Why is nobody on the back post for corners?

[CosbehFox]

Just now, Winchesterfox said:

But Barnes and Lookman aren't going to win the first header anyway, so you might as well have them further up the pitch tying up players who are stopping them on the break.   We still have to solve the first header problem, I agree.  

They aren’t there to win the first header. Looking at those stills. Barnes is there to try and stop an attackers run. Lookman is covering the edge of the 18 yard box (funnily enough the same position Mahrez used to take up just watching back the videos of those Vardy goals I mentioned) - he’s partly protecting the second phase. 
 

Chelsea yesterday will have still had one or two on the half way line. Not marking anybody. So Barnes and Lookman go to the half way line. Chelsea are comfortable with that.
 

They might push the bloke Lookman’s looking after a bit deeper. So Chelsea would be comfortable with 3 defenders on 2 attackers there. Just have more room to attack. 

[CosbehFox]

2 minutes ago, dayday said:

This is the problem we have now, we don’t have big centre backs, the cbs we do have get bullied to easily.

 

Every corner is the same, you’re grimacing as you know what’s coming.

 

Every other team will know corners are our Achilles heel, and the more it stays the way it is the more the players will lose confidence

 
So it’s time to try something different.

 

 

And the difference is to allow more space in the 18 yard box for those centre backs to get bullied more ? 
 

that’s what advocating pushing players on the half way line does 

[Guest Col city fan]

Just look at how many of our players go to the FRONT post area, Chilwell’s corner is bang on, it flies over all of them and Rudiger just has to nod it home

Just after he scores, look at the crowd of our own players completely redundant at that front post area

Why on earth are there so many there?

Terrible defending and tactically inept 

 

[Matt]

Ah **** it, it works in this thread aswell, every time Leicester concede a set piece:

 

[dayday]

4 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

And the difference is to allow more space in the 18 yard box for those centre backs to get bullied more ? 
 

that’s what advocating pushing players on the half way line does 

With zonal marking we’re always static, players like Rudiger, Antonio, Chris Wood will be licking there lips, they get that first run on us all the time.

 

We pull 2 players out of the box, they will have 4 players out of the box

 

Players like Ndidi and Soumare, Soyuncu then can defend the oppos best set piece players more easily.

 

Carry on with this 11 players in the box, it will be the same story.

 

All I’m saying is we have to try something different.

 

Kasper is not helping the cause either, rooted to his line all the time, yesterday he finally come out and punched one, about bloody time.

[CosbehFox]

9 minutes ago, dayday said:

With zonal marking we’re always static, players like Rudiger, Antonio, Chris Wood will be licking there lips, they get that first run on us all the time.

 

We pull 2 players out of the box, they will have 4 players out of the box

 

Players like Ndidi and Soumare, Soyuncu then can defend the oppos best set piece players more easily.

 

Carry on with this 11 players in the box, it will be the same story.

 

All I’m saying is we have to try something different.

 

Kasper is not helping the cause either, rooted to his line all the time, yesterday he finally come out and punched one, about bloody time.

There’s already two out of the box when they are scoring at the moment - two of our players go forward, they only need one other player to go back. So they’d have three back. 
 

The opposition can maintain having all their big defenders in the box. Be a winger or a short central midfielder who goes back to defend. Just more space for those defenders to run into
 

Just got to get a lot better at defending them and doing the very basics of it all. Win the first header or simply stop the opposition getting a clean header. Rudiger was unchallenged yesterday. Some in the zonal system has step forward there and think he’s gonna go there. Stick him off balance or get on his toes. Zonal marking is a system which some of the best defenders in the history of the sport have used. They just do it better 

Edited 21 November 2021 by Cardiff_Fox

[OntarioFox]

Near post is the problem. It's embarrassing how many times a ball is delivered with pace, nobody attacks it for us and it's glanced into the far corner. That's Rudiger's goal yesterday.

[Dames]

10 million pounds a year and 3 international breaks and the manager still hasn’t sorted this issue this season.

 

He’s gone stale, doesn’t want it anymore. He wants out whilst his reputation is still on the up so he can land himself one last big job. 

 

 

[Nod.E]

The benefit of any system is to stop as many goals as possible from happening. For some time now, we have been doing the total opposite. It doesn't get worse than this as far as set pieces are concerned, so just change it.

