President Trump & the USA

[leicsmac]

8 hours ago, MattP said:

It doesn't though really does it? I'm sure they all deep down realise it, some just don't care, don't want to lose votes or just won't do anything to jeopardise the standing of the nation and give political power to China.

 

I've got a bad feeling the Democrats election line for 2020 is going to be something along the lines of "vote for us or you're all going to die".

....and these things aren't stupidly ignorant, short-sighted and self-destructive given the context and therefore not smart because....?

 

If there is an actual easily explicable reason choosing to ignore climate issues rather than seek to tackle them is a sensible thing to do then I'd love to hear it.

 

I do hope the Dems have more to their bow than climate stuff in 2020, but it does need to be addressed - ignoring it isn't going to make it go away.

 

7 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Well, this is sad.

Sandy Hook still lingers...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sandy-hook-father-dies-apparent-suicide-jeremy-richman-newtown-connecticut-2019-03-25/

Tragic...such awful things often have so many knock-on effects.

[MC Prussian]

Remember the water scandal in Flint, Michigan?

In early 2014, instead of using water from Lake Huron and Detroit River to flush the pipes, the city opted for lead-contaminated Flint River as its source. This was based on the decision to cut costs, as the city had entered the state of financial emergency.

In the process, the authorities failed to apply corrosion inhibitors.

 

As a consequence, tap water has become undrinkable, needs to be filtered still, and pretty much straight after, the source switch, people in the area who are drinking it are still complaining about getting rashes, having memory loss, getting headaches, insomnia, tooth loss, cancer.

It's a major health concern. There was also an outbreak of Legionnaires' disease in the area.

 

Flint is a city dominated by Democrats, demonstrated by the current and previous mayor, under whose rules the crisis developed and is still ongoing.

According to initial test results in 2016, a quarter of all households have been affected. Flint is also a poor city with a substantial African American population.

The are allegations that the recent test results, claiming the contamination being below the critical level, have been doctored.

But then-Senator Snyder is also involved in the scandal, as it was the Department of Environmental Quality applying and overseeing the source switch.

https://www.wlns.com/news/michigan/former-gov-snyder-can-be-sued-for-flint-water-scandal/1893029617

 

@Detroit Blues: What's your take on Flint?

 

Other cities with similar problems: Pittsburgh (Democrat mayor), Milwaukee (Democrat mayor), Detroit (Democrat mayor), Newark (Democrat mayor), Washington DC (Democrat mayor), Brady TX , Baltimore (Democrat mayor), Dos Palos CA (Democrat mayor), Charleston SC (Democrat mayor) and Newburgh NY (Democrat mayor):

https://www.businessinsider.com/cities-worst-tap-water-us-2019-3?r=US&IR=T#the-city-of-newburgh-in-upstate-new-york-declared-a-state-of-emergency-over-contaminated-water-11

Edited 18 April 2019 by MC Prussian

[MC Prussian]

Bernie Sanders can beat Trump in 2020.

 

The question is: Will he be able to succeed Trump?

Bernie turns 79 in 2020. Which would make him the oldest US president ever should he win the election. The average age for a 1st term  US president is around 50.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, MC Prussian said:

Bernie Sanders can beat Trump in 2020.

 

The question is: Will he be able to succeed Trump?

Bernie turns 79 in 2020. Which would make him the oldest US president ever should he win the election. The average age for a 1st term  US president is around 50.

The age is certainly a concern, yes.

 

Perhaps the younger guns should be looking at his platform, seeing that he can beat Trump and adjusting accordingly.

[Guest MattP]

It would be absolutely hilarious to be honest if Bernie became President.

 

Just imagine the state of the place after he had finished.

[Buce]

19 minutes ago, MattP said:

It would be absolutely hilarious to be honest if Bernie became President.

 

Just imagine the state of the place after he had finished.

 

 

After Trump, the bar is set pretty low.

