Brendan Rodgers

[LCFCJohn]

31 minutes ago, Skid_1884 said:

Another ‘Rodgers In’ post with extensive detail and supporting evidence as to why he should keep his job.

This is the thing. I’m all for different opinions and views and it’s a forum after all. But the arguments to ‘Rodgers In’ are basically the following;

 

- Who instead - erm a whole world of managers and besides, it’s genuinely a case of anyone being better than Rodgers now, his cycle has expired, it happens. That’s not even a dig at him personally or managerial ability.

 

- Careful what you wish for - what does this even mean? 
 

- He won the FA cup you know - Yes ok, he played a part. For the record the most credit I think he gets is respecting the competition from the start which is far enough. Iheanacho dragged us there with his goals and a Youro special and Kasper masterclass won the final. 

 

- The whole club is a mess, it’s not all down to Rodgers - True, nobody even the most Rodgers out are saying otherwise. Rodgers is a huge issue though and an easy one to fix. The rest can be sorted alongside/follow on.

 

- We were in League One in 2009 you know - Ok……

 

Not sure if I have missed any!

[Guest bennytwohats]

6 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

This is the thing. I’m all for different opinions and views and it’s a forum after all. But the arguments to ‘Rodgers In’ are basically the following;

 

- Who instead - erm a whole world of managers and besides, it’s genuinely a case of anyone being better than Rodgers now, his cycle has expired, it happens. That’s not even a dig at him personally or managerial ability.

 

- Careful what you wish for - what does this even mean? 
 

- He won the FA cup you know - Yes ok, he played a part. For the record the most credit I think he gets is respecting the competition from the start which is far enough. Iheanacho dragged us there with his goals and a Youro special and Kasper masterclass won the final. 

 

- The whole club is a mess, it’s not all down to Rodgers - True, nobody even the most Rodgers out are saying otherwise. Rodgers is a huge issue though and an easy one to fix. The rest can be sorted alongside/follow on.

 

- We were in League One in 2009 you know - Ok……

 

Not sure if I have missed any!

For me the argument for Rogers is that under his tenure we’ve played some of the best football I’ve seen at the club. If we can get back to that then we have a very high ceiling under him. A lot of people don’t want to acknowledge that, and the vitriol towards him is overblown.

 

The problem is that under his tenure we’ve also played some of the worst football I’ve seen at the club, and the ‘if’ in if we can get back to the good stuff looks more unlikely as the days go by. So I totally get the want for Rogers out and something to be freshened up, which is where I have been leaning more recently.

 

My own views aside it seems to be clear we are sticking with him. I’ve been in the ‘something needs to change’ camp, and with transfers looking unlikely until recently then good reason for it to be Rogers. Now it looks like we are getting a few new faces in (which look to be the right type for transfer for us), I think there is some reason for optimism. I guess time will tell and I’ll be supporting either way

[dobbylcfc]

28 minutes ago, bennytwohats said:

For me the argument for Rogers is that under his tenure we’ve played some of the best football I’ve seen at the club. If we can get back to that then we have a very high ceiling under him. A lot of people don’t want to acknowledge that, and the vitriol towards him is overblown.

 

The problem is that under his tenure we’ve also played some of the worst football I’ve seen at the club, and the ‘if’ in if we can get back to the good stuff looks more unlikely as the days go by. 
 

 

IMHO we haven’t played the as you say some of the best football for 1 1/2 to 2 yrs. Ever since that bloody Covid party we’ve played no where near that. The IN brigade always throw the Fa cup community shield in our face but the reality is we were battered In both and as others have said it was youris wonder strike ect. I honestly think this is as far as he can take us and we need a manager that’ll give us fresh ideas and not a so called magician that has only 1 way of working. 

[Guest bennytwohats]

13 minutes ago, dobbylcfc said:

 

IMHO we haven’t played the as you say some of the best football for 1 1/2 to 2 yrs. Ever since that bloody Covid party we’ve played no where near that. The IN brigade always throw the Fa cup community shield in our face but the reality is we were battered In both and as others have said it was youris wonder strike ect. I honestly think this is as far as he can take us and we need a manager that’ll give us fresh ideas and not a so called magician that has only 1 way of working. 

