Why is nobody on the back post for corners?

[eunmac]

Is it just me who is wondering why we never seem to have a defender on the back post for corners?
 

I haven't counted but it feels like at least 4 times this season where we have had no defender on the back post for corners, conceded in exactly the same spot.
Couple of examples below this season, where a goal was scored at the far post and it would probably made a difference. If I were the other team, I'd be aiming there every time.
 

 

[Cincinnati Fox]

Brendan’s tactics

[Jon the Hat]

Zonal marking nonsense.

[The Year Of The Fox]

“I personally don’t think it’s an issue” 

 

 

 

Stevie Wonder 2021

[smudgerfox]

You could just as well ask why the keeper doesn’t come and take charge more often? You’re right, we keep conceding the same goal and do nothing about it.
 

When asked, BR  says we don’t have the personnel to defend corners - to be fair that was when we were missing Evans, Soyuncu and/or Ndidi but even so that is an astonishing claim for a-so-called elite manager to make - virtually inviting the opposition to score. Or he said yesterday we need to be more aggressive in defending corners but I genuinely struggle to understand what that means. It seems to me the product of over technical coaching. Defenders attack the ball to get the first touch and do everything they can to stop the opponent getting the first touch. It really is that simple.  

[KFS]

The scariest thing is it’s the front post runner that keeps scoring.

[Lambert09]

I’ve never understood why myself. It’s almost like the professional game is too good for it. These days if you get it on target you mostly score. 
 

get back to the old school with 2 outfield players who’s job it is to purely stop the ball crossing the line. How often do you see these types of clearances these days?  
 

I remember in my youth I used to go on the back post and would feel like I could stop anything coming my way. 

[Lambert09]

1 minute ago, KFS said:

The scariest thing is it’s the front post runner that keeps scoring.

I’m not going to keep mentioning it but it’s obvious. With zonal marking you are going to head to the easiest zone. 
 

rudiger their biggest threat should be man marked by either evans or Armartey, the only 2 with half a chance of stopping him... instead he is able to chose and wonders towards castagnes area. It’s not rocket science who will win that. 

[CosbehFox]

It’s not just Leicester what do it. A lot of teams employ it now as they’d rather have players trying to block runners and/or caught players offside on the second phase (which has happened numerous times this season in our games). 

[smudgerfox]

It’s not the system it’s the implementation of the system but if you can’t implement the system change the system 

[dayday]

3 hours ago, eunmac said:

Is it just me who is wondering why we never seem to have a defender on the back post for corners?
 

I haven't counted but it feels like at least 4 times this season where we have had no defender on the back post for corners, conceded in exactly the same spot.
Couple of examples below this season, where a goal was scored at the far post and it would probably made a difference. If I were the other team, I'd be aiming there every time.
 

 

And everybody in the box, drives me bonkers.

[Guest ttfn]

9 minutes ago, dayday said:

And everybody in the box, drives me bonkers.

We have everybody in the box because we’re useless at defending aerially and the goalkeeper doesn’t come for crosses.

 

If you’re no good at defending the best thing to do is make it as difficult as possible for your opponents to get a run on you by making the box as busy as possible. If you have aerially dominant players (eg Huth) you can afford to clear the box as you are confident you can deal with the first ball.

 

People are asking for players on the posts and players on the halfway line. You can’t have everything - we need people to compete for the first ball and given how bad we are at it we need lots of them.

 

This is not a failure of the system, it’s a failure of implementation.

[alanf0x]

All this, the game has advanced for players on the post, zonal marking nonsense. We need to be blocking the runners etc. Get a set play coach…

 

Give me strength, just mark players man for man. Win the first ball, if not, do as much as possible to put your opponent off. Football really is a simple game…

[dayday]

1 minute ago, ttfn said:

We have everybody in the box because we’re useless at defending aerially and the goalkeeper doesn’t come for crosses.

