What country is the biggest threat to global safety?

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Wookie said:

Russia by far, consistent and lengthy election tampering, annexation, UN security council vetoes, annexations, exploits in Syria, use of a nerve agent in the UK and numerous other issues.

 

US have caused a lot of issues in the past and still continue to do but they're not the biggest threat to global security at all.

 

Erdogan is a right **** and some of his rhetoric is worrying and China's territorial claims causes some grief as well

This is just a sign of your age and how "long" 4 months is.

 

The U.S. are not a threat to global security from a brit's pov maybe but if you were from the east then you'd definitely have them as no.1

 

Erdogan is crazy but there are plenty others that don't get the headlines.

[Countryfox]

The Trumpster  ..  

 

Oh country ! ...    I should have gone to spec savers ...    

[Guest MattP]

Four people actually voted for Israel? Ffs.

 

At the minute it's clearly Russia, last decade they have invaded two countries, annexed part of another and helped along a probable genocide in parts of Syria.

[Guest Kopfkino]

7 minutes ago, MattP said:

Four people actually voted for Israel? Ffs.

 

At the minute it's clearly Russia, last decade they have invaded two countries, annexed part of another and helped along a probable genocide in parts of Syria.

 

Admittedly a slightly different topic but more Labour members think both the US and Israel are more of a force for bad than Iran

 

 

Edited 31 March 2018 by Kopfkino

[Guest MattP]

Not surprised at all by that.

[Wymsey]

Am thinking that as they apparently have good relations with Russia, that China could pose a risk in the future if we budge them the wrong way.

Edited 31 March 2018 by Wymeswold fox

[Chico1958]

OK, it's not a Country, however      

 

Money....................................... be it in Oil, Poverty, Trade Restrictions, You got more than me.

 

And it gives me another chance to post this:

 

 

Closely followed by Religion, Technology which includes AI

 

 

[leicsmac]

Again...it's an idea that's the biggest threat IMO.

 

The idea that we're better than you, and we're going to prove it by controlling you. Whether it's Russia doing overtly right now or the US and China doing it more subtly (in the case of the US, occasionally rather blatantly) the idea is the same, and while that idea exists there's always going to be conflict and the associated threat to world peace, even though statistically things are less violent now than they have ever been in history.

 

Unfortunately, ideas are rather difficult to kill.

[Alf Bentley]

2 hours ago, Chico1958 said:

OK, it's not a Country, however      

 

Money....................................... be it in Oil, Poverty, Trade Restrictions, You got more than me.

 

And it gives me another chance to post this:

 

 

Closely followed by Religion, Technology which includes AI

 

 

 

 

I'll spare you "Religion" by PIL and "Robots" by Kraftwerk. 

[Chico1958]

OK, I'll do it

[Alf Bentley]

4 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Am thinking that as they apparently have good relations with Russia, that China could pose a risk in the future if we budge them the wrong way.

 

Decent point to mention China' future role.

 

Despite its lack of democracy, China doesn't seem to be a global threat now: little political meddling in other countries, token gestures on the military front - and a positive attitude to climate change, it seems.

 

But what about the future?

Within 10-20 years, China will be the biggest economy in the world - with the potential to become an even bigger global power than it already is.

That's a new scenario just around the corner: potentially the world's biggest superpower being an undemocratic one-party state.

And what will their attitude to the wider world be? China already has a big economic stake in Africa. They'll have to find ways of keeping the Chinese people content. Will they flex their muscles?

 

Then there's India rising as a power behind China. Within the lifetime of most people on here, the most important global relationship might be China-India.

[Alf Bentley]

5 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

Admittedly a slightly different topic but more Labour members think both the US and Israel are more of a force for bad than Iran

 

Other ways your data could be presented:

- More Labour members think both the US and Israel are more of a force for good than Iran

- 59% of Labour members think Iran is a force for bad, 34% don't know and only 7% think it a force for good

- Labour members believe that Russia & Saudi Arabia are the main forces for bad, while Sweden & Germany are the main forces for good

 

4 hours ago, MattP said:

Not surprised at all by that.

 

How FT propaganda works:

 

1) Right-wing paper publishes a slanted, anti-Labour interpretation of a survey

2) Right-wing propagandist No. 1 uncritically posts slanted journalism of right-wing paper

3) Right-wing propagandist No. 2 expresses a lack of surprise at Right-wing propagandist No. 1's news that a right-wing paper is criticising the left-wing party

 

[Alf Bentley]

Brilliant!

 

While I diverted onto this thread for 5 mins, LCFC scored twice and had Ndidi sent off. 

[Countryfox]

3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Brilliant!

 

While I diverted onto this thread for 5 mins, LCFC scored twice and had Ndidi sent off. 

 

Every week from now on please Alf ...   

[Alf Bentley]

I'm abstaining from this "threat to global safety" poll...

