leicsmac Posted 24 July 2018 Share Posted 24 July 2018 14 minutes ago, MattP said: I'm a complete hypocrite on the issue, I'd never want to live under an autocratic or authoritarian regime, but I also recognise these people often do what they say. Duerte for example does appeal to me, he's got the bad guys on the run in a way we could only dream of, it's so easy for us to criticise from our liberal Western position but his people seem to enjoy the peace they now have under him. Quite an interesting read in The Tines yesterday - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/our-timid-leaders-can-learn-from-strongmen-3xhqhk0zw I was surprised they put that to print. Haha, well, fair enough. I like to think I'm consistent in my dislike of any and all autocrats and authoritarians. That much power almost always ends up corrupting and terrible stuff happens, even if there's some good stuff, to begin with/alongside it. What they get done is almost always never worth what it costs in lives and livelihoods to do, and long-term such folks cause wars (whether civil or outside) that distract from a world that really needs to face certain issues as one. Mind copypastaing that article so a look can be had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 24 July 2018 Share Posted 24 July 2018 Further to a post yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=406KqNDgKuI 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 24 July 2018 Share Posted 24 July 2018 7 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Haha, well, fair enough. I like to think I'm consistent in my dislike of any and all autocrats and authoritarians. That much power almost always ends up corrupting and terrible stuff happens, even if there's some good stuff, to begin with/alongside it. What they get done is almost always never worth what it costs in lives and livelihoods to do, and long-term such folks cause wars (whether civil or outside) that distract from a world that really needs to face certain issues as one. Mind copypastaing that article so a look can be had? Just logged off but I'll whack it up tomorrow. They've stopped being able to copy and paste from the mobile app. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oxlong Posted 24 July 2018 Share Posted 24 July 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jattdogg Posted 25 July 2018 Share Posted 25 July 2018 https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1021784726217142273 Lol no president has been tougher on russia. You cannot make this ish up. What a total tw@t. https://mobile.twitter.com/Msgargoyle13/status/1021903646521417728/photo/1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 25 July 2018 Share Posted 25 July 2018 What do you think Trump actually has to do to get sacked? Serious question. He can pay off women for affairs and threaten them, get in bed with the Russians, have them fix his election, scream at world leaders on twitter, call individual policemen cowards, go to war with the NFL. There's countless more, there's been an incident almost every month in office. I mean regardless of what he actually does or doesn't do in terms of policy, how much scandal can you actually sustain before you're shit canned? I genuinely can't see Trump ever resigning, like Nixon, and Nixon never had the modern 21st century infrastructure of American far right news media, social media and populist online presence backing him up and absolving him of almost any wrong doing. Between the cult of personality, the alt right movement, the power of the like of Fox News and Co and the fact he's almost certainly too narcissistic to ever be able to accept fault and resign - what does Trump ACTUALLY have to do to get booted out? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 25 July 2018 Share Posted 25 July 2018 25 minutes ago, Finnegan said: What do you think Trump actually has to do to get sacked? Serious question. He can pay off women for affairs and threaten them, get in bed with the Russians, have them fix his election, scream at world leaders on twitter, call individual policemen cowards, go to war with the NFL. There's countless more, there's been an incident almost every month in office. I mean regardless of what he actually does or doesn't do in terms of policy, how much scandal can you actually sustain before you're shit canned? I genuinely can't see Trump ever resigning, like Nixon, and Nixon never had the modern 21st century infrastructure of American far right news media, social media and populist online presence backing him up and absolving him of almost any wrong doing. Between the cult of personality, the alt right movement, the power of the like of Fox News and Co and the fact he's almost certainly too narcissistic to ever be able to accept fault and resign - what does Trump ACTUALLY have to do to get booted out? It would need a scandal so far-reaching that at least some Repubs couldn't ignore because it directly threatened them, I think - threatened them enough that they'd be afraid of losing ground in the House, Senate and Presidential elections next time around. Giving a President the boot almost always has to be bipartisan, and seeing as Repubs aren't interested in anything that isn't in their own self-interest it would need something affecting them personally in a big negative way that would cost them now or in the immediate future. If the Dems managed to flip the House and Senate this November (House possible to probable, Senate unlikely but possible), then