I'd agree in part. FA cup came at a time where we were already in decline. But go back 6 months prior to that and the football was glorious - why are people so eager to erase that part of the story? However you talk about the IN brigade throwing things in faces and that sort of talk is divisive and just gets in the way of any sort of constructive debate on the subject. 'So called magician' - a lot of this sort of shit - can you elaborate? Has he ever claimed to be a magician, or is this the kind of made up stuff on here that people use to beat him up with? Why do you credit the success to the players but credit the bad things to the manager?

 

It's these constant double standards that I find frustrating. And to reiterate, I am also mostly in the camp that I think Rodgers should go, and we'd benefit from a new manager. I'd just rather have a sensible debate on the subject than the mudslinging and pitchforks that this thread has descended into,

Edited 25 January 2023 by bennytwohats

[LCFCJohn]

7 minutes ago, bennytwohats said:

I'd agree in part. FA cup came at a time where we were already in decline. But go back 6 months prior to that and the football was glorious. However you talk about the IN brigade throwing things in faces and that sort of talk is divisive and just gets in the way of any sort of constructive debate on the subject. 'So called magician' - a lot of this sort of shit - can you elaborate? Has he ever claimed to be a magician, or is this the kind of made up stuff on here that people use to beat him up with? Why do you credit the success to the players but credit the bad things to the manager?

 

It's these constant double standards that I find frustrating. And to reiterate, I am also mostly in the camp that I think Rodgers should go, and we'd benefit from a new manager. I'd just rather have a sensible debate on the subject than the mudslinging and pitchforks that this thread has descended into,

I think he claimed not to be a magician recently but never known him claim the opposite 

 

In terms of crediting the players in that final, as I said above, he played strong sides and respected the competition which is where he gets credit. In the FA cup final though, it was the wonder goal, wonder saves and the fact Chilwell hadn’t cut his toenails that we survived. Before that goal was ruled out we were screwed as all out attacking threat had been taken off so it was all eggs in the hold out basket. Had that goal stood, we lose that in extra time.

Edited 25 January 2023 by LCFCJohn

[LCFCJohn]

52 minutes ago, bennytwohats said:

For me the argument for Rogers is that under his tenure we’ve played some of the best football I’ve seen at the club. If we can get back to that then we have a very high ceiling under him. A lot of people don’t want to acknowledge that, and the vitriol towards him is overblown.

 

The problem is that under his tenure we’ve also played some of the worst football I’ve seen at the club, and the ‘if’ in if we can get back to the good stuff looks more unlikely as the days go by. So I totally get the want for Rogers out and something to be freshened up, which is where I have been leaning more recently.

 

My own views aside it seems to be clear we are sticking with him. I’ve been in the ‘something needs to change’ camp, and with transfers looking unlikely until recently then good reason for it to be Rogers. Now it looks like we are getting a few new faces in (which look to be the right type for transfer for us), I think there is some reason for optimism. I guess time will tell and I’ll be supporting either way

Fair enough, I appreciate any points that are outside the ones with no substance as the ones I listed are.

 

I think a lot of people are probably in your mindset. I suppose people lose faith at different times and speeds. 
 

I suppose, and this is not meant as a dig or anything, but perhaps you are just holding onto what was, the really good spell, longer than others have. 
 

A lot of it for me is how he is spiralling in interviews and his negative persona. That is why I have long since known he won’t turn it round. If he had wanted to and was positive and engaged with his future being at the club, I reckon he could have turned it round, maybe not to the level of the best football we have seen. 

[Guest bennytwohats]

3 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

I think he claimed not to be a magician recently but never known him claim the opposite 

 

In terms of crediting the players in that final, as I said above, he played strong sides and respected the competition which is where he gets credit. In the FA cup final though, it was the wonder goal, wonder saved and the fact Chilwell hasn’t cut his toenails that we survived. Before that goal was ruled out we were screwed as all out attacking threat had been taken off so it was all eggs in the hold out basket. Had that goal stood, we lose that in extra time.

