How much longer are we gonna persist with Drinkwater?

[crisp packet]

30 minutes ago, Blodge said:

Absolutely incredible insight here... lets scapegoat Vardy again and blame him for Drinky's horror form because he's not putting in enough 'effort'. 

 

DD had a very poor game against Arsenal, his first touch deserted him, he forgot how to release the ball, and generally had a negative impact on our performance. But apart from the back 4 on Wednesday, it was a pretty poor performance from our forward players all round  

1st post  

welcome to fox talk. 

Football is all about opinions. 

I guess I know yours?

[shen]

Last season and early this season, he would join in the attack and offer support or receive the ball from the defense/Kanté in space and launch balls forward. Now he's being closed down quicker and he's struggling to cope. 

 

He's good at offering himself to teammates, making supporting and overlapping runs and we know he has good and quick passing ability, but he cannot carry the ball. 

This is what we are sorely lacking against teams camped in our half.

 

On Wednesday our forward play became stunted because Mahrez and Drinkwater were well marshalled by Arsenal getting no time to face forward, so they were forced to play back and we subsequently lose the ball. DD needs to find a way to create more space for himself, to anticipate quicker, be on the front foot earlier and adapt his game better depending on our opponents.

That's the 'curse', if you will, of being a central midfielder in this team.

 

 

[Blodge]

1 hour ago, crisp packet said:

1st post  

welcome to fox talk. 

Football is all about opinions. 

I guess I know yours?

I agree it's all about opinions but find it very difficult to see how you can relate Drinkwater's form to Vardy's effort

[themightyfin]

3 hours ago, Lako42 said:

He's been absolute garbage for ages.

 

Anyone who thinks his performance at Arsenal was decent must be on a high dosage of hallucinogenic drugs.

 

The chap has forgotten how to be positive with or without the ball. He never drives into space, he rarely passes a decent forward ball and more often than not gives it away at short distance or thumps it long to nobody.

 

 

I absolutely love DD, I think he was possibly the driving force to the title in the centre, but **** me has he regressed.

 

 

We have a central midfield who are terrified of going over the half way line.

 

 

No wonder Mahrez looks terrible, not one fellow midfielder want to join him up the pitch.

 

 

We need to improve.  

You obviously don't understand that not conceding goals is just as important in a football match than Scoring yourself.

Did you actually watch the game? We played Arsenal Away! It was never going to be a game where we can have a playmaker spraying balls all over the park getting a couple of assists and scoring a couple of goals dominating the game against a side full of world class players.

It was a game where his work off the ball and work when not in possession was always going to be more important.

You obviously are either blind if you did not see him do any of that donkey work or clearly have never played or don't understand football as you never once mentioned this is your comments. 

You speak of driving forward .... playing forward balls ect when this was clearly not our game plan. 

It was a game where we all had to stand together and work really hard for long periods without the ball and everyone to a cause did that. We just fell short in the end. 

Drinkys work effort and performance was too draw I'm frankly fed up with kids coming here slating players in true foxes forum style that know nothing about the game of football.

 

 

[filbertway]

31 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

You obviously don't understand that not conceding goals is just as important in a football match than Scoring yourself.

Did you actually watch the game? We played Arsenal Away! It was never going to be a game where we can have a playmaker spraying balls all over the park getting a couple of assists and scoring a couple of goals dominating the game against a side full of world class players.

It was a game where his work off the ball and work when not in possession was always going to be more important.

You obviously are either blind if you did not see him do any of that donkey work or clearly have never played or don't understand football as you never once mentioned this is your comments. 

You speak of driving forward .... playing forward balls ect when this was clearly not our game plan. 

It was a game where we all had to stand together and work really hard for long periods without the ball and everyone to a cause did that. We just fell short in the end. 

Drinkys work effort and performance was too draw I'm frankly fed up with kids coming here slating players in true foxes forum style that know nothing about the game of football.

We played that game fearing Arsenal's name more than their team, that was the most disappointing thing for me.

 

I could understand these tactics against proper footballing giants with fresh world class players all over the park.

 

This Arsenal team is not that. 

[Col city fan]

1 hour ago, themightyfin said:

You obviously don't understand that not conceding goals is just as important in a football match than Scoring yourself.

