Defensive midfield issues

[Scotch]

24 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

As a fan of Hamza's no nonsense game , its nice to see some appreciation on here. The debate  has always been determined by the football snobs. There is always a place for a limited player in a team as long as he knows what he can do well and does that consistently and to a high standard. He does.

The problem with Hamza is and always has been his ability to read the game. 

He always seems to be chasing it. Always reacting to things that have already happened. That's what has stopped him being a starting DM for us. He has the ability to play that role, physically but he lacks the footballing IQ to read what is going to happen before it does. That's why he always seems to be making unnecessary challenges.  

 

What he has going for him is that, that is a skill that can be improved. It's not necessarily something you have or you don't. Hopefully it improves with age and experience. 

 

He does appear to have a championship level of reading the game, if not a PL level and this may come in handy next year. 

[Nicolo Barella]

On 18/04/2023 at 19:24, kiwiturk said:

Putting Cags on defensive midfield position may actually work.

 

We have enough defenders already at least Cags fights, athletic and fast enough to face attacking opposition players before they get into our box also he's got a bit of ball skills as well.

Why not?

 

I have always unironically thought this. I know its not as simple as this, but my caveman brain has always seen his attributes and thought he'd be well suited to it.

[Nicolo Barella]

21 hours ago, Stadt said:

Mendy isn't good enough either, he ticks the ball over nicely, looks neat and tidy enough but he doesn't often win the ball.

 

Our only long term midfield options at the moment are KDH, Soumare and Ndidi. We're going to need at  least one player that can play as a 6 and an 8. Santi Comesana and Yacine Adli fit the bill. 

This isn't the Milan Adli is it? Definitely don't think he's really a 6.

[Stadt]

52 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

This isn't the Milan Adli is it? Definitely don't think he's really a 6.

Yeah perhaps not thinking about it, I’d rather us sign a player that is than shoehorn one but he’s got the potential imo

 

[sacreblueits442]

3 hours ago, deep blue said:

Don't want to re-ignite the Hamza debate but it's certainly true we've been woefully lacking in a solid tackler this season and Hamza certainly fits the bill there.

 

With regard to the idea of pushing Soy up to a DM role, it's a risk and he wouldn't be the same style of DM that Ndidi's been for us, but it's an experiment that could work and we have enough CB's in the squad to allow this.  It would also be a solution that wouldn't oblige us to resort to playing 3 CB's.  I don't like the 3-CB formation for us because it has so often quickly turned into a defensive 5 with us and there aren't enough players up the pitch for a decent out ball.  On the contrary, a player with Soy's abilities as DM would help us to be able to initiate attacks from defense as we did when we had Kante (sigh).

.. not sure on Caglar being moved to a DM role or Soyuncu and Faes not being able to form a partnership!!!

  Judging by the individual players tendency to anticipate in order to win the ball, leaving Faes as the player to stay at home and marshall the defence would be the only option.

  He obviously struggles to read the game and therefore it will be a better situation for him to gain an understanding, as well as maturity in the role. It is evvident that he cannot control his impulse to rush out, so asking him to stay, with Soyuncu being the player to progess us up the pitch or stepping in to win first ball, It just needs an understanding, and not something which we implement on the fly.

[Clever Fox]

Our biggest problem in this area is we signed too many players unfit for purpose.

We need stature and pace coupled with some ability.

Soumare looked a promising signing for the midfield but he hasn't delivered anything yet.

We're going to need a total rebuild of the midfield with the exception of Ndiddi the Summer.

We'll see what the new recruitment team are made of very quickly in the Summer.

[The_77]

On 18/04/2023 at 10:31, davieG said:

Just because I disagree with you I don't appreciate being accused of hating him and not capable of objective viewing.

My son and I commented several times during the game how poor and uninfluential he was until that 10 min spell in the 2nd half when we were amazed at how he had came to life  and didn't look like he was just out for a walk.

“Hating on” = being critical of someone, not hating them. 

[Phenom]

Most of our midfield has been Championship quality this year - so if we drop, they should fit right in. Probably need a bit more toughness.

 

If we stay up we need it to be a full rebuild. Mendy and Youri are out, Ndidi needs to be sold for anything we can get, If Soumare has any value we should try to recoup what we can get, KDH should be a rotation option

[davieG]

1 hour ago, The_77 said:

“Hating on” = being critical of someone, not hating them. 

Either way you were suggesting I wasn't being objective and that hating on him was clouding my judgement.

[The_77]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

Either way you were suggesting I wasn't being objective and that hating on him was clouding my judgement.