But the goal didn't stand, and we did win. I just find it a bit backwards to say we can't give the manager credit because if things had panned out differently we wouldn't have won. Fact is we did win, despite being underdogs. Shouldn't we be hailing it as a resilient success? Who's to say that if we didn't set up shop we wouldn't have lost that in normal time?

 

And back to the double standards point, players individual errors here are constantly dismissed and put on the coaching and the setup etc. Again, to be clear, I am not saying those arguments are entirely without merit - but we can't apply one logic to our wins, and another logic to our losses and expect to come out with sensible conclusions, it's just not how it works.

[LCFCJohn]

10 minutes ago, bennytwohats said:

But the goal didn't stand, and we did win. I just find it a bit backwards to say we can't give the manager credit because if things had panned out differently we wouldn't have won. Fact is we did win, despite being underdogs. Shouldn't we be hailing it as a resilient success? Who's to say that if we didn't set up shop we wouldn't have lost that in normal time?

 

And back to the double standards point, players individual errors here are constantly dismissed and put on the coaching and the setup etc. Again, to be clear, I am not saying those arguments are entirely without merit - but we can't apply one logic to our wins, and another logic to our losses and expect to come out with sensible conclusions, it's just not how it works.

That’s fair. Not playing the what if game, just making the point that it was more down to luck on that day than a masterclass which is why my view is as it is. 
 

I suppose your second point is a stronger point. I’ve been quite clear I am reluctant to be too hard on the players purely because I feel that they’ve just had the freedom and confidence drained from them. However, that is now and the cup final was 18 months ago. I think back then it was different and yes players would take the fault for mistakes (in my eyes).

 

All I was saying is that the cup final was not a Brendan masterclass. In the interests of balance, there have been a few just not for a while. The 5-2 away at Man City really was, yes we got 3 pens but that was not luck, we tore Man City’s back line a new one. The 1-0 away at Arsenal at the same sort of time as well. 
 

So yes, he gets credit for those performances and games. They have dried up though, we not play the top sides with fear not how we used to approach them.

[RedSoxUK]

Some missed opportunities along the way and we collectively have been on decline for a while. Not sure there's a time I can pinpoint it but no one has done anything about it and for at least a year most fans have been aware of the deadline..

 

The timing couldn't be worse but it's all related, and for me a big part of this decline is the sheer volume of players with heads elsewhere either at another club, risk to their position, or injured. Amartey as an exception - which is crazy, but the rest are not playing for us, Rodgers is at fault for not getting the best out of them now, and also continuing to play players that clearly were excellent previously but have essentially given up. He can get away with Soy because we've got Amartey to do a shift, but Youri... Perez... And then factor in that most of the team today wouldn't or shouldn't be playing due to injury / proper club management last summer, then it's easy to see the rot has settled in. 

[Dames]

Any argument for keeping Rodgers based on the fact he won us a trophy 2 seasons ago is negated by the fact that we sacked Ranieri halfway through the season after he lead us to an even greater achievement. 
 

 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, elvisfmcfly said:

That old chestnut, I remember they said this when Puel was on his way out. 

In a round about way they were kinda right. For his off pitch work compared to where we are now, his on pitch work stunk the place out marginally less/the same though.

 

I’ll save others the time. FA Cup.

[Guest bennytwohats]

4 minutes ago, Dames said:

Any argument for keeping Rodgers based on the fact he won us a trophy 2 seasons ago is negated by the fact that we sacked Ranieri halfway through the season after he lead us to an even greater achievement. 

Is anyone actually making that argument?

[Noahfence]

Wait till fofana comes back from injury then he’ll turn it round. 

[Fightforever]

This is with a prime Maddison in our team and we still can't create chances. Without him we would be in the Championship.