Did you actually watch the game? We played Arsenal Away! It was never going to be a game where we can have a playmaker spraying balls all over the park getting a couple of assists and scoring a couple of goals dominating the game against a side full of world class players.

It was a game where his work off the ball and work when not in possession was always going to be more important.

You obviously are either blind if you did not see him do any of that donkey work or clearly have never played or don't understand football as you never once mentioned this is your comments. 

You speak of driving forward .... playing forward balls ect when this was clearly not our game plan. 

It was a game where we all had to stand together and work really hard for long periods without the ball and everyone to a cause did that. We just fell short in the end. 

Drinkys work effort and performance was too draw I'm frankly fed up with kids coming here slating players in true foxes forum style that know nothing about the game of football.

 

 

If your final paragraph is true, you're probably on the wrong forum.

[shen]

3 hours ago, themightyfin said:

Drinkys work effort and performance was too draw I'm frankly fed up with kids coming here slating players in true foxes forum style that know nothing about the game of football.

Don't fall for the hyperbole, that's just a trend of the times. Try instead to focus on the actual points of critique aimed at DD.

 

Personally, I don't think his work rate or even his defensive contribution is being questioned, but you'd expect a central midfielder (a Premier League winning and England capped one no less) to be a bit better at retaining possession and driving his team forward than he has been in recent weeks.

 

[Collibosher70]

kin hell ,

give me an out of form DD over the likes of philpott , coatsworth etc anyday

[Koke]

6 minutes ago, Collibosher70 said:

kin hell ,

give me an out of form DD over the likes of philpott , coatsworth etc anyday

 

And give me an out of form Leo Ulloa over the likes of Elvis Hammond and Mark de Vries but that's not really the point mate.

[Lako42]

3 hours ago, themightyfin said:

You obviously don't understand that not conceding goals is just as important in a football match than Scoring yourself.

Did you actually watch the game? We played Arsenal Away! It was never going to be a game where we can have a playmaker spraying balls all over the park getting a couple of assists and scoring a couple of goals dominating the game against a side full of world class players.

It was a game where his work off the ball and work when not in possession was always going to be more important.

You obviously are either blind if you did not see him do any of that donkey work or clearly have never played or don't understand football as you never once mentioned this is your comments. 

You speak of driving forward .... playing forward balls ect when this was clearly not our game plan. 

It was a game where we all had to stand together and work really hard for long periods without the ball and everyone to a cause did that. We just fell short in the end. 

Drinkys work effort and performance was too draw I'm frankly fed up with kids coming here slating players in true foxes forum style that know nothing about the game of football.

 

 

Complete garbage. Nobody questioned his work rate or effort, try looking at the points made.

 

Arsenal are a fragile shell of a team who have no guts when you actually show an ounce of willingness to give them a game, rather than line up with 2 defences and a striker.

 

Also, I am not talking about the Arsenal game, I'm talking about DD this season, home and away.

 

He's negative regardless of opposition, he is the man we rely on in the middle to be dynamic, not a defensive workhorse.

 

Also probably better to not call people kids just because you don't agree with them, its a bit, well, childish.

 

 

[DennisNedry]

Remember Drinky had a shit season in the Championship - he seems to have runs of form (both good & bad) that lost for long periods.

[themightyfin]

1 hour ago, Lako42 said:

Complete garbage. Nobody questioned his work rate or effort, try looking at the points made.

 

Arsenal are a fragile shell of a team who have no guts when you actually show an ounce of willingness to give them a game, rather than line up with 2 defences and a striker.

 

Also, I am not talking about the Arsenal game, I'm talking about DD this season, home and away.

 

He's negative regardless of opposition, he is the man we rely on in the middle to be dynamic, not a defensive workhorse.

 

Also probably better to not call people kids just because you don't agree with them, its a bit, well, childish.

 

 

Look at your post.Not once did you put any emphasis on the importance of work without the ball. ALL you were taking about us his lack of creativity when that was clearly not the game plan. And for your you to dismiss Arsenal as a fragile shell? Well you clearly have not been watching much football this season. They are in the running contending for a top 4 and we are in a scrape at the bottom. Hardly a game where you expect us to go all guns blazing I think we got tactic SPOT on but just fell short.

