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The Politics Thread 2019

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Labour spokespersons are emphasising that Boris cannot be trusted not to move the election date to force a no deal Brexit once a decision to hold one has passed in the house. I suspect they can use this as an excuse not to back a GE and concentrate instead of blocking No Deal.

 

If anyone listened to Blair’s speech yesterday he was saying that if Johnson tries to call an election, Labour should decline. I know he is discredited over his handling of the Iraq war, etc, but I found myself agreeing with pretty much everything he said.

Edited by WigstonWanderer
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1 hour ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Labour spokespersons are emphasising that Boris cannot be trusted not to move the election date to force a no deal Brexit once a decision to hold one has passed in the house. I suspect they can use this as an excuse not to back a GE and concentrate instead of blocking No Deal.

 

If anyone listened to Blair’s speech yesterday he was saying that if Johnson tries to call an election, Labour should decline. I know he is discredited over his handling of the Iraq war, etc, but I found myself agreeing with pretty much everything he said.

The man clearly made a massive massive mistake wrt Iraq but that doesn't mean that everything else he says is tainted, and like you I agree with him on this one.

 

Though TBH Corbyn has painted himself into a corner on this one - if he backs away from a GE he'll be seen as a coward because he's been calling for one for so long, if he does go for it I can't see Labour winning a majority - if anything, I can see Boris getting an increased majority with the implicit help of the Brexit Party, which is exactly what he's going for.

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6 hours ago, Buce said:

 

 

He can't have an election without Labour support.

 

Corbyn's best strategy would be to concentrate on passing the legislation and refuse to give Bozo what he wants because if Bozo fails to leave on Oct 31st it will see the Brexit Party split the Leave vote in any subsequent election. Corbyn just needs to play this smart.

Absolutely agree with this.  Find it hard to believe Corbyn would be so stupid as to play into Boris' hands - but fear he may be.

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Even if a no deal Brexit can be blocked, without a new referendum I can’t see a way out, it just kicks the can further.

 

I wish leavers saying “let’s just get it sorted and move on” would realise that any form of Brexit except perhaps the very softest will mean years, perhaps decades of negotiations on free trade agreements and other issues. It would only be the end of the beginning, not the end or even the beginning of the end. The only way for the nightmare to end is to either stay in the EU or go for an off the shelf, Norway style deal AFAICT.

Edited by WigstonWanderer
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9 hours ago, Buce said:

 

 

He can't have an election without Labour support.

 

Corbyn's best strategy would be to concentrate on passing the legislation and refuse to give Bozo what he wants because if Bozo fails to leave on Oct 31st it will see the Brexit Party split the Leave vote in any subsequent election. Corbyn just needs to play this smart.

Corbyn cannot deny Boris an election now.  He has been asking for one for two years.  Also I’m not actually sure Corbyn wants to be PM, or wants to block Brexit.

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Just now, Jon the Hat said:

Corbyn cannot deny Boris an election now.  He has been asking for one for two years.  Also I’m not actually sure Corbyn wants to be PM, or wants to block Brexit.

 

He can and judging by this morning's news reports, he will.

 

It's the smart play and while Corbyn maybe isn't that smart, fortunately he has advisors who are

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1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

Corbyn cannot deny Boris an election now.  He has been asking for one for two years.  Also I’m not actually sure Corbyn wants to be PM, or wants to block Brexit.

I expect Labour will ensure that a vote in favour of a snap election is conditional - upon removing the prospect of a no-deal Brexit..which of course The Prime Minister will refuse to do. 

 

In the eventuality of an early election in October and Boris losing, he would have the shortest ever tenure of any UK PM - which was previously Canning in 1827 at 119 days.

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Anyone watch rose if the Nazis on BBC 2 last night?

 

I'd love hear brexiteer views on this actual historical show with evidence and facts. Do they see any parallels with what's going on now and how they are complicit?

 

It's never too late to change your views, maybe this TV show is the eye opener you need.

 

Remember we're all in this together whether you fight them or appease them it's still going to be shit.

Edited by Grebfromgrebland
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What we need is a second referendum.  That would be the properly democratic way of sorting brexit out.  Giving people the real options. 

