leicsmac Posted 26 March 2019 Share Posted 26 March 2019 4 hours ago, MC Prussian said: Stormy Daniels' lawyer Michael Avenatti charged with fraud (among other crimes): https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/25/politics/michael-avenatti/index.html Trump Curse strikes again. Good grief. Is there actually a single person in the entirety of this whole mess that isn't corrupt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 26 March 2019 Share Posted 26 March 2019 7 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Good grief. Is there actually a single person in the entirety of this whole mess that isn't corrupt? Donald Trump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 26 March 2019 Share Posted 26 March 2019 34 minutes ago, Jattdogg said: His reelection campaign is not even working right now and he is scoring yuge. Bigly. It couldn't have gone better. I still wouldn't have voted for him in 2016 and I still cringe at the way he totally demeans the office he holds. Whether he deserves to win next year is still up for debate, the media and the Democrats certainly deserve four more years of him though for the way they have behaved. For that reason alone I would be tempted to vote for him next year. They'll never learn otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 26 March 2019 Share Posted 26 March 2019 6 minutes ago, MattP said: Donald Trump Sorry, the question wasn't "Is there actually a single person in the entirety of this whole mess that is corrupt but is totally honest about it, not like the others, so that's ok"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inckley fox Posted 26 March 2019 Share Posted 26 March 2019 1 hour ago, MattP said: It couldn't have gone better. I still wouldn't have voted for him in 2016 and I still cringe at the way he totally demeans the office he holds. Whether he deserves to win next year is still up for debate, the media and the Democrats certainly deserve four more years of him though for the way they have behaved. For that reason alone I would be tempted to vote for him next year. They'll never learn otherwise. Personally I couldn't ever bring myself to vote for him, but I understand why people did and have never felt the need to dismiss those people as dumb. The Democrats, like mainstream 'progressive' parties over the world, have seriously lost their way. They have dug themselves a hole over recent years with the narrow range of issues they've covered. Their fear to tackle environmental issues deprives them of a moral one-up on Trump, and their failure to achieve anything for the working classes, or social mobility, has created a scenario where populist governments have pulled the rug from under the feet of progressives all over the world - to the extent that, in the short term at least, they've actually done more than most of their predecessors. In the meantime, as much as we may support many of the individual ideologies they attach themselves to - whether it's abortion, stem cell research, less stringent border controls, globalism, the championing of 'identity politics' - they aren't topics which unify people. I'm surprised the left and centre haven't looked inwards a little more over the past few years and focused on how they can speak to more people. Instead they seem to dig in with the 'we aim high' approach, which seems to mean either 'we're going to beat the same drums which failed to win support in the past, but even harder' or 'we're going to take a moral high ground over populist leaders'. Again, I personally agree with a lot of these individual viewpoints, but if you haven't got a unified, coherent philosophy, and one which speaks to all, you'll sink. You might agree with the reparations argument, or the MeToo agenda - and you might be right to - but those can also be divisive issues. Hysterically or not, middle class and poor class white people, and many men, feel isolated by these arguments, and often understandably, because the rhetoric isn't especially inclusive. In short, I believe Trump will either win a second term or come close enough to make his exit a controversial one because the focus has been on discrediting and defeating the man, rather than winning the arguments against him. There were plenty of people warning about this, especially while the economy remains strong, but it seems it was more important for people to focus on what a terrible person he was, rather than serious alternatives to his actions. When the guy turns out to be, in terms of corruption at least, a less terrible person than you thought he was, the whole thing falls apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 27 March 2019 Share Posted 27 March 2019 Jussie Smollett appears to be on a one man crusade to destroy the myth of white privilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 27 March 2019 Share Posted 27 March 2019 19 minutes ago, MattP said: Jussie Smollett appears to be on a one man crusade to destroy the myth of white privilege. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47711535 Just to get folks up to speed if they aren't already. Two thoughts, tbh: firstly the Chicago plod thought they could charge him with a hoax, then suddenly the prosecutor's office decided they couldn't - what changed and what actually happened, I wonder? And secondly, I'm not sure anyone said that black folks with good legal teams and some cash to throw around can't tie things in knots, that doesn't mean it's not easier for white folks with similar resources to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 27 March 2019 Share Posted 27 March 2019 18 hours ago, inckley fox said: Personally I couldn't ever bring myself to vote for him, but I understand why people did and have never felt the need to dismiss those people as dumb. The Democrats, like mainstream 'progressive' parties over the world, have seriously lost their way. They have dug themselves a hole over recent years with the narrow range of issues they've covered. Their fear to tackle environmental issues deprives them of a moral one-up on Trump, and their failure to achieve anything for the working classes, or social mobility, has created a scenario where populist