- Russia seems to be the most aggressive significant power.....but Putin is a nasty bastard, not a madman, so hopefully won't go too far

- USA is still the greatest military power, but generally causes damage in particular regions not globally (though Iraq was a lot of damage).....but it does have a loose cannon as President....hopefully saner people will control him

- Iran and Israel cause danger to their neighbours and some of their own people...but don't act much on a global scale

- Same applies to Saudi, except they're the main ones funding Islamic State, which causes a fair threat globally....though not on the scale of a nuclear war 

- What about North Korea? No direct threat to us, a minor player globally and would be blasted off the face of the earth if it went too far....but what if it managed to nuke LA or Silicon Valley first?! 

- What about Pakistan? An unstable nation prone to authoritarian govts, in possession of nukes, a haven for terrorists and at odds with its powerful neighbour...

 

Thankfully, my attitude to life is to worry about problems when they're imminent or have happened, so I'm quite cheerful about all this 

[Guest Kopfkino]

54 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Other ways your data could be presented:

- More Labour members think both the US and Israel are more of a force for good than Iran

- 59% of Labour members think Iran is a force for bad, 34% don't know and only 7% think it a force for good

- Labour members believe that Russia & Saudi Arabia are the main forces for bad, while Sweden & Germany are the main forces for good

 

 

How FT propaganda works:

 

1) Right-wing paper publishes a slanted, anti-Labour interpretation of a survey

2) Right-wing propagandist No. 1 uncritically posts slanted journalism of right-wing paper

3) Right-wing propagandist No. 2 expresses a lack of surprise at Right-wing propagandist No. 1's news that a right-wing paper is criticising the left-wing party

 

 

Leave off it. You've decided it's propaganda  it's actually interesting data and it makes the Israel votes here seem more normal. I imagine the Iran score isn't far off the general population.

 

Deary me, state of this place when even the better posters are getting their knickers in a twist over nothing.

[Sharpe's Fox]

6 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

Admittedly a slightly different topic but more Labour members think both the US and Israel are more of a force for bad than Iran

 

 

Sad to see many leftists still believing the propaganda that the baddies are that so called axis of evil Russia and Iran (and probably DPRK). All of the people’s of which are driven into the arms of dictators from western sanctions on their goods. Not good hopefully we can help the people of those countries reintegrate into the world economy  

Edited 31 March 2018 by Sharpe's Fox

[Alf Bentley]

17 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

Leave off it. You've decided it's propaganda  it's actually interesting data and it makes the Israel votes here seem more normal. I imagine the Iran score isn't far off the general population.

 

Deary me, state of this place when even the better posters are getting their knickers in a twist over nothing.

 

No knickers twisted, Kopf, just great amusement enjoyed. Interesting if unsurprising data, interesting if unsurprising slant...

 

Anyway, I'm currently suffused in a warm glow of contentment after that LCFC victory (Leicester City, not Labour Communist-Federalist Crusade)....particularly now I've just seen that Everton are 3 down before half-time.

Europa League qualifiers in Moldova and Kazakhstan, here we come....

[leicsmac]

4 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

Leave off it. You've decided it's propaganda  it's actually interesting data and it makes the Israel votes here seem more normal. I imagine the Iran score isn't far off the general population.

 

Deary me, state of this place when even the better posters are getting their knickers in a twist over nothing.

Come on Kopf, you know as well as I that honest numbers can be made to do dishonest work and that's exactly what the Times is doing here.

 

FWIW I think those overall levels of distrust and trust (Russia, US, Iran, Saudi bad, Germany and Sweden good) are about spot on.

[Guest Kopfkino]

33 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Come on Kopf, you know as well as I that honest numbers can be made to do dishonest work and that's exactly what the Times is doing here.

 

FWIW I think those overall levels of distrust and trust (Russia, US, Iran, Saudi bad, Germany and Sweden good) are about spot on.

It's literally a table of % of what answers were given. 

Some of the rest of the poll (the antisemitism in the party bit) is really poor polling.

[leicsmac]

17 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

It's literally a table of % of what answers were given. 

Some of the rest of the poll (the antisemitism in the party bit) is really poor polling.

Right, absolutely - yet the Times spun it in a way that is unbecoming of them IMO, they're normally better reporters than that.

 

My earlier point regarding the idea of aggressive nationalism being the real threat (as opposed to specific nation-states) still stands.

[Webbo]

24 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

It's literally a table of % of what answers were given. 

Some of the rest of the poll (the antisemitism in the party bit) is really poor polling.

Anything slightly critical of labour is automatically a rightwing smear. You should know that by now.

[Guest Kopfkino]

21 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Anything slightly critical of labour is automatically a rightwing smear. You should know that by now.

 

Just wait til they read The Sunday Times. Twitter is going to be a right laugh. (I think they're actually overdoing it with their 'investigation')

 

Still this episode at least proves this weird moral superiority from the left is complete bullshit. 

Edited 31 March 2018 by Kopfkino

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Kopfkino said:

 

Just wait til they read The Sunday Times. Twitter is going to be a right laugh.

 

Still this episode at least proves this weird moral superiority from the left is complete bullshit. 

2

Think we've had this discussion before, but that kind of moral superiority matters if someone thinks morality is objective. Which it isn't, IMO.

 

Also, isn't that something of a strawman?

[Carl the Llama]

44 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Anything slightly critical of labour is automatically a rightwing smear. You should know that by now.

Too right and any criticism of the Tories is just communist propaganda.