impeachment proceedings could be brought reasonably swiftly as I'm sure every single Dem would line up to get him canned. TBH if that were to happen though I'm pretty sure Trump would take the Nixon route out and jump before he knew he was going to be pushed and get himself a pardon from Pence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 25 July 2018 Share Posted 25 July 2018 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44949504 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-44789523 Ali G still making waves with daft people Stateside then. Sarah Palin doesn't seem happy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detroit Blues Posted 25 July 2018 Share Posted 25 July 2018 3 hours ago, Finnegan said: What do you think Trump actually has to do to get sacked? Serious question. He can pay off women for affairs and threaten them, get in bed with the Russians, have them fix his election, scream at world leaders on twitter, call individual policemen cowards, go to war with the NFL. There's countless more, there's been an incident almost every month in office. I mean regardless of what he actually does or doesn't do in terms of policy, how much scandal can you actually sustain before you're shit canned? I genuinely can't see Trump ever resigning, like Nixon, and Nixon never had the modern 21st century infrastructure of American far right news media, social media and populist online presence backing him up and absolving him of almost any wrong doing. Between the cult of personality, the alt right movement, the power of the like of Fox News and Co and the fact he's almost certainly too narcissistic to ever be able to accept fault and resign - what does Trump ACTUALLY have to do to get booted out? So long as the republicans control Congress, there's no scandal that could sink him. They're already okay with him colluding with the Russian government, paying off multiple porn stars to keep his affairs quiet, instituting a policy that removes children from their immigrant parents at the border, banning Muslims from traveling to the United States, threatening foreign leaders during twitter rants (in all caps no less), and that is just from the last calendar year Republicans want to get that conservative supreme court justice confirmed, and so they would be willing to withstand any amount of embarrassment he will cause. They dream of the day Roe vs Wade gets repealed so that abortion becomes illegal, and so the ends would justify the means. They don't care about democracy, they just care about their team winning. Assuming the Republicans hold onto congress at the midterms, he'll finish out his four years. No amount of Mueller evidence would convince Republicans to impeach their own. In the Nixon days, they had to in order to keep their place in congress. But in today's Fox News 24/7 republican propaganda world, their base would continue to vote Republican no matter what. A good question is whether or not Trump would want to run for re-election. On one hand his narcissism might force him to run because he truly believes he would win again. On the other hand, he would very likely lose, as the turnout to vote him out of office would almost definitely lead to a democratic victory.... Unless of course they collude with the Russians again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 25 July 2018 Share Posted 25 July 2018 Still quite astounded that Trump is the President of one of the most prominent countries in the world after all the allegations against him, both now and pre-president era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 25 July 2018 Share Posted 25 July 2018 https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1021851618466308097?s=21 "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 25 July 2018 Share Posted 25 July 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 25 July 2018 Share Posted 25 July 2018 6 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said: Still quite astounded that Trump is the President of one of the most prominent countries in the world after all the allegations against him, both now and pre-president era.c I couldn't agree more. Don't they have any decent politicians in the U,S.A.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 25 July 2018 Share Posted 25 July 2018 2 minutes ago, Buce said: . Nice one Buce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 25 July 2018 Share Posted 25 July 2018 11 hours ago, Finnegan said: what does Trump ACTUALLY have to do to get booted out? not do what he said he would do to get elected. Unfortunately he is doing nearly all of it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 25 July 2018 Share Posted 25 July 2018 Trump's 'pay with cash' offer on Cohen tape could spell fresh peril for president Longtime fixer is thought to have uniquely sensitive information – and has produced a stark change in the president’s strategy The broadcast on US television on Tuesday night of an audio recording in which Donald Trump appears to advise one of his most trusted lieutenants to use cash to pay off a former Playboy model could indicate new legal hazards ahead for the president, analysts say. Indications over the last month that Trump’s former attorney, Michael Cohen, was seeking a deal to cooperate with federal investigators already looked bad enough for Trump, according to former Trump insiders familiar with Cohen’s role. After a decade of working as Trump’s personal lawyer entrusted with the boss’s most sensitive