The fact you didn't recognise any of the qualities Drinky shows when we don't have the have ball really makes me think you need to go to your under 10s manager for an explanation.

Again my point being stopping the opposition is just as important as scoring goals. 

[WigstonWanderer]

Just a thought....

 

When Benny isn't needed for CB duties is there any chance he could be recycled as a CDM? He seems very confident on the ball and can pick out a pass. If Amartey can do it (sort of) perhaps he could make the switch. Could then give Drinkwater a rest and perhaps give Ndidi more licence to surge forward more.

 

 

[NotTheMarketLeader]

11 hours ago, themightyfin said:

Look at your post.Not once did you put any emphasis on the importance of work without the ball. ALL you were taking about us his lack of creativity when that was clearly not the game plan. And for your you to dismiss Arsenal as a fragile shell? Well you clearly have not been watching much football this season. They are in the running contending for a top 4 and we are in a scrape at the bottom. Hardly a game where you expect us to go all guns blazing I think we got tactic SPOT on but just fell short.

The fact you didn't recognise any of the qualities Drinky shows when we don't have the have ball really makes me think you need to go to your under 10s manager for an explanation.

Again my point being stopping the opposition is just as important as scoring goals. 

I have to get involved here.

 

Your last sentance for me is where the problem lies.

 

This team of ours are at their best when playing to win matches on the front foot whether home or away; admittedly that has not been seen mainly until Shakey took over this season; but he himself said this I think on the eve of the Liverpool game. Something along the lines of 'we are going to go back to basics, and play our own game rather than thinking too much about the opposition'. 

 

When we regained this identity we've again blown reams away in the league more recently.

 

Why oh why do you suddenly decide to change that philosophy when it has worked so well? 

 

It's insane and totally counter productive.

 

My worry is that Shakey has realised HE has some thing to lose (i.e. The managers job) and a defensive mentality has come to the fore as a result. 

 

 

[themightyfin]

1 hour ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

I have to get involved here.

 

Your last sentance for me is where the problem lies.

 

This team of ours are at their best when playing to win matches on the front foot whether home or away; admittedly that has not been seen mainly until Shakey took over this season; but he himself said this I think on the eve of the Liverpool game. Something along the lines of 'we are going to go back to basics, and play our own game rather than thinking too much about the opposition'. 

 

When we regained this identity we've again blown reams away in the league more recently.

 

Why oh why do you suddenly decide to change that philosophy when it has worked so well? 

 

It's insane and totally counter productive.

 

My worry is that Shakey has realised HE has some thing to lose (i.e. The managers job) and a defensive mentality has come to the fore as a result. 

 

 

To suggest that he employed certain tactics for his own personal gain over the club is madness.

Hes been here years and loves the club ....where have you been?

[sm1]

For me the opposition doesn't matter because Drinky's been poor for the past 6 months, with the odd exception. The problem with him is that he can't use the ball well. He either hits long hopeful balls to no one or backwards to our defence, who in turn either hoof it up to nobody or pass to Kasper. His role in the centre of the park is to initiate our attack and he hasn't been able to do it. The problem is that we have nobody else who fits that role, so Drinky is played regardless. Next season we'll hopefully have another more attacking midfielder. Then it will be up to DD to either improve or leave (can't see him sitting on the bench like King).

[NotTheMarketLeader]

1 hour ago, themightyfin said:

To suggest that he employed certain tactics for his own personal gain over the club is madness.

Hes been here years and loves the club ....where have you been?

Im not saying hes certainly doing that on purpose, but this is a big opportunity for him, and as such he has a lot riding on these results and therefore there is added more pressure and stress in a position he has never held before. 

 

It is not, I would suggest as implausible is you seem to think that such stresses would effect decision making. You have only got to to look at the antics Pearson got up to for evidence.

 

And I don't know what your last sentance means. Spell that out for me please.

[themightyfin]

12 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Im not saying hes certainly doing that on purpose, but this is a big opportunity for him, and as such he has a lot riding on these results and therefore there is added more pressure and stress in a position he has never held before. 

 

It is not, I would suggest as implausible is you seem to think that such stresses would effect decision making. You have only got to to look at the antics Pearson got up to for evidence.