[Vazman]

36 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

Fair enough, I appreciate any points that are outside the ones with no substance as the ones I listed are.

 

I think a lot of people are probably in your mindset. I suppose people lose faith at different times and speeds. 
 

I suppose, and this is not meant as a dig or anything, but perhaps you are just holding onto what was, the really good spell, longer than others have. 
 

A lot of it for me is how he is spiralling in interviews and his negative persona. That is why I have long since known he won’t turn it round. If he had wanted to and was positive and engaged with his future being at the club, I reckon he could have turned it round, maybe not to the level of the best football we have seen. 

It's simple, he is a Glass Half empty at present, instead of being a Glass Half Full.

 

The Glass half empty side is effecting everything, and for this reason and the fact he is on a fortune in wages he has to go, had he been  a glass half full, and stayed positive the fans would understand he hasnt had signings, or pick holes in his conversations, he is all about himself, preserving his reputation, my only hope is others will see it for what it is, I don't hate him, but I want him gone, we need some energy and positivity from the manager not a whinge bag sulking. 

[Guest bennytwohats]

23 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

That’s fair. Not playing the what if game, just making the point that it was more down to luck on that day than a masterclass which is why my view is as it is. 
 

I suppose your second point is a stronger point. I’ve been quite clear I am reluctant to be too hard on the players purely because I feel that they’ve just had the freedom and confidence drained from them. However, that is now and the cup final was 18 months ago. I think back then it was different and yes players would take the fault for mistakes (in my eyes).

 

All I was saying is that the cup final was not a Brendan masterclass. In the interests of balance, there have been a few just not for a while. The 5-2 away at Man City really was, yes we got 3 pens but that was not luck, we tore Man City’s back line a new one. The 1-0 away at Arsenal at the same sort of time as well. 
 

So yes, he gets credit for those performances and games. They have dried up though, we not play the top sides with fear not how we used to approach them.

Agree with a lot of that, and what you've written there begins to converge with my own views - the performances have dried up. We look a shadow of the side we did a few years ago, we go into most games expecting defeat, culture appears to be totally rotten etc. I think it's more complicated than to pin that all on one party, however Brendan undoubtedly takes a big chunk of the blame. It's also a lot easier to change the manager than the whole squad or board. That's basically where I am and why I think it's time for him to move on.

 

As it doesn't look like we will do that then I just hope the new signings give a lift beyond the actual personnel, and hope it lifts the dressing room etc. I also think a few good results could change the momentum quite significantly, and with players returning from injury I think there are reasons for cautious optimism.

[Pliskin]

Just a reminder to those citing us plying great football under him at our pomp…… that won’t be able to keep us up, and keep us out of the shit. It’s all immaterial at the moment…. We can only focus on what he is doing now, and it’s jeopardising the future of this club. I personally can’t understand how anyone can’t see what he is doing…. He really is the master of manipulation. 

[filbertway]

Part of me enjoying this after being sh*t on by a good portion of the forum for a good 2 years for being "negative" when I was pointing out that we were getting fortunate results despite playing poorly. When you can see the squad is sleep walking in oblivion thanks for poor recruitment and an awful injury record. 

 

Good performance and process over good short term results every time for me. Being smug and blind to weaknesses will more often than not lead to issues further down the line.

 

Until the ownership starts taking the club seriously again it just feels like a bit a banter era we're in now. We've got grossly underqualified people in charge of almost every area of the club. The fact that Rodgers can get away with mad losing streaks and have excuses made for him almost 4 years into his tenure is wild. It feels like an episode of the twilight zone.

[Matt]

17 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Part of me enjoying this after being sh*t on by a good portion of the forum for a good 2 years for being "negative" when I was pointing out that we were getting fortunate results despite playing poorly. When you can see the squad is sleep walking in oblivion thanks for poor recruitment and an awful injury record. 

 

Good performance and process over good short term results every time for me. Being smug and blind to weaknesses will more often than not lead to issues further down the line.