[Detroit Blues]

3 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Remember the water scandal in Flint, Michigan?

In early 2014, instead of using water from Lake Huron and Detroit River to flush the pipes, the city opted for lead-contaminated Flint River as its source. This was based on the decision to cut costs, as the city had entered the state of financial emergency.

 In the process, the authorities failed to apply corrosion inhibitors.

 

 As a consequence, tap water has become undrinkable, needs to be filtered still, and pretty much straight after, the source switch, people in the area who are drinking it are still complaining about getting rashes, having memory loss, getting headaches, insomnia, tooth loss, cancer.

 It's a major health concern. There was also an outbreak of Legionnaires' disease in the area.

 

Flint is a city dominated by Democrats, demonstrated by the current and previous mayor, under whose rules the crisis developed and is still ongoing.

According to initial test results in 2016, a quarter of all households have been affected. Flint is also a poor city with a substantial African American population.

The are allegations that the recent test results, claiming the contamination being below the critical level, have been doctored.

But then-Senator Snyder is also involved in the scandal, as it was the Department of Environmental Quality applying and overseeing the source switch.

https://www.wlns.com/news/michigan/former-gov-snyder-can-be-sued-for-flint-water-scandal/1893029617

 

@Detroit Blues: What's your take on Flint?

 

Other cities with similar problems: Pittsburgh (Democrat mayor), Milwaukee (Democrat mayor), Detroit (Democrat mayor), Newark (Democrat mayor), Washington DC (Democrat mayor), Brady TX , Baltimore (Democrat mayor), Dos Palos CA (Democrat mayor), Charleston SC (Democrat mayor) and Newburgh NY (Democrat mayor):

https://www.businessinsider.com/cities-worst-tap-water-us-2019-3?r=US&IR=T#the-city-of-newburgh-in-upstate-new-york-declared-a-state-of-emergency-over-contaminated-water-11

 

In the 1960s/1970s Flint was a city of almost 200k residents. General Motors employed almost half the city, paying good union wages and providing a middle class living for blue collar workers. In the 1980s times were tough for GM, and they closed most of the plants. Today, GM only employs about 8,000 people in the City of Flint, and the population has declined to less than 100,000. With that massive decline in population, the tax base has drastically reduced, leading to huge financial problems.

 

At the same time, Detroit was having similar issues to Flint. Detroit, although much larger suffered a huge population decline (2M to less than 700k). Lack of taxes, massive government corruption, etc. led to Detroit going through bankruptcy. 

 

Rick Synder was Governor of Michigan at the time, and although he was Republican, he actually had a pretty solid reputation among moderates and liberals. In order to solve the financial crisis of both cities, he appointed emergency financial managers to clean up the mess. Opponents claimed that appointing financial managers to rule over the cities violated basic democratic principals of self-governance. These managers we're not elected, and they reported only to the Governor. They were brought in to drastically reduced the city's budget, cut cost, laid off city workers, etc.

 

One of the cost cutting measures for the City of Flint was changing their water source. Up until recently, Flint got its water from the City of Detroit. Flint had access to its own water, and the city decided to change the water source in order to cut cost. The problem is that water from the Flint River leached the lead that was in the pipes. The lack of scientific and engineering investigation to ensure the flint water would be safe AFTER going through the pipes was criminally negligent. To make matters worse, all levels of government were hesitant to admit the mistake and try and warn city residents. 

 

City residents were told that the water was fine to use. Then they were told that it was fine as long as you boiled the water. Finally, people found out that they were drinking toxic levels of lead that could lead to horrible health problems like Legionaries disease. Politically, there was plenty of finger pointing between the city council, the emergency manager and the Governor.  In my opinion, there's plenty of blame to go around. 