 

If you’re no good at defending the best thing to do is make it as difficult as possible for your opponents to get a run on you by making the box as busy as possible. If you have aerially dominant players (eg Huth) you can afford to clear the box as you are confident you can deal with the first ball.

 

People are asking for players on the posts and players on the halfway line. You can’t have everything - we need people to compete for the first ball and given how bad we are at it we need lots of them.

 

This is not a failure of the system, it’s a failure of implementation.

I totally disagree, if you take Vardy and Barnes out of the box the opposition will immediately have 3 or 4 players back, to stop the counter attack

 

This makes the box less congested and with the extra players advantage you can mark your players more easier

 

Why it doesn’t work again, because even if we win the first header, it goes straight back to them

Stats don’t lie, we are the worst team at conceding goals from set pieces, something has to give.

[Guest ttfn]

9 minutes ago, dayday said:

I totally disagree, if you take Vardy and Barnes out of the box the opposition will immediately have 3 or 4 players back, to stop the counter attack

 

This makes the box less congested and with the extra players advantage you can mark your players more easier

 

Why it doesn’t work again, because even if we win the first header, it goes straight back to them

Stats don’t lie, we are the worst team at conceding goals from set pieces, something has to give.

Just because we don’t leave anybody up front it doesn’t mean the opposition leave nobody back.

 

Typically our opponents will leave 1 or 2 back even when we’ve left nobody up. All putting 2 men up front would do is mean they’d leave 3 or 4 back, ie every extra man we put up will have them drop one back. It would make no difference at all other than give more space for everybody to attack the ball in the box. I don’t fancy our chances in that situation.

 

Don’t disagree that something has to give, I just don’t think that the solution for a side who can’t defend the first ball is to make it easier for the opposition to score from the first ball.

Edited 21 November 2021 by ttfn

[The Year Of The Fox]

21 minutes ago, alanf0x said:

All this, the game has advanced for players on the post, zonal marking nonsense. We need to be blocking the runners etc. Get a set play coach…

 

Give me strength, just mark players man for man. Win the first ball, if not, do as much as possible to put your opponent off. Football really is a simple game…

This is it

 

I can’t stand the ‘the games changed’ or ‘the games moved on’

 

No it hasn’t. It’s still 11 v 11 on a pitch size that is within the allowable tolerances.

 

All that happens is that someone like Neville says it’s once on Sky, then the majority of the footballing sheep repeat it because they think it makes them sound insightful. It doesn’t. 

Edited 21 November 2021 by The Year Of The Fox

[CosbehFox]

A less congested box is exactly what the opposition want. More space to get a run on a defender. Less chance of being blocked off. The goal yesterday wasn’t even particularly innovative from Chelsea; this wasn’t a front post run like a lot of goals we are conceding. It was a failure of all those zonal players not acknowledging that there’s a big ****ing defender stood on your keeper. 
 

Sticking players up front to take players out of the box is quite reliant on a dominating goalkeeper and accurate distribution. Even then it’s a very much; a low percentage move.
 

Chelsea will still had one or two players on the half way line when they took corners yesterday. So they aren’t bringing any more back they wouldn’t have. Maybe 1 more who goes between the 18 yard box and the half way line. 
 

Let’s say Chelsea leave two back - we have 10 defenders to 7 attackers on a corner yesterday. So all it does sending the likes of Vardy and Barnes up front is just make that 8 to 5 etc etc 

Edited 21 November 2021 by Cardiff_Fox

[Winchesterfox]

4 minutes ago, ttfn said:

Just because we don’t leave anybody up front it doesn’t mean the opposition leave nobody back.

 

Typically our opponents will leave 2 back even when we’ve left nobody up. All putting 2 men up front would do is mean they’d leave 4 back, ie every extra man we put up will have them drop one back. It would make no difference at all other than give more space for everybody to attack the ball in the box. I don’t fancy our chances in that situation.

