are being out on trial, there's no hiding from the law, I'm not sure the same would happen here

TBF Singhy this wouldn't happen over here because medics wouldn't have to consider whether or not a patient could afford an ambulance ride in the first place.

[Dr The Singh]

8 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

TBF Singhy this wouldn't happen over here because medics wouldn't have to consider whether or not a patient could afford an ambulance ride in the first place.

I meant the racial profiling, the choice between saving a white person Vs ethnic/black

[Dr The Singh]

10 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

My point was that it is sickening that in the Worlds wealthiest nation, access to an ambulance and subsequent medical treatment is dependant on the ability to pay. 

Agreed that is sickening

[ozleicester]

If you have a few spare hours, this is an amazing pod....

 

http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/russia-if-youre-listening/

[Buce]

Trump pushes Jeff Sessions to end Mueller's Russia investigation 'right now'

President rages on Twitter against ‘terrible situation’ and says attorney general ‘should stop this Rigged Witch Hunt right now’

 

Donald Trump appeared to order his attorney general Jeff Sessions to pull the plug “right now” on special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation of Trump campaign ties to Russia with a tweet on Wednesday morning.

Trump frequently rages on Twitter about the Mueller investigation, which the president calls a “witch hunt”. Trump reportedly ordered Mueller fired in 2017 but backed down in the face of internal White House resistance. Trump has said that he regretted appointing Sessions because Sessions recused himself from matters relating to the Mueller inquiry.

 

“..This is a terrible situation and Attorney General Jeff Sessions should stop this Rigged Witch Hunt right now, before it continues to stain our country any further,” Trump tweeted. “Bob Mueller is totally conflicted, and his 17 Angry Democrats that are doing his dirty work are a disgrace to USA!”

Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)

..This is a terrible situation and Attorney General Jeff Sessions should stop this Rigged Witch Hunt right now, before it continues to stain our country any further. Bob Mueller is totally conflicted, and his 17 Angry Democrats that are doing his dirty work are a disgrace to USA!

 

The phrase “17 angry Democrats” is Trump’s shorthand for a conspiracy theory imputing political bias to the special counsel’s team. Mueller is a Republican, his direct superior is a Republican, and his teams includes members who have made political donations in the past to both Democrats and Republicans.

Democratic congressman Adam Schiff, the ranking member of the House intelligence committee, expressed alarm at the president’s order.

“The President of the United States just called on his Attorney General to put an end to an investigation in which the President, his family and campaign may be implicated,” Schiff tweeted. “This is an attempt to obstruct justice hiding in plain sight. America must never accept it.”

 

Two Trump lawyers later denied that the tweet was an order for Sessions to act. “The president has issued no order or direction to the Department of Justice on this,” lawyer Jay Sekulow said in a statement to the Washington Post.

 

“I think it’s very well-established the president uses tweets to express his opinion,” Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani told the Post. “He very carefully used the word ‘should’.”

The White House has previously said that Trump’s tweets constitute official statements by the president. The attorney general was nominated by the president to his post, serves at his pleasure and may be dismissed by him at any time.

As head of the justice department, Sessions has authority over the special counsel investigation, and although he has recused himself, Sessions could disrupt the Mueller investigation by ordering deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein to fire Mueller or by firing Rosenstein.

Sessions has made no indication of a willingness to take any such step.

Trump’s lashing out Wednesday morning appeared to be prompted by the trial of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, which began on Tuesday and which is being prosecuted by Mueller’s team.

“These old charges have nothing to do with Collusion – a Hoax!” Trump tweeted in reference to the Manafort trial.

Trump is correct that the 18 charges of bank fraud and tax evasion that Manafort currently faces in federal court in Virginia do not directly relate to alleged collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian operatives. In the five months he led the Trump campaign, Manafort remained in contact with his partners in Ukraine and Russia, at least one of whom had Russian intelligence ties, and Manafort offered a Russian oligarch private briefings on the campaign.

Mueller has indicted 31 individuals, including 12 Russian intelligence agents, and three former Trump aides have reached plea deals with prosecutors. Late on Tuesday it emerged that Mueller had referred a new case, involving the alleged failure of a Democratic lobbyist and a former Republican congressman to register as foreign agents, to prosecutors in New York.

Previously, Mueller referred a case involving former Trump attorney Michael Cohen to prosecutors in New York.

[leicsmac]

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/02/631986713/white-house-proposal-rolls-back-fuel-economy-standards-no-exception-for-californ?t=1533224966664

 

At the risk of being facetious, do the people laying this out have some kind of hideaway or second Earth that they're keeping under their hat? Or do they really believe that Republican Jesus will deliver them from all their mistakes if they just confess?

[Buce]

23 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/02/631986713/white-house-proposal-rolls-back-fuel-economy-standards-no-exception-for-californ?t=1533224966664

 

At the risk of being facetious, do the people laying this out have some kind of hideaway or second Earth that they're keeping under their hat? Or do they really believe that Republican Jesus will deliver them from all their mistakes if they just confess?

 

They believe in Jesus but their God is money.

[Dr The Singh]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

They believe in Jesus but their God is money.

Which Jesus, blue eyed one, blonde hair one, brown hair lightly tanned dude, or the one that's really unpopular but most realistic, the darkish brown dude that looks like an arab?  Seeing as it;s the US, the more european loking the more Jesus it is.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Dr The Singh said:

Which Jesus, blue eyed one, blonde hair one, brown hair lightly tanned dude, or the one that's really unpopular but most realistic, the darkish brown dude that looks like an arab?  Seeing as it;s the US, the more european loking the more Jesus it is.

For additional clarification.

[leicsmac]

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/longtime-gay-rights-opponent-tony-perkins-named-u-s-religious-n875016

 

All about that religious freedom to deny LGBT folks rights, amirite?