 

For a brief period of time there was a massive outpouring of support. People, on their own accord, were driving trucks full of water bottles from Detroit to Flint to pass out to the residents. Celebrities were raising money and awareness. We even had a town hall debate in Flint between Hilary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. Both candidates promised to fix the problem. Unfortunately, after the presidential election, everyone kind of forgot about the city of Flint. The city is slowly replacing the lead pipes, and some areas have access to clean drinking water, but many people still rely on donated bottled water.

 

As to your larger question. Most urban areas in America are run by Democrats, and most rural areas are run by Republicans. This is mainly due to the demographics living in those areas. So it is hard to say what types of problems stem from differing types of governance. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest MattP]

Special counsel concludes no collusion with Trump and Russia. 

 

The US media have so much to answer for - no one should forget the role they have played in this when trust in totally lost in the press, very sad.

[MC Prussian]

52 minutes ago, Detroit Blues said:

 

In the 1960s/1970s Flint was a city of almost 200k residents. General Motors employed almost half the city, paying good union wages and providing a middle class living for blue collar workers. In the 1980s times were tough for GM, and they closed most of the plants. Today, GM only employs about 8,000 people in the City of Flint, and the population has declined to less than 100,000. With that massive decline in population, the tax base has drastically reduced, leading to huge financial problems.

 

At the same time, Detroit was having similar issues to Flint. Detroit, although much larger suffered a huge population decline (2M to less than 700k). Lack of taxes, massive government corruption, etc. led to Detroit going through bankruptcy. 

 

Rick Synder was Governor of Michigan at the time, and although he was Republican, he actually had a pretty solid reputation among moderates and liberals. In order to solve the financial crisis of both cities, he appointed emergency financial managers to clean up the mess. Opponents claimed that appointing financial managers to rule over the cities violated basic democratic principals of self-governance. These managers we're not elected, and they reported only to the Governor. They were brought in to drastically reduced the city's budget, cut cost, laid off city workers, etc.

 

One of the cost cutting measures for the City of Flint was changing their water source. Up until recently, Flint got its water from the City of Detroit. Flint had access to its own water, and the city decided to change the water source in order to cut cost. The problem is that water from the Flint River leached the lead that was in the pipes. The lack of scientific and engineering investigation to ensure the flint water would be safe AFTER going through the pipes was criminally negligent. To make matters worse, all levels of government were hesitant to admit the mistake and try and warn city residents. 

 

City residents were told that the water was fine to use. Then they were told that it was fine as long as you boiled the water. Finally, people found out that they were drinking toxic levels of lead that could lead to horrible health problems like Legionaries disease. Politically, there was plenty of finger pointing between the city council, the emergency manager and the Governor.  In my opinion, there's plenty of blame to go around. 

 

For a brief period of time there was a massive outpouring of support. People, on their own accord, were driving trucks full of water bottles from Detroit to Flint to pass out to the residents. Celebrities were raising money and awareness. We even had a town hall debate in Flint between Hilary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. Both candidates promised to fix the problem. Unfortunately, after the presidential election, everyone kind of forgot about the city of Flint. The city is slowly replacing the lead pipes, and some areas have access to clean drinking water, but many people still rely on donated bottled water.

 

As to your larger question. Most urban areas in America are run by Democrats, and most rural areas are run by Republicans. This is mainly due to the demographics living in those areas. So it is hard to say what types of problems stem from differing types of governance. 

Thanks for the context.

I still can't get my head around how a great country like the US can be so far behind in many infrastructural areas (housing, roads, bridges, water, public transportation, etc.). So desolate all across the place.

Such a shame about Flint, and I wonder why Obama didn't declare a state of emergency or went for more drastic governmental measures in order to force Michigan and Flint to go after the problem quicker and more efficient. The recent discovery of tampering with evidence leaves a bad taste behind.

 

My last paragraph was circling around the Business Insider piece featuring eleven major cities with similar water issues as does Flint.

I'm well aware that Democrats run many, if not most major cities.