 

Don’t disagree that something has to give, I just don’t think that the solution for a side who can’t defend the first ball is to make it easier for the opposition to score from the first ball.

Why not put players up front who are useless defensively, e.g. Barnes, Lookman?  

[CosbehFox]

Just now, Winchesterfox said:

Why not put players up front who are useless defensively, e.g. Barnes, Lookman?  

For the purpose of ? 

[Winchesterfox]

1 minute ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

For the purpose of ? 

Trying to score a goal on the break at corners.  

[dayday]

2 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

A less congested box is exactly what the opposition want. More space to get a run on a defender. Less chance of being blocked off. The goal yesterday wasn’t even particularly innovative from Chelsea; this wasn’t a front post run like a lot of goals we are conceding. It was a failure of all those zonal players not acknowledging that there’s a big ****ing defender stood on your keeper. 
 

Sticking players up front to take players out of the box is quite reliant on a dominating goalkeeper and accurate distribution. Even then it’s a very much; a low percentage move.
 

Chelsea will still had one or two players on the half way line when they took corners yesterday. So they aren’t bringing any more back they wouldn’t have. Maybe 1 more who goes between the 18 yard box and the half way line 

Ranieri used to do it with Vardy and Mahrez, it worked well then.

 

What did Einstein say. Insanity:doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

 

 

 

[CosbehFox]

Just now, Winchesterfox said:

Trying to score a goal on the break at corners.  

But that would suggest we need to win the first header which exactly what’s not happening now.
 

That’s where it falls down regardless of what system you play - zonal, man for man etc. You’ve got to win that first challenge and then claim the ball mostly like again. 
 

I know a lot of people get the idea from when Ranieri did versus Stoke but we didn’t score a goal from it. On that occasion it just acknowledged that Stoke had an incredible number of players good in the air who were better off outside the 18 yard box. 

[CosbehFox]

8 minutes ago, dayday said:

Ranieri used to do it with Vardy and Mahrez, it worked well then.

 

What did Einstein say. Insanity:doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

 

 

 

And the goals from such situations were very rare events. I think we scored two. If you watch the Man U Vardy goal, it’s only Vardy on the half way line. Mahrez is in the 18 yard box when they take their corner. Same with the West Ham goal. 
 

Also on both examples, they were poor corners which went straight in Schmeichel’s hands. 
 

We scored a goal at Brentford where the same happened. Keeper caught it. Kele got up, held it and away we go. That’s not from having two or three on the half way line when the corners taken. Only Kelechi up there 

Edited 21 November 2021 by Cardiff_Fox

[Winchesterfox]

2 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

But that would suggest we need to win the first header which exactly what’s not happening now.
 

That’s where it falls down regardless of what system you play - zonal, man for man etc. You’ve got to win that first challenge and then claim the ball mostly like again. 
 

I know a lot of people get the idea from when Ranieri did versus Stoke but we didn’t score a goal from it. On that occasion it just acknowledged that Stoke had an incredible number of players good in the air who were better off outside the 18 yard box. 

But Barnes and Lookman aren't going to win the first header anyway, so you might as well have them further up the pitch tying up players who are stopping them on the break.   We still have to solve the first header problem, I agree.  

[dayday]

3 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

But that would suggest we need to win the first header which exactly what’s not happening now.
 

That’s where it falls down regardless of what system you play - zonal, man for man etc. You’ve got to win that first challenge and then claim the ball mostly like again. 
 

I know a lot of people get the idea from when Ranieri did versus Stoke but we didn’t score a goal from it. On that occasion it just acknowledged that Stoke had an incredible number of players good in the air who were better off outside the 18 yard box. 

This is the problem we have now, we don’t have big centre backs, the cbs we do have get bullied to easily.

 

Every corner is the same, you’re grimacing as you know what’s coming.

 

Every other team will know corners are our Achilles heel, and the more it stays the way it is the more the players will lose confidence

 
So it’s time to try something different.