President Trump & the USA

[Carl the Llama]

I'm glad to see the usual suspects crying "creep!" at Biden. You're absolutely correct it's downright odd behaviour.  This is how everyone else has been feeling about Trump's penchant for rapey behaviour for years, you know, the behaviour you've been making excuses for. Thanks for finally catching up.

[Guest MattP]

17 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

I'm glad to see the usual suspects crying "creep!" at Biden. You're absolutely correct it's downright odd behaviour.  This is how everyone else has been feeling about Trump's penchant for rapey behaviour for years, you know, the behaviour you've been making excuses for. Thanks for finally catching up.

Has any Trump supporter on here defended his behaviour on it? I don't think they have

 

Don't recall Trump touching up children either?

Edited 29 April 2019 by MattP

[Buce]

20 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

I'm glad to see the usual suspects crying "creep!" at Biden. You're absolutely correct it's downright odd behaviour.  This is how everyone else has been feeling about Trump's penchant for rapey behaviour for years, you know, the behaviour you've been making excuses for. Thanks for finally catching up.

 

But... but... the economy. 

[Carl the Llama]

17 minutes ago, MattP said:

Has any Trump supporter on here defended his behaviour on it? I don't think they have

 

Don't recall Trump touching up children either?

Unfortunately the discussions about Trump groping women and talking about wanting to bang his daughter took place in this thread's precursor so there's no way of going back to clarify what exactly was said by who, but yes his behaviour was definitely downplayed.  Does it only count as inappropriate when kids are involved?  That's a mighty fine loophole.

[Jattdogg]

2 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Unfortunately the discussions about Trump groping women and talking about wanting to bang his daughter took place in this thread's precursor so there's no way of going back to clarify what exactly was said by who, but yes his behaviour was definitely downplayed.  Does it only count as inappropriate when kids are involved?  That's a mighty fine loophole.

Grab em by the pu$$y. Nothing wrong with that. No explaining to a daughter is needed on why thats okay for a leader of a country to say. Boys being boys right! Locker room banter.

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

Has any Trump supporter on here defended his behaviour on it? I don't think they have

 

Don't recall Trump touching up children either?

It isn't that they're defending such behaviour, it's that they dismissed it as unimportant, which is hypocritical in this case.

[leicsmac]

5 hours ago, Buce said:

 

But... but... the economy. 

It's like pieces of paper, metal and numbers on a screen are somehow the only important thing.

 

Facetious, I know, but there surely needs to be more positive arguments for this administration than just economics (even if that is in fact the case for most people) - hearing some would be nice.

[leicsmac]

In other news, interesting news digest from stateside today:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48098362

 

Yes, the concerns are probably valid...but why exactly is the security apparatus of the US at the present time any more trustworthy than the Chinese - just because they've left the UK alone up until now?

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48100665

 

White House revolving door spins again.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48100431

 

Yeah, that's going to calm things right down. FFS.

 

Glad he was caught.

[Guest MattP]

5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

It isn't that they're defending such behaviour, it's that they dismissed it as unimportant, which is hypocritical in this case.

It's going to be interesting if Biden wins to see if all of sudden some people don't mind someone being elected like that.

[leicsmac]

30 minutes ago, MattP said:

It's going to be interesting if Biden wins to see if all of sudden some people don't mind someone being elected like that.

For that reason among many others, I hope he gets nowhere near.

[MC Prussian]

15 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Unfortunately the discussions about Trump groping women and talking about wanting to bang his daughter took place in this thread's precursor so there's no way of going back to clarify what exactly was said by who, but yes his behaviour was definitely downplayed.  Does it only count as inappropriate when kids are involved?  That's a mighty fine loophole.

Both acts are inappropriate, but certainly moreso in the case of children. They cannot defend and/or articulate themselves properly, unless they have been conditioned to do so at an early age.

 

Also part of the blame is on the parents who let this thing happen in the first place - and US culture. Biden has been taped being Weird Uncle Joe on numerous occasions, yet grown-ups continue to hand over their kids to the creepy guy out of lust for fame and a bit of publicity, which is a bit of a US-specific issue that is unfortunately slowly but steadily creeping into Europe also.

