Southgate Out!

[Tommy Fresh]

4 hours ago, TJQuik said:

Sven was tactically inept with England and Capello had a vastly inferior squad to what Southgate has at his disposal.

I'm referring to both of their times prior to England

[Tommy Fresh]

8 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

As I said a man out of time, no matter how good your tactics are if you can't get people to follow you and believe in you, hence the busted flush comment.

 

Brilliant manager in the 90s winning a host of trophies, but was on the wane in the 00s

 

Mainly because international football is no longer the pinnacle of the sport, lots of average manager working in international football, its either a retirement home or the place for manager who can't cut it in club football. 

You've made a point as if you're disagreeing with me and Col but you've just agree with both as far as I can see. My point was about how good both were tactically, and how being tactically isn't the be all and end all as Southgate has surpassed both of them.

Edited 19 December 2022 by Tommy Fresh

[Leicesterpool]

What happened to the fa's big project to win the World cup by 2022? For the other top nations its about winning cups and being dominant force. With the fa it's all acting has politians and ticking boxes. Too much for rewarding failure. Look at Brazil knocked in quarter finals is treated as public disgrace... not saying we should do the same. But the Brazilians want winners. Too many suited snobs in the Fa, who are part time footy fans.

Edited 19 December 2022 by Leicesterpool

[Captain...]

1 hour ago, Leicesterpool said:

What happened to the fa's big project to win the World cup by 2022? For the other top nations its about winning cups and being dominant force. With the fa it's all acting has politians and ticking boxes. Too much for rewarding failure. Look at Brazil knocked in quarter finals is treated as public disgrace... not saying we should do the same. But the Brazilians want winners. Too many suited snobs in the Fa, who are part time footy fans.

Brazil lost to an aging Croatia and badly managed the game after they scored and the penalty shootout.

 

England lost to favourites France in a game where we actually played very well, matched (if not bettered) France in all areas except a couple of clutch moments.

 

I don't think we're rewarding failure here, Southgate has a contract and deserves the next tournament. Sacking him with no replacement in mind would be a massive knee jerk reaction akin to throwing the baby out with the bath water. We need to start looking at replacements as it is only 18 months until the Euros but I think the only failure at this tournament was the USA game.

[An Sionnach]

Southgate doesn't do brain transplants. Time and time again we get outhought in tight matches , its not all about skill levels. It was noticeable yesterday how Messi and Macallister continually kept the French defense guessing and that is pure intelligence.

Edited 19 December 2022 by An Sionnach

[cruzFOX]

I’m still marveling at the jobs the Moroccan manager has done in a few short months with little experience and scaloni at Argentina in d fed short years. 
southgate has to instill a more ruthless go for it tournament style before he will het England to win anything.

In tournament football every game is like a final. Be aggressive, be direct and empty the tank no more waltzing around at the back for 30 min egging the opposition to attack

[Fox Shagger]

Southgate reflects the weak-minded, snowflake culture of his squad and the British public in general.

 

While we focus on fair play, sportsmanship, rainbow armbands and politics, other proper footballing nations go to tournaments solely focused on football and doing anything and everything to win.

[grobyfox1990]

1 hour ago, Fox Shagger said:

Southgate reflects the weak-minded, snowflake culture of his squad and the British public in general.

 

While we focus on fair play, sportsmanship, rainbow armbands and politics, other proper footballing nations go to tournaments solely focused on football and doing anything and everything to win.

Southgate needs to go because he's unable to get success from an incredibly talented group of players, but i've honestly never understood this 'Brits are weak-minded snowflakes' sentiment. We are a tiny wind-battered island in the middle of the sea that took over the world without showing any mercy. The majority of us thought we would be better off on our own in 2016. Even now when we are flat broke bankrupt, with nothing to offer anybody and no logical reason to think we are going to have a half decent life for the next decade, the majority of us probably still think it's all Putin's fault and not our own doing. Brits are a long way from weak-minded.