 

Until the ownership starts taking the club seriously again it just feels like a bit a banter era we're in now. We've got grossly underqualified people in charge of almost every area of the club. The fact that Rodgers can get away with mad losing streaks and have excuses made for him almost 4 years into his tenure is wild. It feels like an episode of the twilight zone.

 

Can’t win.

 

You get called for being negative, seeing the red flags and warning signs.

 

Then when the others catch up you get accused of being a “I told you so”.

 

Edited 25 January 2023 by Matt

[Pliskin]

29 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Part of me enjoying this after being sh*t on by a good portion of the forum for a good 2 years for being "negative" when I was pointing out that we were getting fortunate results despite playing poorly. When you can see the squad is sleep walking in oblivion thanks for poor recruitment and an awful injury record. 

 

Good performance and process over good short term results every time for me. Being smug and blind to weaknesses will more often than not lead to issues further down the line.

 

Until the ownership starts taking the club seriously again it just feels like a bit a banter era we're in now. We've got grossly underqualified people in charge of almost every area of the club. The fact that Rodgers can get away with mad losing streaks and have excuses made for him almost 4 years into his tenure is wild. It feels like an episode of the twilight zone.

Biggest issue was he won a couple of trophies, albeit one a friendly…. It seems enough to write off any negativity towards him. Even in the FA cup game itself we were fortunate dare I say it. 
 

His whole tenure here has been erratic. The best run we’ve had under him was the 12 months following his appointment, and that was over two separate seasons where he inherited a really good squad. Since then it’s been from one extreme to another. There’s been a recurring theme of mental weakness, injuries, poor runs of form, bottling important situations and excessive excuses and finger pointing.  
 

The success has sexed up his tenure a little bit.

[LCFCJohn]

1 hour ago, Vazman said:

It's simple, he is a Glass Half empty at present, instead of being a Glass Half Full.

 

The Glass half empty side is effecting everything, and for this reason and the fact he is on a fortune in wages he has to go, had he been  a glass half full, and stayed positive the fans would understand he hasnt had signings, or pick holes in his conversations, he is all about himself, preserving his reputation, my only hope is others will see it for what it is, I don't hate him, but I want him gone, we need some energy and positivity from the manager not a whinge bag sulking. 

Exactly, he has checked out. And that’s reason to say it’s time.

 

Shame as the longer it goes on the more the good stuff is forgotten!

[MancFox24]

3 hours ago, LCFCJohn said:

This is the thing. I’m all for different opinions and views and it’s a forum after all. But the arguments to ‘Rodgers In’ are basically the following;

 

- Who instead - erm a whole world of managers and besides, it’s genuinely a case of anyone being better than Rodgers now, his cycle has expired, it happens. That’s not even a dig at him personally or managerial ability.

 

- Careful what you wish for - what does this even mean? 
 

- He won the FA cup you know - Yes ok, he played a part. For the record the most credit I think he gets is respecting the competition from the start which is far enough. Iheanacho dragged us there with his goals and a Youro special and Kasper masterclass won the final. 

 

- The whole club is a mess, it’s not all down to Rodgers - True, nobody even the most Rodgers out are saying otherwise. Rodgers is a huge issue though and an easy one to fix. The rest can be sorted alongside/follow on.

 

- We were in League One in 2009 you know - Ok……

 

Not sure if I have missed any!

You have missed a few:

 

- we have recent evidence to suggest that Rodgers can turn around poor form. Nobody saw that run before the world cup coming when we were getting drubbed by Brighton. 

 

- our best player and best chance of survival seems to get on really well with Rodgers. Argue about Rodgers' tactical ability all you want, Maddison has improved massively under him (if you're gonna blame Rodgers for the decline in some player's forms, you can't make the argument that those who have improved had nothing to do with him)

 

- there's not much evidence that changing manager mid season has any impact on a club improving. In order to do this successfully, there needs to be a succession plan in place, which we don't seem to have. 

 

- linked to the last point, but Rodgers has been given alot of power at the club. I agree that this was and continues to be a mistake. But it makes replacing him mid season even harder and more risky.