So, either the parents are hypocrites or it's not as much of a big deal to them. Or both.

 

As for the Trump remarks in 2005, technically he was still a Democrat back then.

https://www.bustle.com/p/was-donald-trump-a-democrat-the-republican-president-has-a-complicated-political-history-8934344

And why the whole affair didn't come out earlier remains a mystery. Well, some might say the timing of the release was deliberate.

 

Are we going to hold every comment made by men aimed at women against the former? Again, this seems to be a part of a movement that has a very weird ideological stance, digging out comments from years ago or even earlier in order to humiliate public figures. If you take this thought a bit further, you could say we're looking at a future in which everyone has to be VERY careful what is said in order to avoid defamation and/or getting slaughtered in public. This is by no means a defense of Trump's statements. Just sayin'.

[Carl the Llama]

19 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Both acts are inappropriate, but certainly moreso in the case of children. They cannot defend and/or articulate themselves properly, unless they have been conditioned to do so at an early age.

 

Also part of the blame is on the parents who let this thing happen in the first place - and US culture. Biden has been taped being Weird Uncle Joe on numerous occasions, yet grown-ups continue to hand over their kids to the creepy guy out of lust for fame and a bit of publicity, which is a bit of a US-specific issue that is unfortunately slowly but steadily creeping into Europe also.

So, either the parents are hypocrites or it's not as much of a big deal to them. Or both.

 

As for the Trump remarks in 2005, technically he was still a Democrat back then.

https://www.bustle.com/p/was-donald-trump-a-democrat-the-republican-president-has-a-complicated-political-history-8934344

And why the whole affair didn't come out earlier remains a mystery. Well, some might say the timing of the release was deliberate.

 

Are we going to hold every comment made by men aimed at women against the former? Again, this seems to be a part of a movement that has a very weird ideological stance, digging out comments from years ago or even earlier in order to humiliate public figures. If you take this thought a bit further, you could say we're looking at a future in which everyone has to be VERY careful what is said in order to avoid defamation and/or getting slaughtered in public. This is by no means a defense of Trump's statements. Just sayin'.

You're never defending but always just saying... Weird that.  

 

We're not talking about Hamza's teenage tweets, we're talking about things said and, more importantly, done as an adult. To give an extreme example should a man be pardoned for murder if the crime isn't revealed until x years later? Of course not. Why is this different other than in severity of malfeasance?  If you think it's a sign of dystopian thinking that people ought to be careful when bragging about inappropriate, even illegal behaviour then I can't disagree more strongly.

[MC Prussian]

6 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

You're never defending but always just saying... Weird that.  

 

We're not talking about Hamza's teenage tweets, we're talking about things said and, more importantly, done as an adult. To give an extreme example should a man be pardoned for murder if the crime isn't revealed until x years later? Of course not. Why is this different other than in severity of malfeasance?  If you think it's a sign of dystopian thinking that people ought to be careful when bragging about inappropriate, even illegal behaviour then I can't disagree more strongly.

I thought in Trump's case, the biggest outrage was against something he SAID in 2005, not something he did or did not do.

 

Why is it so difficult to approach different situations with a bit of nuance and context?

17 out of 19 allegations of sexual misconduct regarding Trump only came up after he campaigned for President. Coincidence? Yes, his behaviour was highly likely inappropriate - and offensive to some. But we don't know all the stories completely, we are being served a public image.

In addition, how about we criticize women for getting themselves into these kind of situations for a change? How about a bit of prevention?

You seem to be blowing into the same horn all the time, I'm saying life isn't as simple as the media or some people want to make it out to be.

 

And yes, you ought to be wary of what you say online and in public because there's enough examples of people getting shut down for even the most minor offense.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html

Like a limerick that references female body parts? Await investigation...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6636383/Twitter-user-investigated-police-posting-poem-social-media-site.html

Who decides what is "offensive" or "harmful"? Where do you set the limit?