 

JRM once supported the idea, as did Cummins. 

 

They only don't support it now because, as JRM said a couple of days ago "it will reverse the result of the first".

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13 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Corbyn cannot deny Boris an election now.  He has been asking for one for two years.  Also I’m not actually sure Corbyn wants to be PM, or wants to block Brexit.

 

An election is the last thing we need I think. It needs to be a straight in/out referendum that way everyone knows what they're voting for.

 

After the referendum we should go straight for an election.

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3 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Anyone watch rose if the Nazis on BBC 2 last night?

 

I'd love hear brexiteer views on this actual historical show with evidence and facts. Do they see any parallels with what's going on now and how they are complicit?

 

It's never too late to change your views, maybe this TV show is the eye opener you need.

 

Remember we're all in this together whether you fight them or appease them it's still going to be shit.

Is it online anywhere?

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4 minutes ago, HappyHamza said:

What we need is a second referendum.  That would be the properly democratic way of sorting brexit out.  Giving people the real options. 

 

JRM once supported the idea, as did Cummins. 

 

They only don't support it now because, as JRM said a couple of days ago "it will reverse the result of the first".

 

And Farage, who when polls showed Remain narrowly winning said a close result would be 'unfinished business'.

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8 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Anyone watch rose if the Nazis on BBC 2 last night?

 

I'd love hear brexiteer views on this actual historical show with evidence and facts. Do they see any parallels with what's going on now and how they are complicit?

 

It's never too late to change your views, maybe this TV show is the eye opener you need.

 

Remember we're all in this together whether you fight them or appease them it's still going to be shit.

Utterly ridiculous comparison to be honest. Offensive as well.

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11 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Anyone watch rose if the Nazis on BBC 2 last night?

 

I'd love hear brexiteer views on this actual historical show with evidence and facts. Do they see any parallels with what's going on now and how they are complicit?

 

It's never too late to change your views, maybe this TV show is the eye opener you need.

 

Remember we're all in this together whether you fight them or appease them it's still going to be shit.

 

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Utterly ridiculous comparison to be honest. Offensive as well.

 

It's not completely without Parallel, Jon, but I'd say there is a better comparison with the conditions just before the Spanish Civil War.

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19 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

He can and judging by this morning's news reports, he will.

 

It's the smart play and while Corbyn maybe isn't that smart, fortunately he has advisors who are

Maybe.  In which case I expect the government will block this proposed legislation.  I don’t believe it is right that the opposition can force the governments hand without allowing an election.  Especially given they all voted for article 50, and had the chance to vote for the withdrawal agreement three times, and to choose a way forward and failed to do so.

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Just now, Buce said:

 

 

It's not completely without Parallel, Jon, but I'd say there is a better comparison with the conditions just before the Spanish Civil War.

And a hundred other political situations which resulted in no such outcomes.

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Just now, Jon the Hat said:

Maybe.  In which case I expect the government will block this proposed legislation.  I don’t believe it is right that the opposition can force the governments hand without allowing an election.  Especially given they all voted for article 50, and had the chance to vote for the withdrawal agreement three times, and to choose a way forward and failed to do so.

 

Which would be illegal, never mind undemocratic.

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Just now, Jon the Hat said:

And a hundred other political situations which resulted in no such outcomes.

 

I'm not suggesting the same outcome, Jon, these are different times, thankfully, but it's interesting from a historical perspective.

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4 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Which would be illegal, never mind undemocratic.

I don’t believe the PM is legally required to ask fo royal assent to legislation proposed by the opposition.  Technically Boris could probably add 200 lords on Friday to block it as well. 

And I don’t see that parliament is designed for parties not in government to force legislation - there must be a GE.

 

Edited by Jon the Hat

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2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I don’t believe the PM is legally required to ask fo royal assent to legislation proposed by the opposition.  Technically Boris could probably add 200 lords on Friday to block it as well. 

 

 

The possibility has been discussed over the last few days, Jon, and the best legal opinion seems to be that he cannot do as you are suggesting.

 

We will see.

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