 

- and most importantly, and I know this might be hard for some to believe, but I genuinely think we'll be fine this year under Rodgers. People seem to think the Rodgers In brigade are just accepting our decline and blindly supporting the club towards relegation. I was very much behind the Ranieiri sacking, and thought it should have happened earlier. It was clear the players had stopped playing for him. I don't get the sense that's the case with Rodgers. I think alot of the squad seem to still respect him and be playing for him.

 

 

[elvisfmcfly]

12 hours ago, Matt said:

In a round about way they were kinda right. For his off pitch work compared to where we are now, his on pitch work stunk the place out marginally less/the same though.

 

I’ll save others the time. FA Cup.

I was going to delve into that but didn’t bother for that very reason. I will say though if we got rid of Rodgers when we should have , at least a year ago, on paper It would have been a decent upgrade ,however the longer Rodgers has been here the more damage he’s done. 

Edited 25 January 2023 by elvisfmcfly

[LCFCJohn]

15 minutes ago, MancFox24 said:

You have missed a few:

 

- we have recent evidence to suggest that Rodgers can turn around poor form. Nobody saw that run before the world cup coming when we were getting drubbed by Brighton. 

 

- our best player and best chance of survival seems to get on really well with Rodgers. Argue about Rodgers' tactical ability all you want, Maddison has improved massively under him (if you're gonna blame Rodgers for the decline in some player's forms, you can't make the argument that those who have improved had nothing to do with him)

 

- there's not much evidence that changing manager mid season has any impact on a club improving. In order to do this successfully, there needs to be a succession plan in place, which we don't seem to have. 

 

- linked to the last point, but Rodgers has been given alot of power at the club. I agree that this was and continues to be a mistake. But it makes replacing him mid season even harder and more risky.

 

- and most importantly, and I know this might be hard for some to believe, but I genuinely think we'll be fine this year under Rodgers. People seem to think the Rodgers In brigade are just accepting our decline and blindly supporting the club towards relegation. I was very much behind the Ranieiri sacking, and thought it should have happened earlier. It was clear the players had stopped playing for him. I don't get the sense that's the case with Rodgers. I think alot of the squad seem to still respect him and be playing for him.

 

 

As I say, always happy to read and respect legitimate views rather than the ones without much substance (as per my original post).

 

1 - Fair enough, personally I still felt we looked shakey and they were poor teams. Maybe we get a similar run to survive this season but is a dire losing run followed by a few wins to keep us from trouble sustainable and beneficial? 
 

2 - Maddison is at the top of his game (when fit). I don’t think anyone can claim either way how he’d have come on under another manager so we can’t really credit nor discredit Rodgers. What I mean to say is Maddison’s natural ability/personal traits. What I will always is we can’t be a one man team and I see a lot of ‘We’ll be fine when Maddison is back’. As per the above point, it’s not sustainable.

 

3 - Agree that there needs to be a plan but we’ll run clubs (which we aren’t at the moment) should always have a plan in place so a managerial appointment shouldn’t be rushed and panicked. I agree with your point on that though. Not sure so much about there being little benefit. We could do with a new manager bounce now but yeah, a bounce with a manager who is well thought out beforehand.

 

4 - The club seem to have clawed a lot of this back so if a new manager came in with his couple of staff (like assistant), I can’t see this being a problem.

 

5 - If we are fine this year it’ll be because other clubs ****ed up more. We are appalling. Do you think Rodgers can suddenly turn things around that if he sticks around next season if we stay up, we won’t be circling the drain again? My view on the players is that a lot are wanting out and don’t care or are just completely crushed. The squad in 2016/17 had strong characters so it was quite obvious they stopped playing for Ranieri. I wouldn’t say what we are seeing is a sign the players are behind him, just that they are not arsed and either want out or don’t have much character.

[Mickyblueeyes]

12 hours ago, Aus Fox said:

Yes!!! Can’t wait to see how every word gets picked and part this week!

Its all we have to be excited for at the moment.