Terrorist attack in Stockholm

[Rincewind]

A westerner may say to a Muslim woman, 'how can you dress so modestly just to please men?' And a Muslim will say to a western woman, how can you dress so scantily just to please men?'

Neither is right or wrong. It is just a choice the woman has made and human rights means allowing them to make that choice. 

[Thracian]

So your natural human rights instincts based on equality and fairness would somehow allow you to go into "negotiations", as you mention, with the likes of people so intolerant as to do things like this?.     http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39548645

 

"Negotiation" is a word that suggests giving ground. What ground would you give and why?  

 

What attacks on the Copts represent to me is the stance of "exclusives" (such as IS and others) against the "inclusives" (who seem to believe everyone is part of the human family, for want of a better summary) and there's only going to be one winner over time on that score because the "inclusives" will always be prepared to give ground and the "exclusives" won't.

 

And that really is the basis of fundamentalist philosophy. Each day and every day the fundamentalists advance their cause or influence in some way due to concessions that are never reciprocated except specifically for short term tactical gain. .  .   

 

The evidence is everywhere to be seen but the "inclusives" either ignore it or don't choose to see it. "Faith in mankind," I suppose but misguided in the world as it stands, without a doubt.  

 

Negotiation should be about give and take when possible but never about concessions that threaten to weaken a nation and make it vulnerable over time.

 

"The Tolerant Brotherhood of Man" is a fine ideal without question, But there's never been the slightest sign it will ever be truly or lastingly realised....as my link so glaringly demonstrates.

 

I wonder, in real practice, how your concept of "human rights, fairness and equality" would stand against mine or anyone else's on here.

 

It really would be fascinating to devise a test to find out.

 

That's not said with any pre-conceptions.

 

I honestly wonder if it's possible to evolve a genuinely fair, tolerant and genderly-equal country where all peoples' human rights are justly protected ad infinitum and no-one gets to dominate or to promote an "exclusive" agenda.  

 

Meanwhile it seems our own attitude to other faiths in the UK remains considerably better than the Coptic Christians have to cope with in Egypt nowadays.

 

It's a grim reflection of modern times.

 

The only Egyptian I ever knew was a diplomat's son called Ahmed Safwat who I played at squash.

 

Safwat has sadly died now, but I never played a more naturally friendly and charming guy.

 

How dramatically the place and people seem to have changed and so much of the world around that ancient place.

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39553079

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Safwat

 

 

 

 

  

[Thracian]

2 hours ago, Rincewind said:

A westerner may say to a Muslim woman, 'how can you dress so modestly just to please men?' And a Muslim will say to a western woman, how can you dress so scantily just to please men?'

Neither is right or wrong. It is just a choice the woman has made and human rights means allowing them to make that choice. 

Both comments would be highly and perhaps erroneously judgemental but I'll accept your intention and ask:   

What right then, would anyone have to be offered residence in our country if they wouldn't offer that free choice? 

Or free choice for a woman to drive a car or to leave home independently and go wherever she  liked?

Or for anyone to follow the faith of their choice or no faith at all?

 

You see my point? If we're really to be a nation which truly defends human rights how can we accept people denying those rights?

This is by no means faith specific. It impacts on many faith concepts.    

And increasingly makes me wonder if our entire system of government is badly founded. 

[Rincewind]

We agree then. Which is why when I see statements like 'They should not dress like that and adapt to our way of life and customs'  they are denying the person the basic human right to choose.

I see  many  women I assume to be Muslim with phones and driving cars and even a few walking alongside women wearing burkahs and veils laughing and chatting to each other.

In parts of America there are schools where some students are afraid to tell their parents that they are atheist for fear of being disowned. So much for the land of the free.

[Webbo]

Quote

 

Two policemen have been killed and two wounded in a shooting incident in central Paris, a police source said. 

A man opened fire on police on Thursday night on the Champs-Élysées and was killed by return fire, a police source told Reuters.

Pierre-Henry Brandet of the French interior ministry said the attacker had driven up to the site of the attack by car. He got out of the car and used an automatic weapon to fire on a police van.

The attacker killed one police officer and seriously wounded two other officers, said Brandet. He tried to fire at others as he ran off before being shot dead by police. One of the injured officers died of his wounds soon after.

The Paris anti-terrorist police are investigating the incident.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/20/paris-shooting-policeman-killed-on-champs-elysees

[Izzy]

Worrying times for our French cousins. They seem to be a prime target for attacks these days. 

[Wymsey]

Goodness sake..

[The Blur]

Sadly,  I do not think it will be much longer until terrorist attacks will become a fairly common occurrence to an extent that we will not start a new thread about it and just merge the news into an existing terrorism thread in General Chat   

[Izzy]

6 minutes ago, The Blur said:

Sadly,  I do not think it will be much longer until terrorist attacks will become a fairly common occurrence to an extent that we will not start a new thread about it and just merge the news into an existing terrorism thread in General Chat   

You know shits bad when we end up with a 'What grinds my terrorist gears' or 'How was your terrorism day?' thread. Sad times...

[Bert]

Was at the Champs Elysees earlier. Not far away currently in our hotel. Knew something had kicked off when loads of army guys appeared from nowhere and sirens blazing everywhere. 

[Strokes]

46 minutes ago, Bert said:

Was at the Champs Elysees earlier. Not far away currently in our hotel. Knew something had kicked off when loads of army guys appeared from nowhere and sirens blazing everywhere. 

Have you told facebook you are safe?

[Bert]

10 hours ago, Strokes said:

Have you told facebook you are safe?

Can't say I have mate