tasks, Cohen, 51, is thought to have uniquely sensitive information about the flows of money and influence that permeated the Trump Organization from bottom to top. That knowledge extends at a minimum to Trump’s relationships in Russia, where Cohen was working on a Trump Tower project in Moscow, and to multiple alleged extramarital relationships, whose secrecy Cohen was charged with securing. Even before any talk of recordings, it was clear that some of what Cohen knew would be of interest to special counsel Robert Mueller, who is investigating Trump’s Russia ties. But the revelation that Cohen was apparently walking around the 26th floor of Trump Tower during the 2016 presidential campaign with a recording device in his pocket has produced a whiplash change in the White House strategy of dealing with Cohen, and introduced a note of anxiety in Trump’s own tone. “What kind of a lawyer would tape a client?” the president tweeted on Wednesday. “So sad! Is this a first, never heard of it before?” If Cohen’s legal saga by now has the president’s full attention, the focus may not be misplaced, considering the stakes for Trump – and the possibility that more taped conversations with Trump may be out there. Political adviser Sam Nunberg, who worked for Trump for four years and at one time had a close working relationship with Cohen, said that Cohen’s cooperation with prosecutors represented a legal hazard for the president. “I don’t pretend to know what Michael knows,” Nunberg said, but that knowledge plainly extends to the truth behind “rumors and innuendo” about Trump and multiple women as well as the Trump campaign’s contacts with Russian operatives. “Michael has essentially said that Trump is lying about what he knows about the infamous Trump Tower meeting” at which Donald Trump Jr hosted Russians with concealed Kremlin ties in June 2016, Nunberg pointed out. In the audio recording, first obtained by CNN, Cohen is heard to say, “we’ll have to pay”. “Pay with cash,” Trump says. “No, no,” Cohen responds, saying he planned to “open a company for the transfer of all of that info”. Cohen faces potential charges of bank fraud, wire fraud and campaign finance violations in relation to suspicious money flows through a company he set up before the election that was used to pay pornographic film actor Stormy Daniels and potentially others. Mimi Rocah, a former assistant US attorney for the southern district of New York, told MSNBC that “there’s a whole host of crimes that this could be evidence of”, possibly including bank fraud or campaign finance violations. “If Cohen cooperates, this shows people how valuable he can be, because he can interpret conversations like this,” Rocah said. Trump has denied all wrongdoing. Through his spokesman Rudy Giuliani, the former New York City mayor, Trump even made the audio recording a target in his specious war on “fake news”, denying that it captured him floating the idea of paying former Playboy model Karen McDougal with cash. Shortly before the 2016 election, McDougal received a $150,000 payment from the publisher of the National Enquirer, a tabloid run by Trump’s longtime friend David Pecker. The magazine never published the story, in an apparent “catch and kill” exercise. Giuliani said the Trump camp had waived attorney-client privilege that might have protected the conversation between Cohen and Trump from being used in court – although it is not clear that the conversation was protected by such a privilege – and the former mayor insisted the tapes would not hurt the president. “We’re not getting to impeachable offenses,” Nunberg agreed. But Rocah said the conversation could be one brick that prosecutors could use to build a wall of evidence. “From a prosecutor’s perspective, what I hear on this recording is a good piece of evidence in showing that some laws were broken,” she said. The charges he faces have led Cohen to a seeming change of heart about Trump. In an interview with ABC earlier this month, he said: “My wife, my daughter and my son have my first loyalty and always will,” adding: “I put my family and country first.” Nunberg called it a “tragedy”. “It’s also a tragedy because I will tell you that Michael genuinely had an affection for Donald Trump,” he said, “and it’s sad that it’s come to this.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifted*fox Posted 25 July 2018 Share Posted 25 July 2018 Cohen will die in an unfortunate accident rather soon, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 25 July 2018 Share Posted 25 July 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James. Posted 26 July 2018 Share Posted 26 July 2018 15 hours ago, Buce said: Sorry to be a bore and I know it's tongue in cheek but isn't this the sort of thing that helped Trump win in the first place? General disdain for his supporters, tendency to brand people as idiots instead of debate with them, left-wing superiority complex, etc etc. This isn't necessarily targeted at you, more an observation that one of the themes of both Trump's election and Brexit was the way in which large swathes of the respective populations were ignored / treated as thickos for wanting to challenge the status quo. Seems like a risky strategy given where we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 26 July 2018 Share Posted 26 July 2018 53 minutes ago, James. said: Sorry to be a bore and I know it's tongue in cheek but isn't this the sort of thing that helped Trump win in the first place? General disdain for his