 

The question is: How come the same people's party, the party for the poor, uneducated, left behind, marginalized, discriminated against can be fond of running a sewage/water recycling/water supply system that denies so many people of a human right (fresh water) and/or even endangers them by exposing them to unnecessary, but potentially lethal health risks?

This isn't something that's been going on for a few months now, this has years of history.

Reeks of incompetence.

[leicsmac]

19 minutes ago, MattP said:

Special counsel concludes no collusion with Trump and Russia. 

 

The US media have so much to answer for - no one should forget the role they have played in this when trust in totally lost in the press, very sad.

If DJT likes his Game of Thrones metaphors so much, he should understand that the White Walkers (that being a force of nature beyond him or anyone else) are coming for him and his and his ignorance isn't going to save him from them.

[Buce]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Special counsel concludes no collusion with Trump and Russia. 

 

The US media have so much to answer for - no one should forget the role they have played in this when trust in totally lost in the press, very sad.

 

It's not quite as it's being spun:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/apr/18/mueller-report-release-donald-trump-latest-news-live-updates-analysis-key-points?page=with:block-5cb8962d8f08c89bd906425a#block-5cb8962d8f08c89bd906425a

 

In his introduction to the second part of his report, on obstruction of justice, Robert Mueller goes much further than attorney general Bill Barr has suggested and points to serious wrongdoing on Trump’s part that could amount to criminal activity.

Mueller states that had his team concluded that the president had committed no crime, they would have said so. Instead, Mueller writes:

"Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment."

There’s more trouble for Trump in the next sentence. Mueller alludes to having found “evidence about the president’s actions and intent” that “prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred”. Mueller adds:

“Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him.”

Edited 18 April 2019 by Buce

[Detroit Blues]

2 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Thanks for the context.

 I still can't get my head around how a great country like the US can be so far behind in many infrastructural areas (housing, roads, bridges, water, public transportation, etc.). So desolate all across the place.

 Such a shame about Flint, and I wonder why Obama didn't declare a state of emergency or went for more drastic governmental measures in order to force Michigan and Flint to go after the problem quicker and more efficient. The recent discovery of tampering with evidence leaves a bad taste behind.

  

My last paragraph was circling around the Business Insider piece featuring eleven major cities with similar water issues as does Flint.

I'm well aware that Democrats run many, if not most major cities.

 

The question is: How come the same people's party, the party for the poor, uneducated, left behind, marginalized, discriminated against can be fond of running a sewage/water recycling/water supply system that denies so many people of a human right (fresh water) and/or even endangers them by exposing them to unnecessary, but potentially lethal health risks?

This isn't something that's been going on for a few months now, this has years of history.

Reeks of incompetence.

 

" I still can't get my head around how a great country like the US can be so far behind in many infrastructural areas (housing, roads, bridges, water, public transportation, etc.). So desolate all across the place"

Agreed. One of the big issues is that the US is ****ing massive in scale. For example, Michigan, by itself, is larger in surface area than England. However, Michigan has a significantly smaller population. Basic services like roads, sewage, water, etc. get more costly and are less efficient than areas with higher population densities. Another reason our infrastructure sucks, is because we pay very little in tax in comparison to other western countries. So the amount of money used for infrastructure is less per capita. 

 

" Such a shame about Flint, and I wonder why Obama didn't declare a state of emergency or went for more drastic governmental measures in order to force Michigan and Flint to go after the problem quicker and more efficient. The recent discovery of tampering with evidence leaves a bad taste behind."

It took a long time for Michigan to acknowledge the problem. Once Rick Snyder declared it a state of emergency, Obama was quick to declare it a federal emergency and direct FEMA dollars towards it. The issue here is the denial of a problem, and possible cover up.

 

My opinion - Flint/Detroit are prominent rust belt cities. We're far from the coasts, so we're easy to forget. If this problem happened in New York City or LA, it would still be front page news. For the most part, we are often ignored and largely forgotten. Perhaps it's the same in the Midlands (compared to issues in London)? 

