Why is nobody on the back post for corners?

[sacreblueits442]

On 21/11/2021 at 12:01, st albans fox said:

exactly -  clubs dont do posts anymore as it stops the attacking side crowding the keeper cos they’ll be offside (as we know to our cost) 

I suspect not many of the headed goals we’ve conceded would have been reached by the guy on the back post anyway 
 

The Welsh fox fella has already indicated that a less congested box also gives the opposition an easier route to get to the ball 

 

 

...those clips do not prove that...!!!

Over congested boxes only confuses the issue, it puts the onus on someone else to defend the first contact. Just look at the amount of our players in the box and none of them could get first contact on the ball.

  I always preferred to be surrounded by 3 or 4 players, you beat one and they wait to see the outcome so you go past him whilst the third one waits to see what happens beat him and the other defender waits to see what happens next. In a one to one, you are forced to make a decision and the defender can see where you are going and his concentration is not distracted by other players around him. Less players in the box, allows you to pickup better as you can see your man to pick up. 

  The great think is you have a chance for the second ball and keep the opponents from filling our box.

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...those clips do not prove that...!!!

Over congested boxes only confuses the issue, it puts the onus on someone else to defend the first contact. Just look at the amount of our players in the box and none of them could get first contact on the ball.

  I always preferred to be surrounded by 3 or 4 players, you beat one and they wait to see the outcome so you go past him whilst the third one waits to see what happens beat him and the other defender waits to see what happens next. In a one to one, you are forced to make a decision and the defender can see where you are going and his concentration is not distracted by other players around him. Less players in the box, allows you to pickup better as you can see your man to pick up. 

  The great think is you have a chance for the second ball and keep the opponents from filling our box.

Let’s look at it another way re congestion

 

if there were three defenders and two attackers in the box then the chances of one of the attackers getting first contact are pretty good. A good striker with good movement has a more than decent chance to get the run on his marker 

 

if there are eight defenders and six attackers in the box then the chances are reduced because the lack of space should mean it’s easier to block areas and limit first contact by the striker 

[sacreblueits442]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Let’s look at it another way re congestion

 

if there were three defenders and two attackers in the box then the chances of one of the attackers getting first contact are pretty good. A good striker with good movement has a more than decent chance to get the run on his marker 

 

if there are eight defenders and six attackers in the box then the chances are reduced because the lack of space should mean it’s easier to block areas and limit first contact by the striker 

...take a look at the clips again, we outnumbered them at that near post and we still could not compete!!!

Three defenders versus two attackers means you have a "blocker" and one on one with your attackers.

[st albans fox]

9 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...take a look at the clips again, we outnumbered them at that near post and we still could not compete!!!

Three defenders versus two attackers means you have a "blocker" and one on one with your attackers.

If you’re debating our organisation at corners then there is no discussion - we’re hopeless and embarrassing. 

[dayday]

On 21/11/2021 at 12:33, Cardiff_Fox said:

It doesn’t take 3 players out of the box. It takes 1, 2 at most. 
 

In defence that would give us 8 players. We’d have to have 2; out of the 18 yard box. One of them protecting the short corner and another protecting edge of the box. 
 

So that’s 6 defending. One on the front post; in case it falls short. 
 

So that’s 5 defending the corner. What we got? Wilf, Evans, Soyuncu, Amartey and Soumare ? 
 

That’s probably why there’s an insistence on zonal. 

Do you really think if Barnes and say Lookman, was outside the box the opposition would only leave 1 or 2 players out of box themselves, not a chance.

 

 

[Unabomber]

Why does Brendan always bring Vardy back? Why not leave him on the half way line 

[CosbehFox]

5 minutes ago, dayday said:

Do you really think if Barnes and say Lookman, was outside the box the opposition would only leave 1 or 2 players out of box themselves, not a chance.

 

 

There’s already two players on the halfway line for most teams taking the corner…even without Barnes and Lookman on the halfway line…..