supporters, tendency to brand people as idiots instead of debate with them, left-wing superiority complex, etc etc. This isn't necessarily targeted at you, more an observation that one of the themes of both Trump's election and Brexit was the way in which large swathes of the respective populations were ignored / treated as thickos for wanting to challenge the status quo. Seems like a risky strategy given where we are now. I see the point you're making - you're not going to engage with people and get them to come round to the lines of thinking you're suggesting by treating them like idiots. However, when a point is pretty much beyond debate and clear (and Trump has actually done an awful lot with that by telling people exactly what he's going to do and removing all ambiguity) folks do get tired with trying to make that point in a reasonable way (and a lot of that has been tried) when a large proportion of those who voted for Trump would not listen to the points mentioned anyway. At a certain point, people will just throw their hands up and turn to insults because there have been one too many incidents of bad faith arguments and refusal to see the obvious (for example, Trump pushing overreliance on coal and oil leading to increased pollution and climate change - a link that is pretty much cast-iron but some folks ignore it because for whatever reason it is beneficial for them personally to do so at the expense of other people and the future). And then there are the ideologues (usually fundie religious) who cannot be reasoned with, have never been able to be reasoned with, desire nothing but control and are never going to be swayed no matter what and best that can be done for everyone is to limit the control they can exert over other people. In a way, it's the same problem inverted. I totally agree that insults aren't going to change peoples minds and just get them to circle the wagons - but at the same time, I can understand the frustration that folks feel when other folks vote for something so obviously against the long-term interest of themselves and/or other people just for the sake of short-term gain. There has to be a better way of engagement, but I'm not quite sure how much simpler "voting for increased pollution and probable increased control over the lives of women and minorities is bad mmkay?" can be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James. Posted 26 July 2018 Share Posted 26 July 2018 I agree that there are groups who are beyond hope but you don't need to win them over to get Trump out at the next election. I am sure there are a significant number of intelligent, open minded and broadly reasonable people who voted for Trump for any number of legitimate reasons. Maybe they are all seriously regretting their decision and have already changed their mind. Then again, if they haven't, calling them idiots might not help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 26 July 2018 Share Posted 26 July 2018 3 minutes ago, James. said: I agree that there are groups who are beyond hope but you don't need to win them over to get Trump out at the next election. I am sure there are a significant number of intelligent, open minded and broadly reasonable people who voted for Trump for any number of legitimate reasons. Maybe they are all seriously regretting their decision and have already changed their mind. Then again, if they haven't, calling them idiots might not help. You're absolutely right that it won't and quite frankly people do have to be able to pick between them and the ideologues as you suggest. I've honestly given up predicting how things are going to play out with US politics from here but I'm hoping the Dems can at least swing the House in their favour come November to at least stop any more Supreme Court nominations going through and they can put up a vaguely decent candidate (Harris springs to mind) come 2020 who will be able to engage with swing voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 26 July 2018 Share Posted 26 July 2018 On 24/07/2018 at 15:31, leicsmac said: Further to a post yesterday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=406KqNDgKuI That is pure Internet gold, right up there with basset hounds running, kids falling over and animals being Jerks. Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choppalcfc Posted 27 July 2018 Share Posted 27 July 2018 (edited) On 25/07/2018 at 20:52, Sharpe's Fox said: not do what he said he would do to get elected. Unfortunately he is doing nearly all of it you must be wrong because majority of democratic presidents have done nothing they said they would and still remained in office, dont matter if people like him or dislike him ,you're correct on the fact he is doing what he said he was going to do Edited 27 July 2018 by Choppalcfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 27 July 2018 Share Posted 27 July 2018 14 hours ago, Choppalcfc said: you must be wrong because majority of democratic presidents have done nothing they said they would and still remained in office, dont matter if people like him or dislike him ,you're correct on the fact he is doing what he said he was going to do 2 Really? I thought that was a rather important element come election day. Anyway, Cohen beginning to spill the beans. Trump ignoring it while playing the economics line - which is pretty good for him (the only thing) right now so long as it lasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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