governments have pulled the rug from under the feet of progressives all over the world - to the extent that, in the short term at least, they've actually done more than most of their predecessors. In the meantime, as much as we may support many of the individual ideologies they attach themselves to - whether it's abortion, stem cell research, less stringent border controls, globalism, the championing of 'identity politics' - they aren't topics which unify people. I'm surprised the left and centre haven't looked inwards a little more over the past few years and focused on how they can speak to more people. Instead they seem to dig in with the 'we aim high' approach, which seems to mean either 'we're going to beat the same drums which failed to win support in the past, but even harder' or 'we're going to take a moral high ground over populist leaders'. Again, I personally agree with a lot of these individual viewpoints, but if you haven't got a unified, coherent philosophy, and one which speaks to all, you'll sink. You might agree with the reparations argument, or the MeToo agenda - and you might be right to - but those can also be divisive issues. Hysterically or not, middle class and poor class white people, and many men, feel isolated by these arguments, and often understandably, because the rhetoric isn't especially inclusive. In short, I believe Trump will either win a second term or come close enough to make his exit a controversial one because the focus has been on discrediting and defeating the man, rather than winning the arguments against him. There were plenty of people warning about this, especially while the economy remains strong, but it seems it was more important for people to focus on what a terrible person he was, rather than serious alternatives to his actions. When the guy turns out to be, in terms of corruption at least, a less terrible person than you thought he was, the whole thing falls apart. He's still highly corrupt, there's no doubting it. Only yesterday there was a story come out about how he tried to lift US sanctions against two Chinese companies who violated original NK sanctions, this sort of event is a weekly occurrence. He won't release his tax statements. There's also the whole Stormy Daniels thing. Just because he didn't directly commit one the worst crimes in US presidential history, doesn't mean he isn't still a massive POS. I hope the US public understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 27 March 2019 Share Posted 27 March 2019 55 minutes ago, leicsmac said: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47711535 Just to get folks up to speed if they aren't already. Two thoughts, tbh: firstly the Chicago plod thought they could charge him with a hoax, then suddenly the prosecutor's office decided they couldn't - what changed and what actually happened, I wonder? And secondly, I'm not sure anyone said that black folks with good legal teams and some cash to throw around can't tie things in knots, that doesn't mean it's not easier for white folks with similar resources to do so. Not particularly been following the case so could be missing something but doesn't it seem odd that the piggies would charge the dude in such a volatile case which is getting national coverage without enough evidence to at least warrant a "full" trial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 27 March 2019 Share Posted 27 March 2019 1 hour ago, leicsmac said: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47711535 Just to get folks up to speed if they aren't already. Two thoughts, tbh: firstly the Chicago plod thought they could charge him with a hoax, then suddenly the prosecutor's office decided they couldn't - what changed and what actually happened, I wonder? Well that's what we could do with finding out. He's given up his money, the prosecutors office says he isn't exonerated, the Chicago police say the hard evidence hasn't even been produced yet and all of a sudden he walks free for what is a serious crime. What is certain is a case like this can't be a misunderstanding. I presume we are now looking for the MAGA guy's who beat him up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jattdogg Posted 27 March 2019 Share Posted 27 March 2019 (edited) Either he is guilty and got off due to a technicality, blowjob, money, privilege or the police somehow f'd it up? Didnt the superintendent go on TV blasting him. It doesnt take a genius to see how that could taint a jury pool of his peers even if it really did look like he got caught. What if there really is an explanation and that he didnt actually do it etc. Im a little surprised because he did leave what 10k on the table. If thats not admittance of guilt then this guy has money to blow and loves his city deeply Good Ol US of A. Shite country strikes again. Note: living in Canada is reason enough for me to be a biased hater against the USA. I dont really hate them but enjoy banter calling them shite because they are. No doot aboot it! Edited 27 March 2019 by Jattdogg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 27 March 2019 Share Posted 27 March 2019 Imagine how guys like Maajid feel seeing this develop....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 27 March 2019 Share Posted 27 March 2019 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47715169 This is getting sodding ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 27 March 2019 Share Posted 27 March 2019 3 hours ago, Innovindil said: Not particularly been following the case so could be missing something but doesn't it seem odd that the piggies would charge the dude in such a volatile case which is getting national coverage without enough evidence to at least warrant a "full" trial? It is odd, no two ways about it. What on Earth happened? 3 hours ago, MattP said: Well that's what we could do with finding out. He's given up his money, the prosecutors office says he isn't exonerated, the Chicago police say the hard evidence hasn't even been produced yet and all of a sudden he walks free for what is a serious crime. What is certain is a case like this can't be a misunderstanding. I presume we are now looking for the MAGA guy's who beat him up? There's a lot going on here that isn't a matter of public record, I think - was there some kind of agreement with the prosecutors office that the plod weren't privy to or something - or maybe this whole thing was a concerted smear by the Chicago PD, the DA office saw it that way and the Chicago PD have to stick to their story by saying what they're saying now? Goodness only knows. 