 

"The question is: How come the same people's party, the party for the poor, uneducated, left behind, marginalized, discriminated against can be fond of running a sewage/water recycling/water supply system that denies so many people of a human right (fresh water) and/or even endangers them by exposing them to unnecessary, but potentially lethal health risks?

This isn't something that's been going on for a few months now, this has years of history.

Reeks of incompetence."

 

 Most citizens lack the educational background (particularly science) to truly understand complex issues like water sources and treatment. 

 

I do not live in Flint, so I'll mainly speak from the Detroit stand point -

Local politics, particularly in these cities barely resembles typical party politics. Districts are so gerrymandered that there is no Republican presence in Detroit. City council members are voted in because of their family name. Most have been in power for decades and win in landslide elections. The "real" election is during the primary. Most of the local politicians are corrupt, incompetent, or both. They see politics as a way to line their own pockets. 

 

People in Detroit got so fed up with the status quo, that they did the unthinkable, and elected a white mayor. The City of Detroit is overwhelming black, and racially segregated, yet he is wildly popular because he committed himself to restoring basic things to the city. For instance, getting all the street lights to work. The new Governor of Michigan's biggest campaign issue was fixing the roads (I could start a whole separate topic about the quality, or lack thereof, of our roads). So although it may seem like they are voting for the same people, because they are electing people from the same party, residents are passionate about fixing our broken infrastructure. 

 

 

 

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48000774

 

Man, if you want to do that kind of stuff just fill out an application for ICE, I'm sure they're always recruiting.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47996476

 

....and a different kind of vigilantism.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48017275

 

I'd like to be optimistic, but given the current makeup of the Supreme Court I can only see that this is an opportunity for them to bury anti-workplace discrimination laws for LGBT folks...that they will of course take.

[MC Prussian]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48017275

 

I'd like to be optimistic, but given the current makeup of the Supreme Court I can only see that this is an opportunity for them to bury anti-workplace discrimination laws for LGBT folks...that they will of course take.

One of the cases has been continued and brought forward by the family of a gay skydiving instructor who died five years ago in Switzerland:

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/donald-zarda-man-center-major-gay-rights-case-never-got-n852846

 

Nobody should be discriminated against based on their sexual orientation, this one is a special case because the person in question can no longer argue or defend himself.

 

Wonder how that one will pan out. Just because the Supreme Court is 5-4 in the Republican's favour doesn't mean they can't be open to LGBT rights.

Two of the cases have already passed Circuit Court level, so one can still be optimistic.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

One of the cases has been continued and brought forward by the family of a gay skydiving instructor who died five years ago in Switzerland:

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/donald-zarda-man-center-major-gay-rights-case-never-got-n852846

 

Nobody should be discriminated against based on their sexual orientation, this one is a special case because the person in question can no longer argue or defend himself.

 

Wonder how that one will pan out. Just because the Supreme Court is 5-4 in the Republican's favour doesn't mean they can't be open to LGBT rights.

Two of the cases have already passed Circuit Court level, so one can still be optimistic.

Much obliged for the extra info!

 

I'd like to share the same hope, but though judges at circuit court level might be sympathetic I don't see either Gorsuch or Kauvanagh in particular giving a ruling in favour of such rights given their past record. Much easier for them to affirm the status quo and give a nod to those who back them who think similarly and got them into the SC in the first place.

 

I'd very much like to be wrong, though.

[MC Prussian]

5 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Much obliged for the extra info!

 

I'd like to share the same hope, but though judges at circuit court level might be sympathetic I don't see either Gorsuch or Kauvanagh in particular giving a ruling in favour of such rights given their past record. Much easier for them to affirm the status quo and give a nod to those who back them who think similarly and got them into the SC in the first place.

 

I'd very much like to be wrong, though.