Maybe I'm just exaggerating, I just find some of what's happening on Facebook or Twitter these days a bit scary. Because there's enough examples of people on the left calling for censorship, only to be subject to censorship themselves. Isn't it ironic?

 

[Guest MattP]

8 hours ago, leicsmac said:

For that reason among many others, I hope he gets nowhere near.

If this poll is anywhere close, he's about home already.

 

https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/04/30/politics/cnn-poll-2020-biden-announcement-bounce/index.html

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, MattP said:

If this poll is anywhere close, he's about home already.

 

https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/04/30/politics/cnn-poll-2020-biden-announcement-bounce/index.html

538.com tells a similar story, but there's over a year to go yet - a long way.

 

It would be an act of the most rampant stupidity if he were to get the nomination but at least yourself, Prussian and a few select others on here could knock back a couple and relax safe in the knowledge your guy was going to get four more years.

[Carl the Llama]

1 hour ago, MC Prussian said:

I thought in Trump's case, the biggest outrage was against something he SAID in 2005, not something he did or did not do.

 

Why is it so difficult to approach different situations with a bit of nuance and context?

17 out of 19 allegations of sexual misconduct regarding Trump only came up after he campaigned for President. Coincidence? Yes, his behaviour was highly likely inappropriate - and offensive to some. But we don't know all the stories completely, we are being served a public image.

In addition, how about we criticize women for getting themselves into these kind of situations for a change? How about a bit of prevention?

You seem to be blowing into the same horn all the time, I'm saying life isn't as simple as the media or some people want to make it out to be.

 

And yes, you ought to be wary of what you say online and in public because there's enough examples of people getting shut down for even the most minor offense.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html

Like a limerick that references female body parts? Await investigation...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6636383/Twitter-user-investigated-police-posting-poem-social-media-site.html

Who decides what is "offensive" or "harmful"? Where do you set the limit?

Maybe I'm just exaggerating, I just find some of what's happening on Facebook or Twitter these days a bit scary. Because there's enough examples of people on the left calling for censorship, only to be subject to censorship themselves. Isn't it ironic?

 

How old was he in 2005? What was it that he said he got away with doing?

 

As for Twitter police, I'm 100% against spurious charges being brought against people for quoting rap lyrics or making obvious jokes, I think it's disgraceful. What does it have to do with what we were initially discussing?

[Guest MattP]

51 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

538.com tells a similar story, but there's over a year to go yet - a long way.

 

It would be an act of the most rampant stupidity if he were to get the nomination but at least yourself, Prussian and a few select others on here could knock back a couple and relax safe in the knowledge your guy was going to get four more years.

Despite his creepinees, I'd be more likely to vote for Biden than any other Democrat candidate.

 

When you look at the policy program of Warren cancelling student debt or the even more crazy economics of the GND - the Democrats could be just one selection away from destroying the party for some time and gaining only the votes of minorities, students and radicals for the forseeable future. If Biden can wrestle the party back from the fiscal crazy types like AOC and the antisemites like Omar I think he could win. 

 

They might not say it, but I'll bet you the Trump team fear Biden more than any of the others names mentioned maybe aside from Harris.

[Buce]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

538.com tells a similar story, but there's over a year to go yet - a long way.

 

It would be an act of the most rampant stupidity if he were to get the nomination but at least yourself, Prussian and a few select others on here could knock back a couple and relax safe in the knowledge your guy was going to get four more years.

 

 

I think they'd be more likely to knock out a couple.

 

As Carl says, "never defending but always 'just saying'... "

 

 

Edited 30 April 2019 by Buce

[Guest MattP]

33 minutes ago, Buce said:

I think they'd be more likely to knock out a couple.

 

As Carl says, "never defending but always 'just saying'... 

It's a good job somebody is. Just imagine the state of the public discourse around Trump if a few people weren't going to try and add a bit of balance. 

 

Go back 50 odd pages on here and you had a unanimous conclusion he was guilty of collusion with Russia and off to prison - I don't blame the people for it mind, they just are incapable of questioning the media now when it comes to Trump.

[MC Prussian]

14 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

How old was he in 2005? What was it that he said he got away with doing?

