Will Alves

[Beachyboy]

13 minutes ago, lee7 said:

It seems like a very strange situation with Alves. 

 

The coaches at the club seem to rate him highly hence the long contract that was handed to him and he looks like a baller who is capable of gliding past players with ease yet he never gets a sniff of real first team action. 

 

It must be really frustrating for him aswell. 

Frustrating would have been the injury, he's training in a PL team and learning everyday, I think he probably learns more in training than he would out on loan in league 1 or two. If the right championship loan can be found however...

[An Away Move]

3 hours ago, baldeagle said:

I know multiple managers haven’t fancied giving him much playing  time and they all can’t be wrong . 

Rodgers was about to give him a first team run before the horror tackle from the Wolves lad. Enzo rated him highly and wanted to play him but niggles got in the way. The lad is fit now. Got assurances in the summer he was part of the first team plans and then, turned down loan moves and the club then got Ayew, Cordova-Reid, Buonanotte, and Bilal in in positions Alves can play in. Him not playing is nothing to do with lack of talent. His development has been royally ****ed over by Rudkin/the club. 
We seem very slow to progress our academy players compared to other clubs. KDH and Barnes come through late. Other clubs and indeed national sides are playing their talented teens. Not us. It makes no sense. Not in terms of player development or increasing asset values. Clubs are using their academies to generate profits. Where is our strategy in terms of talent development, or indeed from a financial perspective. He’s an incredibly bright prospect being treated badly. 

[baldeagle]

7 minutes ago, An Away Move said:

Rodgers was about to give him a first team run before the horror tackle from the Wolves lad. Enzo rated him highly and wanted to play him but niggles got in the way. The lad is fit now. Got assurances in the summer he was part of the first team plans and then, turned down loan moves and the club then got Ayew, Cordova-Reid, Buonanotte, and Bilal in in positions Alves can play in. Him not playing is nothing to do with lack of talent. His development has been royally ****ed over by Rudkin/the club. 
We seem very slow to progress our academy players compared to other clubs. KDH and Barnes come through late. Other clubs and indeed national sides are playing their talented teens. Not us. It makes no sense. Not in terms of player development or increasing asset values. Clubs are using their academies to generate profits. Where is our strategy in terms of talent development, or indeed from a financial perspective. He’s an incredibly bright prospect being treated badly. 

If that’s the case surely he would be forcing himself  into the side or even sub appearances with how he’s performing in training etc . 

[Aleksz]

6 hours ago, lcfc043 said:

Have people considered the possibility he’s not good enough? 

Anyone that’s used their eyes in his brief cameo’s (or has actually put the effort in to watch him at U21 level) knows there’s a serious player there, certainly for the level that we’re heading for at the very least. 
 

Whether the same obscene potential is there post serious injury is another matter, but he’s being managed appallingly. 

[An Away Move]

2 minutes ago, baldeagle said:

If that’s the case surely he would be forcing himself  into the side or even sub appearances with how he’s performing in training etc . 

What do you think it’s done for his confidence and enthusiasm that the club talked him up when the contract was offered and then brought four players in in his position? He’s a talent but only human. The club can do the talk but actions speak louder than words. The pathway to the first team has become much more difficult as the emphasis is on experience. When Ayew and Cordova-Reid drop off Alves will be near the end of his contract. He should walk IMO. 

[Aleksz]

3 hours ago, CaliFOXnia said:

For a little bit of context here - Sammy Braybrooke (who I thought looked a very good footballer, certainly technically) is currently struggling to get even minutes for Dundee. 
 

The men’s game is a completely different beast to youth football, even at the highest level such as internationals which both him and Alves have played. Both are also coming off the back of arguably the most significant injury a footballer can sustain at a very young age. 
 

They’re clearly both very talented and they may well come through here and be the players we seem to expect them to be. They may also not do. The added pressure and expectation around them (IMO) will only hinder. As we saw with KDH and Harvey Barnes, they weren’t setting the first team alight at 17. The club played the long game with them and in both scenarios it paid dividends. We’re struggling and there’s a clamour for Alves, I get it, but putting him in if he’s not ready might not be the best for him or the club. More than happy with minutes here and there and even the right loan move this January. 

The choice of loan for Braybrooke was all wrong from the off. Shocking loan management again from the club, but that’s another can of worms. 

[baldeagle]

32 minutes ago, An Away Move said:

What do you think it’s done for his confidence and enthusiasm that the club talked him up when the contract was offered and then brought four players in in his position? He’s a talent but only human. The club can do the talk but actions speak louder than words. The pathway to the first team has become much more difficult as the emphasis is on experience. When Ayew and Cordova-Reid drop off Alves will be near the end of his contract. He should walk IMO. 

Again it’s also down to him to force his way, look at Mcateer .Kasey isn’t considered the most talented of footballers yet he’s getting starts or sub appearances ahead of him why?
Players  don’t play on a first come first served basis . We all know the kids talented but there must  be something missing in his game which is seen by the  managers and coaching staff as to why he isn’t getting minutes on the pitch . 

Edited 12 January by baldeagle

[CaliFOXnia]

35 minutes ago, Aleksz said:

The choice of loan for Braybrooke was all wrong from the off. Shocking loan management again from the club, but that’s another can of worms. 

100% agree mate, watch a lot of the SPL and he’s been thrown to the wolves after a long lay off and not being the most physical of lads from the get go. Big, big ask to go in at a side like Dundee and play the we he (and we) wants to. 