1 hour ago, Innovindil said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47715169 This is getting sodding ridiculous. I would say Darwin will take care of such matters in short order if it wasn't for the fact that many innocents (immunocompromised folks, kids who want to get vaccinated but can't because they need parental permission etc) are going to get caught up in this BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inckley fox Posted 27 March 2019 Share Posted 27 March 2019 5 hours ago, Lionator said: He's still highly corrupt, there's no doubting it. Only yesterday there was a story come out about how he tried to lift US sanctions against two Chinese companies who violated original NK sanctions, this sort of event is a weekly occurrence. He won't release his tax statements. There's also the whole Stormy Daniels thing. Just because he didn't directly commit one the worst crimes in US presidential history, doesn't mean he isn't still a massive POS. I hope the US public understand that. I'm not arguing with that, of course. I can't stand the guy, or his politics. But the truth is that there is a huge difference between the sort of corruption, or underhandedness, or immorality which you're referring to - and which has mired plenty of politicians over the years, of all hues - and the suggestion that he was effectively a traitor, and a puppet for a hostile foreign government. As such, the overwhelming impression now will be of a leader who is a lot less corrupt than previously suspected. If the Democrats keep focusing on the character of Trump, rather than coming up with arguments to counter or rival his politics, they'll most likely lose the next election. I'm not saying that's right, only that they should face up to this reality if they want to win. So counter him with substance. He talks about jobs - so how will they generate the jobs? He talks about civil libertarianism - so which civil liberties will they guarantee? How will they offer a voice not only to 'identity politics', but to that 'forgotten majority' we always hear about? What's the alternative to a wall and what are its advantages? Come up with positive, clear, unifying and combative arguments rather than simply opposition which is as much focused on an individual as it is on his governance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 27 March 2019 Share Posted 27 March 2019 2 minutes ago, inckley fox said: I'm not arguing with that, of course. I can't stand the guy, or his politics. But the truth is that there is a huge difference between the sort of corruption, or underhandedness, or immorality which you're referring to - and which has mired plenty of politicians over the years, of all hues - and the suggestion that he was effectively a traitor, and a puppet for a hostile foreign government. As such, the overwhelming impression now will be of a leader who is a lot less corrupt than previously suspected. If the Democrats keep focusing on the character of Trump, rather than coming up with arguments to counter or rival his politics, they'll most likely lose the next election. I'm not saying that's right, only that they should face up to this reality if they want to win. So counter him with substance. He talks about jobs - so how will they generate the jobs? He talks about civil libertarianism - so which civil liberties will they guarantee? How will they offer a voice not only to 'identity politics', but to that 'forgotten majority' we always hear about? What's the alternative to a wall and what are its advantages? Come up with positive, clear, unifying and combative arguments rather than simply opposition which is as much focused on an individual as it is on his governance. Yep. General scientific policy (outside of NASA) and energy policy/climate change policy in particular would be a good place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 27 March 2019 Share Posted 27 March 2019 1 hour ago, leicsmac said: It is odd, no two ways about it. What on Earth happened? There's a lot going on here that isn't a matter of public record, I think - was there some kind of agreement with the prosecutors office that the plod weren't privy to or something - or maybe this whole thing was a concerted smear by the Chicago PD, the DA office saw it that way and the Chicago PD have to stick to their story by saying what they're saying now? Goodness only knows. Well it needs to be doesn't it? Given the severity of it transparency is of the upmost importance. From the outside it looks absolutely absurd, Michelle Obama's advisor intervening, he still paying a bond and doing CS but also whilst doing that going on a moralistic rant about how he has done nothing wrong. Are we still looking for two racist attackers now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 27 March 2019 Share Posted 27 March 2019 6 hours ago, Innovindil said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47715169 This is getting sodding ridiculous. You just know the antivaxtards are going to start spreading conspiracies about the govt infecting kids as some way of explaining this sudden, unforeseeable outbreak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 28 March 2019 Share Posted 28 March 2019 6 hours ago, Carl the Llama said: You just know the antivaxtards are going to start spreading conspiracies about the govt infecting kids as some way of explaining this sudden, unforeseeable outbreak. ....or deny that there's any correlation at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 28 March 2019 Share Posted 28 March 2019 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47727275 Oh, wow, turns out he is a white nationalist and did this out of hate. Funny that. I thought he was just a mentally disturbed "lone wolf" all along. On a similar tangent... