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Vacamion

President Trump & the USA

By Vacamion, in General Chat

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48145563

 

The economy is the one string Trump has to his bow, it has always been thus.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-48158876

 

Good - the more uncomfortable this man feels and the sooner he is removed from office the better, as it lessens the damage he can do.

Which makes it even more baffling the Democrats want to move away from that sort of model.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, MattP said:

Which makes it even more baffling the Democrats want to move away from that sort of model.

Not so much IMO. If they're the same on the economy as Trump is, why would those solely interested in the economy vote for them and not him?

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Not so much IMO. If they're the same on the economy as Trump is, why would those solely interested in the economy vote for them and not him?

Because with a normal Democratic candidate they can still have the economic upside and someone who doesn't demean the office of President. 

 

Similar to over here, Jeremy Corbyn is the only thing stopping Labour winning an election yet his supporters don't seem to understand you can have his popular policies without terrorist sympathising Marxist antisemite fronting them.

 

I don't get it - same goes for the Republicans as well.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, MattP said:

Because with a normal Democratic candidate they can still have the economic upside and someone who doesn't demean the office of President. 

 

Similar to over here, Jeremy Corbyn is the only thing stopping Labour winning an election yet his supporters don't seem to understand you can have his popular policies without terrorist sympathising Marxist antisemite fronting them.

 

I don't get it - same goes for the Republicans as well.

Interesting points.

 

I'm now actually curious as to how Hillary and Trump differed on economics, if much. I'm inclined to think that there wasn't an awful lot of difference in their economic policies in 2016 and as such that wasn't much of the reason Trump won, but I'd have to do some digging.

 

I do think whoever ends up challenging him in 2020 might want to take a look at the economic stuff going on now and take notes, but that won't be the only important battlefield of the election - or even the most important one.

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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted

Prosecutors sign statement saying Trump would have been charged with obstruction if he wasn't president

More than 370 former federal prosecutors have signed a statement saying they believe special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation would have resulted in obstruction of justice charges for Donald Trump if he wasn’t the president of the United States.

The statement has been issued on publishing platform Medium this afternoon.

 

But... but... the economy.

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MC Prussian

MC Prussian

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

@MC Prussian - apologies for the direct question, but I have to ask.

 

Given Trump and Pompeos comments yesterday as listed above, is "harmless" still a term that can be attributed to them, you think?

What does proposing new trade routes through the Arctic have to do with climate change?

These are two separate issues. It's not as if Pompeo has created melted ice caps, only then to benefit from it.

 

And what about Trump getting angry on Twitter regarding the disproven Russia Collusion is harmful in any way, shape or form?

He's right in a figurative way of speech when he talks about "two years stolen" from him. Of course, part of it is a snide comment aimed the Dems, the media and the investigators.

 

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MC Prussian

MC Prussian

Posted
Posted (edited)

On the subject of "political theft", turns out Hillary Clinton still has some massive sour grapes with 2016:

The woman is able to blame everybody else for her failures, just not herself.

Edited by MC Prussian
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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

What does proposing new trade routes through the Arctic have to do with climate change?

These are two separate issues. It's not as if Pompeo has created melted ice caps, only then to benefit from it.

 

And what about Trump getting angry on Twitter regarding the disproven Russia Collusion is harmful in any way, shape or form?

He's right in a figurative way of speech when he talks about "two years stolen" from him. Of course, part of it is a snide comment aimed the Dems, the media and the investigators.

 

Thanks for the response.

 

I wasn't aware that being ambivalent about the climate change so that the ice melts and you profit from the result had different consequences for the world than actually being behind the deed yourself and profiting from the results, and as such Pompeos attitude here is not harmful because hey, he's not responsible for it actually happening. I stand corrected. :thumbup:

 

WRT Trump's comments, was there no hint at a look at term limits and there was no subtext there, then?

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Finnegan

Finnegan

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'd love to see a piece of 100% impartial statistical evidence that displayed:

 

% of Trump tweets that state "fact" that are false. 

 

% of Trump tweets that claim something that is fact is "Fake News."

Edited by Finnegan
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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

I'd love to see a piece of 100% impartial statistical evidence that displayed:

 

% of Trump tweets that state "fact" that are false. 

 

% of Trump tweets that claim something that is fact is "Fake News."

 

Not quite what you’re asking, I know, but somewhere in this thread is a link to a website that tracks his provable lies. It was an astonishing amount - in the thousands. 

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Finnegan said:

I'd love to see a piece of 100% impartial statistical evidence that displayed:

 

% of Trump tweets that state "fact" that are false. 

 

% of Trump tweets that claim something that is fact is "Fake News."

It would run into thousands if you did then individually - I remember him making a speech on NATO a couple of years ago that was just a litany of lies regarding spending and the figures he quoted. 

 

It's a shame many in the press (and some of these new Democrat representatives obsessed with him) have been just as bad with the myth peddling (Russia collusion etc), that's helped to enable him to keep doing it.

Edited by MattP
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MC Prussian

MC Prussian

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Thanks for the response.