[Aleksz]

5 minutes ago, CaliFOXnia said:

100% agree mate, watch a lot of the SPL and he’s been thrown to the wolves after a long lay off and not being the most physical of lads from the get go. Big, big ask to go in at a side like Dundee and play the we he (and we) wants to. 

To be honest that was probably the thinking, he was already quite slight to be playing holding midfield and the club probably thought a league where he’ll get kicked up in the air would do him good, but no, evidently not

[LCFCJohn]

4 hours ago, Beachyboy said:

Frustrating would have been the injury, he's training in a PL team and learning everyday, I think he probably learns more in training than he would out on loan in league 1 or two. If the right championship loan can be found however...

If he can’t get near our side (championship quality), he probably has no chance of a loan at that level. He probably needs to go down to League 2 to get minutes.

[Fox on the Rox]

9 minutes ago, LCFCJohn said:

If he can’t get near our side (championship quality), he probably has no chance of a loan at that level. He probably needs to go down to League 2 to get minutes.

Yep. Nelson had to go down to league 2 to get his first two loans, though arguably it's harder for a young CB to get a loan. It worked out well for him with several Championship clubs after him last summer. Shame he's now injured as he was getting really good reviews at Oxford and great experience. Hopefully he'll be fit again soon.

[Guest Dirkster the Fox]

Keeping the lads legs fresh for the The Championship

[Dan]

People acting like we weren't playing against a largely rotated Championship side. For no youth player to even make the bench is ridiculous even if I do sort of get the thinking with naming our first team.

 

Nobody is saying he necessarily comes in and should be starting every game but if we can't give him a chance in a game like yesterday I honestly don't know when we can. There'll be some excuse trotted out for him not going on loan either.

 

It's just another example of the complete lack of joined up thinking.

[Gamble92]

38 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

People acting like we weren't playing against a largely rotated Championship side. For no youth player to even make the bench is ridiculous even if I do sort of get the thinking with naming our first team.

 

Nobody is saying he necessarily comes in and should be starting every game but if we can't give him a chance in a game like yesterday I honestly don't know when we can. There'll be some excuse trotted out for him not going on loan either.

 

It's just another example of the complete lack of joined up thinking.

I agree there should have at least been a couple on the bench because we ended up with the ideal scenario of killing the game early. 

 

But longer term, the way to do it is like how Enzo put Mcateer in. If they're good enough they become part of the first team squad and don't look back. It's never really 10 minute displays in the cup that define them, or make them question whether they want to stay or not. 

[coolhandfox]

15 hours ago, Aleksz said:

The choice of loan for Braybrooke was all wrong from the off. Shocking loan management again from the club, but that’s another can of worms. 

You do know the players has a choice and they may have been the only club interested? 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

You do know the players has a choice and they may have been the only club interested? 

Pretty sure it was well reported that Braybrooke had many offers and specifically chose Dundee as the manager was instrumental in Maddison's successful loan spell at Aberdeen.

[coolhandfox]

Just now, Ric Flair said:

Pretty sure it was well reported that Braybrooke had many offers and specifically chose Dundee as the manager was instrumental in Maddison's successful loan spell at Aberdeen.

Interestingly, you can call a loan spell a failure due to minutes played, but there can be more to it.

 

Ideally, you want them to play minutes 243 minutes isn't enough but there are other things he would have learned from, living away from home, being in a different changeroom/culture, and being in a club which will not be as pampered. 

 

I still think Braybrooke has time to develop, be interesting to see if he recalled or stays. 

[Ric Flair]

37 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Interestingly, you can call a loan spell a failure due to minutes played, but there can be more to it.

 

Ideally, you want them to play minutes 243 minutes isn't enough but there are other things he would have learned from, living away from home, being in a different changeroom/culture, and being in a club which will not be as pampered. 

 

I still think Braybrooke has time to develop, be interesting to see if he recalled or stays. 

McAteer had a similar struggle at Forest Green as Braybrooke has in a lack of minutes. His spell at Wimbledon was mildly better but certainly didn't point to being pretty important the next season in the Championship.

 

Braybrooke has plenty of ability, he just needs game time and a club that will prioritise him over players they own (not always a given)

[ClaphamFox]

56 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Interestingly, you can call a loan spell a failure due to minutes played, but there can be more to it.

 

Ideally, you want them to play minutes 243 minutes isn't enough but there are other things he would have learned from, living away from home, being in a different changeroom/culture, and being in a club which will not be as pampered. 

 

I still think Braybrooke has time to develop, be interesting to see if he recalled or stays. 

He's been recalled:

https://dundeefc.co.uk/news/braybrooke-leaves/#:~:text=Dundee Football Club can confirm,times for the Dark Blues.

[coolhandfox]

4 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

He's been recalled:

https://dundeefc.co.uk/news/braybrooke-leaves/#:~:text=Dundee Football Club can confirm,times for the Dark Blues.

Makes sense, hopefully, we have a loan in L2 lined up. 

[Bob Weasel Fox]

11 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Makes sense, hopefully, we have a loan in L2 lined up. 

Or league 1 he is good enough for that level 

[TheGoldenGod]

Just now, Bob Weasel Fox said:

Or league 1 he is good enough for that level 

Don't say that...Coolhand gets in a tiz for even suggesting it...

[AjcW]

Jon genuinely has been on holiday hasn't he  

[Bob Weasel Fox]

3 minutes ago, AjcW said:

Jon genuinely has been on holiday hasn't he  

Rudkin classic

 

mind you his fax machine is plugged in now ready to do business 🤔😳😂

[coolhandfox]

10 minutes ago, TheGoldenGod said:

Don't say that...Coolhand gets in a tiz for even suggesting it...