Edited 22 November 2021 by Cardiff_Fox

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, Unabomber said:

Why does Brendan always bring Vardy back? Why not leave him on the half way line 

Cos he’s tasked with heading away at the front post ……if you stick him up top then you have to bring a shorter player back to defend which simply adds to our problems 

[Unabomber]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Cos he’s tasked with heading away at the front post ……if you stick him up top then you have to bring a shorter player back to defend which simply adds to our problems 

Yeah but didn’t he head one in v Burnley? That didn’t help our problems 

[st albans fox]

Just now, Unabomber said:

Yeah but didn’t he head one in v Burnley? That didn’t help our problems 

Yeah, we should have put lookman front post for that corner! 

[STEVIE B]

10 minutes ago, Unabomber said:

Why does Brendan always bring Vardy back? Why not leave him on the half way line 

In the title winning season Ranieri would leave Vardy & Mahrez on the halfway line. 
Took at least 3 opposition players out of our box straight away. Very innovative. 

[lcfc_forever]

Brighton showed the advantage of not having a man on the line as they caught us out offside twice, albeit the linesman got it wrong at least once.

 

Since then, it appears the refs and linesman have been told to be more lenient on players who may be in an offside position but not interfering with play. 

 

So the issues with putting someone on the line are reduced. Given our issues, it makes sense now to have someone on the line until we've fully rebuilt our confidence. 

[Clever Fox]

It's up to the Manager to sort out who marks who at Corners. Yet we had Castagne to his credit trying to mark Rudiger.

A player who's just back from a fractured Eye Socket.

Rudiger is a beast to play against and a handful in the Box. Where was our CBs.?

 

It was also obvious with Youri missing that we were going to have trouble retaining the Ball. Yes he left Maddison out. His possession play and falling over would have disrupted the game continuously stopping Chelsea from getting any rhythm going which would have prevented their onslaught. Bazaar from Brendan.  

[Fightforever]

The players need to go to the gym its simple we were physically bullied. A fancy new training ground and our players still can't pack on any muscle.

 

 

Other teams just have stronger players who run through our weaklings like a knife through butter.

 

Doesn't help that Schmeichel is too scared to command his 6 yard box either.

Edited 23 November 2021 by Fightforever

[dayday]

7 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

There’s already two players on the halfway line for most teams taking the corner…even without Barnes and Lookman on the halfway line…..

That’s right, but if you have 2 of your quickest players out of the box, then it comes down a foot race, Barnes and Lookman are the best 2 players in the side for taking players on

 

Thats why you’re more likely to see 3 or even 4 of there players out of the box.

 

 

[FoxOnWheels]

On 21/11/2021 at 06:44, ttfn said:

We have everybody in the box because we’re useless at defending aerially and the goalkeeper doesn’t come for crosses.

 

If you’re no good at defending the best thing to do is make it as difficult as possible for your opponents to get a run on you by making the box as busy as possible. If you have aerially dominant players (eg Huth) you can afford to clear the box as you are confident you can deal with the first ball.

 

People are asking for players on the posts and players on the halfway line. You can’t have everything - we need people to compete for the first ball and given how bad we are at it we need lots of them.

 

This is not a failure of the system, it’s a failure of implementation.

But then we just allow them to bring more forward and the people they bring forward for the corner tend to be better in the air than us

[Guest ttfn]

1 hour ago, FoxOnWheels said:

But then we just allow them to bring more forward and the people they bring forward for the corner tend to be better in the air than us

It’s harder to assert that superiority in a crowded penalty area, it’s the set piece defence equivalent of flooding the pitch so the ball slows down against good passing teams. It’s supposed to be a leveller.

 

I don’t disagree with everyone else that something needs to change, I just don’t think that making it easier for other teams to get a run on the ball is going to make things easier.