 

And I don't know what your last sentance means. Spell that out for me please.

Your quote was was "He has realised he has something to loose...his job" And you then suggest he employed certain tactics because of this realisation.

So your kinda contradicting yourself if you say he's not doing it on purpose as you say in your last comments.

Nothing wrong with backtracking mate when you realise your wrong. It happens to the best of us. Don't worry. 

[NotTheMarketLeader]

17 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

Your quote was was "He has realised he has something to loose...his job" And you then suggest he employed certain tactics because of this realisation.

So your kinda contradicting yourself if you say he's not doing it on purpose as you say in your last comments.

Nothing wrong with backtracking mate when you realise your wrong. It happens to the best of us. Don't worry. 

Sorry not conceding as I'm not contradicting myself, I'm trying to have bit of balance to my argument.

 

I obviously have no idea or his reasons for the tactics employed the other the night.

 

Similarly I didnt understand his decision to bring on Amartey against Madrid with less that 10 minutes to play, when we needed goals. I really don't know what the thought process is there either. Why did he make that substitution to protect a draw there? 

 

That makes no sense, so yes he may have is own agenda he wouldn't be human to not consider what becoming a full time PL manager would mean to him;  he equally may be making wrong decisions under pressure he's not had before.

[themightyfin]

12 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Sorry not conceding as I'm not contradicting myself, I'm trying to have bit of balance to my argument.

 

I obviously have no idea or his reasons for the tactics employed the other the night.

 

Similarly I didnt understand his decision to bring on Amartey against Madrid with less that 10 minutes to play, when we needed goals. I really don't know what the thought process is there either. Why did he make that substitution to protect a draw there? 

 

That makes no sense, so yes he may have is own agenda he wouldn't be human to not consider what becoming a full time PL manager would mean to him;  he equally may be making wrong decisions under pressure he's not had before.

Or he may have saved a side from relegation when we looked doomed?

[NotTheMarketLeader]

13 minutes ago, themightyfin said:

Or he may have saved a side from relegation when we looked doomed?

You've done really well on that front no one can disagree with you there Shakes.

 

Seriously though, all I am saying is he's being more defensive and losing, while when it was shit or bust we were winning.

 

There is a correlation there just like in the Great Escape season. 

[shen]

28 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Sorry not conceding as I'm not contradicting myself, I'm trying to have bit of balance to my argument.

 

I obviously have no idea or his reasons for the tactics employed the other the night.

 

Similarly I didnt understand his decision to bring on Amartey against Madrid with less that 10 minutes to play, when we needed goals. I really don't know what the thought process is there either. Why did he make that substitution to protect a draw there? 

 

That makes no sense, so yes he may have is own agenda he wouldn't be human to not consider what becoming a full time PL manager would mean to him;  he equally may be making wrong decisions under pressure he's not had before.

We were targeting set pieces as our main weapon and Amartey has proven to be a threat at set pieces. At that stage of the game we were throwing constant high balls in to the box. Makes pretty good sense and had the added bonus of not disrupting the formation further. 

[themightyfin]

Just now, NotTheMarketLeader said:

You've done really well on that front no one can disagree with you there Shakes.

 

Seriously though, all I am saying is he's being more defensive and losing, while when it was shit or bust we were winning.

 

There is a correlation there just like in the Great Escape season. 

I suppose he's taking one game at a time. Even the most experienced managers don't always get it right.

Personally I think he had the game plan spot on against Arsenal and we just came up short.

If he had not conceded that unlucky great goal it would have been a great point.

Anyway ! I'm sure you will see a different approach today and yes I concede he's still learning but sometimes naivety can be a good thing. 

[NotTheMarketLeader]

1 hour ago, shen said:

We were targeting set pieces as our main weapon and Amartey has proven to be a threat at set pieces. At that stage of the game we were throwing constant high balls in to the box. Makes pretty good sense and had the added bonus of not disrupting the formation further. 

Not sure how you'd know that!

[shen]

25 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Not sure how you'd know that!

Uhh our players were saying it before the game, the opposition was saying it before the game and we effectively peppered them with high crosses and long throws into the box. We had scored a large percentage of our goals in the CL from dead ball sitations. Not sure how you didn't notice.