Italy Shuts Ports to Migrant Ship

[DennisNedry]

24 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Where you and I would differ is where you start talking about culturally and religiously alien. 

 

I don't particularly give a shit about that, I'd love move to Japan and I assure you I'd be an absolute cultural alien there. 

 

Skilled versus unskilled Labour imports however are a perfectly fair and rational thing tod discuss. Possibly the only thing that should really be discussed when talking immigration if you want to not be a dick about it. 

 

Fair enough but I'd argue that the gulf in culture can be problematic.  I can't speak for the migrants as one homogeneous group but there's certainly cultural norms and attitudes amongst some of them that are worrying, as shown in events like the Cologne New Years sexual assaults. I'm sure if you polled a sample of the recent migrants from Africa and Asia on their views on the legality of homosexuality for example, you'd be disgusted at what you'd find. I dunno, maybe I'm generalising too much.

 

I'm sure Japan would happily have you Finners, even though they are very keen on maintaining their mono-cultural society

[DennisNedry]

6 minutes ago, Samilktray said:

Referring to somebody as a culturally and religiously alien is a bit dehumanising isn't it 

I wouldn't say so, I'd be the same if I went to Syria or Eritrea!

 

I didn't intend that as an insult or to denegrate; how can be not be alien in a society they've never been to? Maybe it's my terminology that's off.

[bovril]

Just now, DennisNedry said:

I wouldn't say so, I'd be the same if I went to Syria or Eritrea!

 

I didn't intend that as an insult or to denegrate; how can be not be alien in a society they've never been to? Maybe it's my terminology that's off.

Nowhere is as 'culturally alien' (agree with Samilktray's post about the term) as you think. I've been to Syria twice (admittedly before the war) and certainly didn't feel like an alien. I also work with Syrians in the UK and they fit in fine on the whole. 

[Smudge]

The answer in the long term is about world investment in industry and agriculture in Africa.

China seems to be committed to certain areas with multi-billion dollar investments.

Edited 12 June 2018 by Smudge

[Redouane]

11 hours ago, DennisNedry said:

Are you referring to colonialism? I don't take credit for this quote but it answers your point expertly I feel:

 

The classic lame excuse of the self-loathing white man. The more recently colonised India, Singapore and Hong Kong seem to be doing fine. Ethiopia and Liberia were not colonised in any significant way and yet are still basket cases. How many decades does it take to rebuild and sort out the problems caused by colonialism (forgetting the benefits such as infrastructure, housing, rail, European engineering and medicine and education)? Japan and Germany have rebuilt themselves from rubble and a decimated population in less time.

 

Edit: I would also think that the humanitarian argument is the only one that holds any sway with me at all, because at the end of the day when you see someone drowning in the Med you'd rather they were saved than not. 

Any argument about socio-economic benefits of the illegal entry of a million plus poor, low skilled, culturally and religiously alien men into the continent is fanciful at best. 

 

Colonialism is part of it, but the problem lies beyond that. How many coup d'etats have there been in sub Saharan Africa in the past 50 years? How many puppet leaders have been put there to take advantage of all the nation's primary resources? 

 

Also, India, really? India is a former great empire way before it was colonize, so its not like they were starting from 0. And Hong Kong? It's technically part of China, so of course it will do fine when there's arguably the most economically powerful country behind it.

 

Whereas Africa has been oppressed since the 1500s, so it never really had a chance to develop. 

 

 

 

[Finnegan]

Plus, let's be honest, anyone that uses the phrase "self loathing white man" is generally always a complete twat. 

[bovril]

59 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Plus, let's be honest, anyone that uses the phrase "self loathing white man" is generally always a complete twat. 

That would make a good thread. 'Phrases for twats'. 

[Buce]

5 minutes ago, bovril said:

That would make a good thread. 'Phrases for twats'. 

 

Top of the list - "we won, get over it".

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

Plus, let's be honest, anyone that uses the phrase "self loathing white man" is generally always a complete twat. 

As well as anyone who unironically uses the phrase "white genocide" outside of South Africa (and even there it's iffy).

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

Plus, let's be honest, anyone that uses the phrase "self loathing white man" is generally always a complete twat. 

I just assume everybody is a complete twat, until they prove otherwise tbh.

I don’t think anyone has yet, I’m still trying.

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

I just assume everybody is a complete twat, until they prove otherwise tbh.

I don’t think anyone has yet, I’m still trying.

 

Twatist.

[Alf Bentley]

26 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I just assume everybody is a complete twat, until they prove otherwise tbh.

I don’t think anyone has yet, I’m still trying.

 

Yep, very trying indeed. 

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

On ‎11‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 19:32, DennisNedry said:

Spain have now agreed to let the ship dock, however is this the start of a series of 'stand offs' between Italian ports and migrant rescue ships?

 

Fair play Salvini, at least he's true to his political message and acting with conviction. 

 

I'm largely behind the decision to be honest. The people on board were sub-Saharan Africans, so purely economic migrants with no right to be in Europe. Italy has been abandoned by the EU and been forced to absorb huge amounts of migrants with little help, they had to stand up for themselves sooner or later. Just a shame the boat wasn't towed back to Libya.

 

What do we think then chaps/chappettes?

Well said. I could not agree more.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

On ‎12‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 09:27, Buce said:

 

So, basically, you're saying let them drown as a warning to others?

Hmm. I suppose that is one way. Rather not go that far though. Just turning them round would be preferable. They are illegals, and as such should not be allowed ashore. Could be a boat load of terrorists for all anyone knows. Illegal, will always mean illegal in my book, no matter what the subject may be.

 

We are sadly living in a harsh world.