 

One thing I’d do immediately is get Vardy off the area at the front post. He heads a lot clear but that is a function of the volume of balls being put into that area rather than his ability at dealing with them. When you look at some of the best players at defending that space they tend to be physically imposing centre forwards who like to attack the ball in the opposition penalty area, and they bring those skills to defending the front post (Ulloa, Drogba). We don’t have one of those but the next best thing is probably Amartey who is our biggest threat from attacking set pieces. 
 

Others have also pointed out that it seems mad to be defending zonally with Evans at the back post when we’ve conceded the same goal 3 times this season from corners played into the front post, and another from a wide free kick. Get him into a position where he is dealing with the highest chance of danger (other than the ball into the near post) - there is no way that’s the back post.

[jmono84]

On 21/11/2021 at 12:14, TrentFox said:

Personally, I think the time has come for us to unleash the five-on-the-line; five-in-the-box system. You heard it here first 👍

Haha I’ve constantly had a thought in my head about something like this.

 

The reason why zonal marking doesn’t work for us is because the attackers get the run on the defenders so like your plan I say have the blockers trying to block the attackers like they’re trying to do anyway but have your guys who was zonal marking start on the goal line, or even behind it and then attack the ball when it comes in. I think that could work haha.

 

Also I’d tell Kasper to come for everything, he might as well because he’s not doing anything else standing where he is like a plumb.

 

That should get the aggression BR bangs on about.

Edited 23 November 2021 by jmono84
Missed line from goal line

[FoxinNotts]

God knows 

[sacreblueits442]

.....move from zonal to man to man!!!

   You have already played your hand if you choose to take up a position that the opposition can adjust to. 

  We cannot continue to do the same thing as other teams do, we need to find a way to overcome this weakness and we also need to have less players in our box.

[Christoph]

The real issue is Schmeichel  hardly ever leaves his line. How often does he get off his line to punch it out? Very rarely. He needs to be more commanding in his box and start punching out. I know he's had some clangers trying it before but its better than conceding a goal from a corner every few games..

[Haywood_6]

Three main problems for me 

 

1) Kasper is absolutely rooted to his goal line. He doesn't show any authority in his own box!!! If it's in his 6 yard box he needs to try and get it.

 

2) Nobody standing on the back post. Put someone there ffs!

 

3) Zonal Marking. Not working and we need to change it. Too often someone like Rudiger/Zouma gets a run on us and we're done for. We need to get tight and be more physical. 

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, Christoph said:

The real issue is Schmeichel  hardly ever leaves his line. How often does he get off his line to punch it out? Very rarely. He needs to be more commanding in his box and start punching out. I know he's had some clangers trying it before but its better than conceding a goal from a corner every few games..

...he used to take a few of his own players out when he came to punch, so I suspect the decision to stay on his line was mutual!!!

   Would like to see him come out and catch the ball again, but that does not tend to happen too often. 

[Clever Fox]

1 hour ago, sacreblueits442 said:

.....move from zonal to man to man!!!

   You have already played your hand if you choose to take up a position that the opposition can adjust to. 

  We cannot continue to do the same thing as other teams do, we need to find a way to overcome this weakness and we also need to have less players in our box.

Exactly this will help greatly. As said also I'd position Barnes and Vardy or Lookman wide around the half way line. this will give the opposition something to worry about and possibly keep 3 back to protect themselves knowing the pace they both have. This will relieve some of the pressure in the box. 

The other thing that needs to happen is we need to take note of these deficiencies when signing players. in short we need to sign a few 6ft plus defenders with attitude.  

I know we signed Soumare who is tall but He's doesn't understand the game yet and I sense is timid by nature.

Unfortunately we need to ship out the fodder first.

[CosbehFox]

15 hours ago, STEVIE B said:

In the title winning season Ranieri would leave Vardy & Mahrez on the halfway line. 
Took at least 3 opposition players out of our box straight away. Very innovative. 

He did it once. 
 

If it was that innovative why aren’t every team in the country doing it? 

Edited 23 November 2021 by Cardiff_Fox