 

Doesn't matter what your thoughts are about zonal marking, whether you're for or against it. It has worked terribly for a long time, so we need to try something different. 

 

How anyone, our manager included, can justify doing the same thing over and over and over again and watch the same goal go in against us every week is beyond me.

[Hales]

The fact our awful defending of set pieces has not been addressed is inexcusable.  Its a massive problem. We can see it, other teams see it, the media see it yet nothing has seemingly been done?!

 

I do not understand why this hasn't been rectified. There is no improvement whatsoever.

[sacreblueits442]

4 hours ago, smudgerfox said:

You could just as well ask why the keeper doesn’t come and take charge more often? You’re right, we keep conceding the same goal and do nothing about it.
 

When asked, BR  says we don’t have the personnel to defend corners - to be fair that was when we were missing Evans, Soyuncu and/or Ndidi but even so that is an astonishing claim for a-so-called elite manager to make - virtually inviting the opposition to score. Or he said yesterday we need to be more aggressive in defending corners but I genuinely struggle to understand what that means. It seems to me the product of over technical coaching. Defenders attack the ball to get the first touch and do everything they can to stop the opponent getting the first touch. It really is that simple.  

....he was alluding to "blocking" where the opponent uses a player to prevent a defender getting a run at the ball!!!

   At corners as soon as the contact is made "offside" kicks back in again and with someone on the line, you could be playing an opponent "on". That could be the idea behind it, but still  a big gamble. Especially if it goes in from first contact.

  Kasper used to come for the ball but has now decided to stay on his line, that would either have been agreed by the manager or a personal decision by the keeper.

  It is noticeable that when we do take a lead in big games he reverts to coming off his line, very strange.

[MonkeyTennis?]

Good thread, good question - no-one really knows why we do this, even though its blindingly, obviously a massive problem for us, and anyone with eyes can see that its a glaring tactical error we commit every single time. See also: why do we persist with zonal marking, even though it clearly doesn't work?

[dannythefox]

Two corners yesterday Albrighton was marking Rudiger, really can’t blame the players for this Rodgers has to take blame for how we set up.

[Guest Col city fan]

41 minutes ago, OntarioFox said:

Near post is the problem. It's embarrassing how many times a ball is delivered with pace, nobody attacks it for us and it's glanced into the far corner. That's Rudiger's goal yesterday.

The near post yesterday was not the problem. Look at the video of the highlights

The problem was that TOO MANY went to the near post, they all misjudged it and it sailed over there heads leaving no-one to mark Rudiger.

How the Hell Rodgers can have the reputation he is when he can’t even set us up to defend corners properly is beyond me. 
But the fundamental problem is that our defenders aren’t very good. Evans… looking past it and bang off form, Soyuncu (God knows what’s happened to him) and Big Dan… meh

We’ve been saying it for months. Our defence is shite 

[jammie82uk]

3 hours ago, Winchesterfox said:

But Barnes and Lookman aren't going to win the first header anyway, so you might as well have them further up the pitch tying up players who are stopping them on the break.   We still have to solve the first header problem, I agree.  

 

3 hours ago, dayday said:

This is the problem we have now, we don’t have big centre backs, the cbs we do have get bullied to easily.

 

Every corner is the same, you’re grimacing as you know what’s coming.

 

Every other team will know corners are our Achilles heel, and the more it stays the way it is the more the players will lose confidence

 
So it’s time to try something different.

 

 

I agree something needs to change on set pieces in general obviously especially corners I think we are just to negative,

what annoyed me yesterday in the first half Chelsea had a free kick half way into our half by the touch line, we take everyone back to defend the furthest defender back for Chelsea was Recce James and he was 10/15 yards inside our half, our opponents last defender shouldn’t be comfortable in our own half surely 

[KFS]

I pulled the clips together so you don’t have to. This is football arrogance at its core, to let this happen every week and not see that there’s a problem. Not even a case of our fans being deluded, it’s just football basics and bad coaching.