[Captain...]

2 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Southgate needs to go because he's unable to get success from an incredibly talented group of players, but i've honestly never understood this 'Brits are weak-minded snowflakes' sentiment. We are a tiny wind-battered island in the middle of the sea that took over the world without showing any mercy. The majority of us thought we would be better off on our own in 2016. Even now when we are flat broke bankrupt, with nothing to offer anybody and no logical reason to think we are going to have a half decent life for the next decade, the majority of us probably still think it's all Putin's fault and not our own doing. Brits are a long way from weak-minded.

Incredibly talented is pushing it, how many of our starting 11 are first choice for a champions League regular?

 

Pickford - No

Walker - Possibly 

Stones - Not when everyone is fit 

Maguire - No 

Shaw - No 

Trippier - No

Bellingham - Yes  

Henderson - No 

Rice - No

Mount - Yes but no idea why 

Sterling - wasn't at Man City, feel like he's already out of favour at Chelsea 

Saka - No 

Grealish - No 

Rashford - No 

Kane - Yes (but never won anything) 

 

We have a moderately talented side that has had moderate success under a reasonable manager. This is not the golden generation of Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Beckham, Rooney, Ferdinand, Terry, Carragher, Cole etc 2000-2008 we had some of the best players in the world but it just didn't work. Right now we have a wunder-kid, a perennial loser, a couple of flash in the pan types and a bunch of good solid professionals.

 

What they've achieved under Southgate is definitely a success.

 

 

[grobyfox1990]

46 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Incredibly talented is pushing it, how many of our starting 11 are first choice for a champions League regular?

 

Pickford - No

Walker - Possibly 

Stones - Not when everyone is fit 

Maguire - No 

Shaw - No 

Trippier - No

Bellingham - Yes  

Henderson - No 

Rice - No

Mount - Yes but no idea why 

Sterling - wasn't at Man City, feel like he's already out of favour at Chelsea 

Saka - No 

Grealish - No 

Rashford - No 

Kane - Yes (but never won anything) 

 

We have a moderately talented side that has had moderate success under a reasonable manager. This is not the golden generation of Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Beckham, Rooney, Ferdinand, Terry, Carragher, Cole etc 2000-2008 we had some of the best players in the world but it just didn't work. Right now we have a wunder-kid, a perennial loser, a couple of flash in the pan types and a bunch of good solid professionals.

 

What they've achieved under Southgate is definitely a success.

 

 

fair point. Henderson in the No camp is mental though. He’s a champions league winning captain. Also the standard of the prem is high, we could have a good few more teams in the CL I think. 
When you’ve got someone as talented as Maddison who can’t even get a minute I’d say it’s unfair to call us a ‘moderately talented’ team. 

[Captain...]

33 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said:

fair point. Henderson in the No camp is mental though. He’s a champions league winning captain. Also the standard of the prem is high, we could have a good few more teams in the CL I think. 
When you’ve got someone as talented as Maddison who can’t even get a minute I’d say it’s unfair to call us a ‘moderately talented’ team. 

2 years ago yes, but Henderson is no longer first choice at Liverpool despite being club captain. It is a symptom of the success of the Premier League.

[leicsmac]

8 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said:

Southgate needs to go because he's unable to get success from an incredibly talented group of players, but i've honestly never understood this 'Brits are weak-minded snowflakes' sentiment. We are a tiny wind-battered island in the middle of the sea that took over the world without showing any mercy. The majority of us thought we would be better off on our own in 2016. Even now when we are flat broke bankrupt, with nothing to offer anybody and no logical reason to think we are going to have a half decent life for the next decade, the majority of us probably still think it's all Putin's fault and not our own doing. Brits are a long way from weak-minded.

It's easily understandable to me - rose-tinted nostalgia from those of a certain age for a time when things were simpler and empathy was something one only practiced when absolutely necessary - and then one felt ashamed at such weakness.