No quarrels about gay or bisexual rights, transgender issues are a slightly different subject, as it becomes much more medical (transgenderism is regarded as a weak version of a mental illness by the American Psychological Association, for example).

Suicide attempt rates among the Transgender are also exorbitantly high - close to 40% in some cases:

https://medium.com/@notCursedE/dear-benshapiro-re-trans-suicides-be483052d97f

[leicsmac]

41 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

No quarrels about gay or bisexual rights, transgender issues are a slightly different subject, as it becomes much more medical (transgenderism is regarded as a weak version of a mental illness by the American Psychological Association, for example).

Suicide attempt rates among the Transgender are also exorbitantly high - close to 40% in some cases:

https://medium.com/@notCursedE/dear-benshapiro-re-trans-suicides-be483052d97f

No disagreement that it's in the DSM-V, which IMO is all the more reason for more care to be focused on it, just like there isn't enough focus on other neural atypicalities. And - oddly enough - the thing that tends to stop that dysphoria and suicidal feelings that accompany it is actually transitioning (notwithstanding the the adverse effects caused by judgemental pricks in family, friend groups and out in the wider world deriding you as a freak consistently, which is a factor too).

 

In any case, I believe these cases will cover all aspects of identity on such matters, like I said, I just hope I'm wrong.

[MC Prussian]

Following the recent CNN town hall with a handful of the Democratic candidates, here's a few of their respective new slogans:

 

"Even terrible people have a right to vote, including prisoners and terrorists" (Bernie Sanders)

"I've never believed in Communism or Socialism (except when I did back in the 70ies)". (Bernie Sanders)

"I think we should have that conversation" (Kamala Harris)

"16-year olds should have the right to vote" (Kamala Harris)

"Voting for Sanders is like voting for Trump, it's all about disappointment." (Pete Buttigieg)

"We're trying to run a non-traditional vote, so what do I care if you can't see my program points on my website?" (Pete Buttigieg)

"I know bait when I see it." (Pete Buttigieg)

"I'm really glad you asked about social security (but I'm not going to answer your question).  (Elizabeth Warren)

"I'm willing to take on that fight." (Eliizabeth Warren)

"It's a problem we have to handle." (Elizabeth Warren)

"I'm a strong supporter of the Green New Deal (even though it's completely bonkers)." (Elizabeth Warren)

 

All these platitudes, and CNN did go VERY soft on almost all candidates, bar maybe Bernie.

Edited 23 April 2019 by MC Prussian

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48028773

 

Just so you know where this administration stands on women out in the wider world as well as in the US.

[leicsmac]

https://www.huffpost.com/highline/article/parkland/

 

A remarkable and evenhanded (if long) article about events in Parkland after the shooting there, and how politics influenced where the blame was made to lie.

[Buce]

 

I was reading a hiking journal from 2016 this morning and came across this passage:

 

"I've been following the election coverage with a kind of fascinated horror, but I have faith that my American brothers and sisters won't elect a lying, racist, sexist, xenophobic, tax-evading, climate change-denying demagogue who sexually harasses women and then brags about 'grabbing their pussies'..."

 

Famous last words, eh.

[Guest MattP]

Biden announces he's running, could be two old blokes who are bit "touchy" going up against each other next year

 

Assuming Bernie doesn't die it looks between him and Joe for the Democratic nomination on polling.

[MC Prussian]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

I was reading a hiking journal from 2016 this morning and came across this passage:

 

"I've been following the election coverage with a kind of fascinated horror, but I have faith that my American brothers and sisters won't elect a lying, racist, sexist, xenophobic, tax-evading, climate change-denying demagogue who sexually harasses women and then brags about 'grabbing their pussies'..."

 

Famous last words, eh.

Well, he was up against a self-obsessed liar and fraud with ties to Russia and who ponders to minorities.

 

In the end, it was the choice between cholera and the bubonic plague.

[Nick]

Joe Biden in the running now for the US Presidency and will challenge Trump in 2020.