 

The lack of men on the post, the gravitation to the ball, yet zero ability to win headers, Kasper rooted to his line… it’s all here:

 

https://streamable.com/9y0jb8

[st albans fox]

5 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

It’s not just Leicester what do it. A lot of teams employ it now as they’d rather have players trying to block runners and/or caught players offside on the second phase (which has happened numerous times this season in our games). 

exactly -  clubs dont do posts anymore as it stops the attacking side crowding the keeper cos they’ll be offside (as we know to our cost) 

I suspect not many of the headed goals we’ve conceded would have been reached by the guy on the back post anyway 
 

5 hours ago, dayday said:

I totally disagree, if you take Vardy and Barnes out of the box the opposition will immediately have 3 or 4 players back, to stop the counter attack

 

This makes the box less congested and with the extra players advantage you can mark your players more easier

 

Why it doesn’t work again, because even if we win the first header, it goes straight back to them

Stats don’t lie, we are the worst team at conceding goals from set pieces, something has to give.

The Welsh fox fella has already indicated that a less congested box also gives the opposition an easier route to get to the ball 

 

 

[mozartfox]

39 minutes ago, KFS said:

I pulled the clips together so you don’t have to. This is football arrogance at its core, to let this happen every week and not see that there’s a problem. Not even a case of our fans being deluded, it’s just football basics and bad coaching.

 

The lack of men on the post, the gravitation to the ball, yet zero ability to win headers, Kasper rooted to his line… it’s all here:

 

https://streamable.com/9y0jb8

Please send via e-mails to Seagrave - Attention: Goal Keeping and Defence Coaches.

[Beliall]

yes but what have the romans ever done for us?

[OntarioFox]

1 hour ago, Col city fan said:

The near post yesterday was not the problem. Look at the video of the highlights

The problem was that TOO MANY went to the near post, they all misjudged it and it sailed over there heads leaving no-one to mark Rudiger.

How the Hell Rodgers can have the reputation he is when he can’t even set us up to defend corners properly is beyond me. 
But the fundamental problem is that our defenders aren’t very good. Evans… looking past it and bang off form, Soyuncu (God knows what’s happened to him) and Big Dan… meh

We’ve been saying it for months. Our defence is shite 

It actually was though - but you're absolutely correct that the way we defended it - by putting half our team in front of it in absolute no-man's land - was Sunday League standard tactical thinking. You can put as many players there as you like, but failing to either man mark or attack the ball in those areas allows people to ghost in, and teams are fairly obviously targetting us in that respect. I'd almost accept it more if Rudiger has that header at the back post, but he didn't - he was nearly level with the front post. No defender worth their salt should be letting ANYBODY get a header away the near side of the penalty spot, but it's happening to us again and again, because our positioning is atrocious.

The clip @KFS just posted lays it bare. The Arsenal and Brentford goals were particularly appalling, and I missed it on the day but we were bloody lucky not to concede that one against Leeds too.

It's honestly not so much the players as the way they're being coached. To call it zonal marking is an insult to the concept of marking. We're just throwing toy soldiers on the ground and saying "that'll do".

Edited 21 November 2021 by OntarioFox

[Duquesne Whistle]

7 minutes ago, mozartfox said:

Please send via e-mails to Seagrave - Attention: Goal Keeping and Defence Coaches.

Probably wouldn't get to the intended recipient. They'd miss them at the front post.

[lgfualol]

Our set piece coach must still be on furlough. It's got to the point that whenever the other team has a corner and don't score it's more of a shock than if they do score. I'm sick of not even having anyone outside of our box so on the rare occasion we clear it there's nobody there to counter.

[TrentFox]

Personally, I think the time has come for us to unleash the five-on-the-line; five-in-the-box system. You heard it here first 👍

[filbertway]

5 hours ago, ttfn said:

We have everybody in the box because we’re useless at defending aerially and the goalkeeper doesn’t come for crosses.

 

If you’re no good at defending the best thing to do is make it as difficult as possible for your opponents to get a run on you by making the box as busy as possible. If you have aerially dominant players (eg Huth) you can afford to clear the box as you are confident you can deal with the first ball.

 

People are asking for players on the posts and players on the halfway line. You can’t have everything - we need people to compete for the first ball and given how bad we are at it we need lots of them.

 

This is not a failure of the system, it’s a failure of implementation.

Leave 2 pacey players on half way, that immediately take 3 players out of the box and have your cbs mark their biggest aerial threats. Its really easy

 

Or just carry on having our cbs stand like statues while the people who are awful in the air end up challenging the other teams best headers.

 

 

[weller54]

18 minutes ago, Beliall said:

yes but what have the romans ever done for us?

Sewers.