If you want to take anything I wrote as some sort of attack on your integrity and your moral character, then, well, I don’t know what to say and none of this is a worth my time. 
 

Enjoy the rest of the season with your son, another Great Escape would be a wonderful thing for you to share.

[The_77]

6 hours ago, Clever Fox said:

Our biggest problem in this area is we signed too many players unfit for purpose.

We need stature and pace coupled with some ability.

Soumare looked a promising signing for the midfield but he hasn't delivered anything yet.

We're going to need a total rebuild of the midfield with the exception of Ndiddi the Summer.

We'll see what the new recruitment team are made of very quickly in the Summer.

100%. I don’t think anyone prepared for the collapse of Ndidi, similar to what we’re seeing with Vardy, and our replacements are just there to see us through. 

[Clever Fox]

2 hours ago, The_77 said:

100%. I don’t think anyone prepared for the collapse of Ndidi, similar to what we’re seeing with Vardy, and our replacements are just there to see us through. 

I've said it before, I think Ndiddi has too much going on in his life currently.

A new wife and Studying for a Degree as well as the Football and his football is suffering.

I also think the way he was being used by Rogers he's also suffering from Burnout.

 

[fuchsntf]

11 hours ago, Scotch said:

The problem with Hamza is and always has been his ability to read the game. 

He always seems to be chasing it. Always reacting to things that have already happened. That's what has stopped him being a starting DM for us. He has the ability to play that role, physically but he lacks the footballing IQ to read what is going to happen before it does. That's why he always seems to be making unnecessary challenges.  

 

What he has going for him is that, that is a skill that can be improved. It's not necessarily something you have or you don't. Hopefully it improves with age and experience. 

 

He does appear to have a championship level of reading the game, if not a PL level and this may come in handy next year. 

I reckon sometimes on past managers scarey tactics..

We have seen games when the reigns have been off, Ffoot football,or just holding but playing box to box…I reckon he’s been more than ok. Playing CB more than decent,but then being  told to be too aware and over defending…

Since Puel we have judged our young high potential players after being reined in on managers too carefull tactics or not to drive forward…A big over compensation we see in the more modern PL today..

[Deebhoy]

Honestly don't know what has happened to Ndidi. A few seasons ago he was playing out of his skin. I know he has had his injury issues but his form is so bad I just don't see any justification for starting him.

[Beachyboy]

9 hours ago, Clever Fox said:

Our biggest problem in this area is we signed too many players unfit for purpose.

We need stature and pace coupled with some ability.

Soumare looked a promising signing for the midfield but he hasn't delivered anything yet.

We're going to need a total rebuild of the midfield with the exception of Ndiddi the Summer.

We'll see what the new recruitment team are made of very quickly in the Summer.

Why would Ndidi be an exception to a midfield rebuild?

[Clever Fox]

Just now, Beachyboy said:

Why would Ndidi be an exception to a midfield rebuild?

Because he's likely to be the only one left here for the start of next season.

Everyone else is going to be off elsewhere.

[deep blue]

13 hours ago, Scotch said:

The problem with Hamza is and always has been his ability to read the game. 

He always seems to be chasing it. Always reacting to things that have already happened. That's what has stopped him being a starting DM for us. He has the ability to play that role, physically but he lacks the footballing IQ to read what is going to happen before it does. That's why he always seems to be making unnecessary challenges.  

 

What he has going for him is that, that is a skill that can be improved. It's not necessarily something you have or you don't. Hopefully it improves with age and experience. 

 

He does appear to have a championship level of reading the game, if not a PL level and this may come in handy next year. 

One of Hamza's last games for us was when he played in a weakened team which nevertheless beat Liverpool.  Hamza acquired himself v well, but he barely got a look-in after that.  Hard for him to develop as a player and improve his reading of the game when he was treated so shoddily by our manager and given so few games.

[Scotch]

31 minutes ago, deep blue said:

One of Hamza's last games for us was when he played in a weakened team which nevertheless beat Liverpool.  Hamza acquired himself v well, but he barely got a look-in after that.  Hard for him to develop as a player and improve his reading of the game when he was treated so shoddily by our manager and given so few games.

Thats why I said that it's something he could have improved upon with experience. 

[Phenom]

Hamza is scared to have the ball passed to him. Not a PL player 

Edited 19 April 2023 by Phenom

[deep blue]

8 hours ago, Phenom said:

Hamza is scared to have the ball passed to him. Not a PL player 

Under Rodgers, all our players have developed that same  mentality!