 

I wasn't aware that being ambivalent about the climate change so that the ice melts and you profit from the result had different consequences for the world than actually being behind the deed yourself and profiting from the results, and as such Pompeos attitude here is not harmful because hey, he's not responsible for it actually happening. I stand corrected. :thumbup:

 

WRT Trump's comments, was there no hint at a look at term limits and there was no subtext there, then?

Climate change is a steady process and with the arctic ice melting it's perfectly feasible to think about trade routes up there. It's way faster than the current routes. Only Canada and/or Greenland/Denmark to deal with instead of a multitude of nations in the Caribbean and Middle America.

Of course, should it all freeze again, the idea will be off the table once more.

 

Again, climate change is a global affair. The US haven't been doing their part to the issue only to propose trade routes up North decades later. It's very simplistic and also far-fetched to conflate the two issues. One is a consequence of the other.

 

With regards to Trump's Tweets, I think you're overly gullible and/or read too much into it.

All I can see is him hitting out at the Democrats, the FBI and the media because of the Russia collusion hysteria.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Climate change is a steady process and with the arctic ice melting it's perfectly feasible to think about trade routes up there. It's way faster than the current routes. Only Canada and/or Greenland/Denmark to deal with instead of a multitude of nations in the Caribbean and Middle America.

Of course, should it all freeze again, the idea will be off the table once more.

 

Again, climate change is a global affair. The US haven't been doing their part to the issue only to propose trade routes up North decades later. It's very simplistic and also far-fetched to conflate the two issues. One is a consequence of the other.

 

With regards to Trump's Tweets, I think you're overly gullible and/or read too much into it.

All I can see is him hitting out at the Democrats, the FBI and the media because of the Russia collusion hysteria.

I'm sorry, but Arctic trade routes are inextricably linked to climate change (and therefore climate change policy) because it is climate change that will cause them to open. A stance on one is implicitly a stance on the other - if you are in favour of those trade routes (as Pompeo seems to be) then you're in favour of the circumstances that allow them to happen, with all that entails.

 

And further to this, from the article:

 

"When asked by ABC on Sunday how he would rank climate change on a list of national security threats, Pompeo said the issue did not qualify."

 

I ask again: is such a stance from the third most powerful man in the US government, symbolic of this administration, harmful or not?

 

 

 

 

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MC Prussian

MC Prussian

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

I'm sorry, but Arctic trade routes are inextricably linked to climate change (and therefore climate change policy) because it is climate change that will cause them to open. A stance on one is implicitly a stance on the other - if you are in favour of those trade routes (as Pompeo seems to be) then you're in favour of the circumstances that allow them to happen, with all that entails.

 

And further to this, from the article:

 

"When asked by ABC on Sunday how he would rank climate change on a list of national security threats, Pompeo said the issue did not qualify."

 

I ask again: is such a stance from the third most powerful man in the US government, symbolic of this administration, harmful or not?

All I'm saying Pompeo is perfectly entitled to his own opinion and the subject of trade routes through the Arctic is centuries old, been proposed by a plethora of statesmen and state officials.

 

The US have all the right to discuss these trade routes for the time being.

 

And I can somewhat see where he comes from when asked about National Security - there are currently more pressing threats to US National Security than climate change.

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Guest MattP

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Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

The refugee crisis caused by political unrest and climate change is going to be the biggest security threat to most countries in the coming years as we fight for fewer resources.

 

The two are linked.

Political unrest is very polite to Bush, Blair, Obama, Sarkozy and Cameron (and a few others). 

 

Political stupidity and recklessness is more accurate. 

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

All I'm saying Pompeo is perfectly entitled to his own opinion and the subject of trade routes through the Arctic is centuries old, been proposed by a plethora of statesmen and state officials.

 

The US have all the right to discuss these trade routes for the time being.

 

And I can somewhat see where he comes from when asked about National Security - there are currently more pressing threats to US National Security than climate change.

Well, that clarifies your stance a little, thank you (though I find the idea of someone considering arctic trade routes and the climate factors that lead to their availability being two completely separate and inconsistent areas of opinion rather absurd).

 

Needless to say I disagree with both Pompeo and yourself when it comes to national security threats, by which I mean threats that actually threaten the fabric of the US as a civilisation - short of an all-out nuclear exchange there is nothing that is at least reasonably possible that is more potentially damaging to US civilisation, global civilisation, all civilisation, than the effects of even a mild global average temperature increase. And that increase is much, much more likely than such an all-out nuclear exchange - especially if people like Pompeo don't stop to actually give it the attention it deserves.

 

But of course those Middle Eastern theocracies and Orewellian fiefdoms dotted here and there around the world are much more dangerous to the US as a country overall and much more worthy of all the money that can be thrown at "defence".

 

 

2 hours ago, MattP said:

Political unrest is very polite to Bush, Blair, Obama, Sarkozy and Cameron (and a few others). 

 

Political stupidity and recklessness is more accurate. 

Just wait and see the extent of the crisis when a big population nation runs short of food and/or water because of the way the Earth is changing.

 

It'll make the political stupidity (and you may well be right to call it that) and the present "crisis" seem like a pleasant memory.

Edited by leicsmac
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