 

As for Twitter police, I'm 100% against spurious charges being brought against people for quoting rap lyrics or making obvious jokes, I think it's disgraceful. What does it have to do with what we were initially discussing?

Look, I'm perfectly fine for people to criticize Trump for his condescending behaviour and attitude towards women. Yet... it takes two to tango. I would like a more open debate on what women can do in order not to get lost in these precarious situations any longer - but then again, my bet is some, if not many (but of course not all) women do this for a purpose in order to advance in life, seeking promotion, limelight, fame. They are far from being innocent or pure "victims" themselves.

 

Any woman that is being or has been harassed ought to step forward immediately, and not wait 15, 20 or even more years before breaking the silence. The longer you wait, the less likely it is anything can be proven in your favour.

 

In that regard, I'd claim that the media and many of these women were merely opportunists, and I also bet the Democratic party had its fair share of influence. Of course, it's all political.

Calling his behaviour a "masterclass in rape culture" (Grauniad) is way over the top.

 

As in most cases involving sexual misconduct, it's usually one word against the other, and as far as I know, none of the alleged incidents involving Trump has been proven or led to a trial, let alone an official verdict.

 

[MC Prussian]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

538.com tells a similar story, but there's over a year to go yet - a long way.

 

It would be an act of the most rampant stupidity if he were to get the nomination but at least yourself, Prussian and a few select others on here could knock back a couple and relax safe in the knowledge your guy was going to get four more years.

Hahaha.

 

I'm by no means a fan of Donald Trump, I'm mostly baffled by the stupidity on the left in the US and their ongoing quarrels. The Democrats are destroying themselves, allowing Trump another four years, without him having to do anything amazing at all. He can just stand there and watch from the sidelines how the Democratic establishment fights with the radical wing within.

Few of the nominees fill me with confidence, and these courageous few will be the first to have to bite the bullet and quit.

I remember the mudslinging in the 2016 elections, and what you can say is that a majority of US citizens simply had enough of the status quo and being represented by technocrats.

They had enough of Clinton and were longing for something, somebody different.

 

Trump is a walking parody of a president, albeit an amusing, slightly naive and harmless one. But he loves it. He loves the attention, the adoration, the masses. As long as he gets the cheers, he won't do much harm.

The media and the Democrats are still getting their knickers in a twist and still cannot believe they have come to this. Maybe at the end of his presidency, they will finally come to their senses again.

[Lionator]

Venezuela:

 

What do we want? Democracy.

How do we want it? US-backed Military Coup.

[Guest MattP]

5 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Venezuela:

 

What do we want? Democracy.

How do we want it? US-backed Military Coup.

I think they just want to start being able to eat again tbh.

 

Why just mention the USA as well? The EU and most of South America has also called on Maduro to go - that just makes the point you are making look like anti-Americanism.

Edited 30 April 2019 by MattP

[Lionator]

2 minutes ago, MattP said:

I think they just want to start being able to eat again tbh.

 

Why just mention the USA as well? The EU and most of South America has also called on Maduro to go - that just thing just makes the point you are making look like anti-Americanism.

It's the America thread! The Maduro regime is also a disgrace. I think neither side are covering themselves in glory. The problem with America is that whenever they intervene, chaos ensues as they have hidden motives. If anything, if it wasn't for Trump, they'd probably already be in Caracas by now. Fortunately he doesn't seem to be as thirsty for war as his predecessors. 

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Lionator said:

It's the America thread! The Maduro regime is also a disgrace. I think neither side are covering themselves in glory. The problem with America is that whenever they intervene, chaos ensues as they have hidden motives. If anything, if it wasn't for Trump, they'd probably already be in Caracas by now. Fortunately he doesn't seem to be as thirsty for war as his predecessors. 

1

 

I disagree - he just isn't as careless with American lives; so he backs the Saudis to fight Iran in Yemen and arms the Kurds to fight IS. And let's not forget, it was only wassaname's disobedience that prevented an assassination attempt on Assad. He's rattled the sabre pretty hard at Korea and Iran too.