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47728471 Sure FB will catch some flak for this, but at least they're acknowledging that such groups are an active threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 29 March 2019 Share Posted 29 March 2019 On 27/03/2019 at 12:35, leicsmac said: It is odd, no two ways about it. What on Earth happened? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-47744351 Been ordered to pay $130k for the police investigation. This makes less and less sense every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jattdogg Posted 29 March 2019 Share Posted 29 March 2019 2 hours ago, Innovindil said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-47744351 Been ordered to pay $130k for the police investigation. This makes less and less sense every day. The same thing that happened to trump. Guilty as eff but got off. This guy has deep pockets if he can afford mueller Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 29 March 2019 Share Posted 29 March 2019 On 28/03/2019 at 02:38, leicsmac said: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47727275 Oh, wow, turns out he is a white nationalist and did this out of hate. Funny that. I thought he was just a mentally disturbed "lone wolf" all along. On a similar tangent... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47728471 Sure FB will catch some flak for this, but at least they're acknowledging that such groups are an active threat. Fields' case is an example of how many factors come together, making things worse in the process. Grew up without a father (who died before he was born), his grandparents on his mother's side killed in a murder-suicide, then he was diagnosed with schizophrenia, treated for ADHD, bipolar disorder, depression. Guy's literally a walking looney bin, and comes from one heck of a fvcked up family background. The combo with his ultranationalist views created a monster. Could he have been helped earlier? Or is his condition untreatable? How do you deal with such deranged people early on? You can't do a "Minority Report" and prevent crimes before they happen. What he did in Charlottesville is inexcusable. However, I'd also like to point out that tensions rose in part because the initial (extreme) right-wing protest was done on a permit, while the counter-protesters did not have one. Things escalated quickly from thereon, and you have to ask yourself who provoked whom as events unfolded. In addition, things seem to have quieten down quite a bit in the news in that corner. Never heard of similar extreme right-wingers exposing themselves during protests since. 2017/2018 seemed to have been peak years, with hotbeds such as Portland or Seattle. As for the Facebook maneuver, I do hope they are fair and balanced in their approach and ban offensive speak and posts from anarchists, marxists, leftists, socialists and communists also. Twitter has come under similar criticism for their one-sided approach to banning profiles in recent months and years. Their CEO went on a bit of a PR tour to face the music, but it remains to be seen how serious they are about the new implementations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Prussian Posted 29 March 2019 Share Posted 29 March 2019 3 hours ago, Innovindil said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-47744351 Been ordered to pay $130k for the police investigation. This makes less and less sense every day. And if he doesn't pay, Chicago will go after Treble Damages (great word, btw). Smart move by the force. He pays the initial fee and it'll be seen as an admission of guilt. Or he lets it slide and is likely to face a bill in the region of nearly half a million US Dollars, which will hurt. Unless some of his friends in upper circles chip in again... State Attorney Kim Foxx is also about to face an inquiry, as questions arise from a questionable legal procedure she's pushing: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6860071/Smollett-damage-control-laid-bare-internal-email-Kim-Foxx.html https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kimm-foxx-prosecutor-jussie-smollett-michelle-obama-national-district-attorneys-association/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 29 March 2019 Share Posted 29 March 2019 2 hours ago, MC Prussian said: Fields' case is an example of how many factors come together, making things worse in the process. Grew up without a father (who died before he was born), his grandparents on his mother's side killed in a murder-suicide, then he was diagnosed with schizophrenia, treated for ADHD, bipolar disorder, depression. Guy's literally a walking looney bin, and comes from one heck of a fvcked up family background. The combo with his ultranationalist views created a monster. Could he have been helped earlier? Or is his condition untreatable? How do you deal with such deranged people early on? You can't do a "Minority Report" and prevent crimes before they happen. What he did in Charlottesville is inexcusable. However, I'd also like to point out that tensions rose in part because the initial (extreme) right-wing protest was done on a permit, while the counter-protesters did not have one. Things escalated quickly from thereon, and you have to ask yourself who provoked whom as events unfolded. In addition, things seem to have quieten down quite a bit in the news in that corner. Never heard of similar extreme right-wingers exposing themselves during protests since. 2017/2018 seemed to have been peak years, with hotbeds such as Portland or Seattle. As for the Facebook maneuver, I do hope they are fair and balanced in their approach and ban offensive speak and posts from anarchists, marxists, leftists, socialists and communists also. Twitter has come under similar criticism for their one-sided approach to banning profiles in recent months and years. Their CEO went on a bit of a PR tour to face the music, but it remains to be seen how serious they are about the new implementations. "Murdering people for not being Nazi sympathisers is inexcusable... buuuuut here's how it's kind of excusable." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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