Tactics Under Maresca

[iancognito]

1 hour ago, Claridge said:

Love to have a young Deane in this side, would improve us no end. Can keep the other two

I've no problem with a plan B or C if we're losing but Deane, Ferdinand, Dublin et al would be lost in this set up. Hoping Cannon is a bit more versatile than Nacho and offers us more as a finisher rather than a creator.

[Lillehamring]

7 hours ago, Guppys Love Child said:

We'll it's a good job I've taken the time to do my homework then.

 

Thank also for the "we" clarification

Yeah, i know it might come across as a bit superior the way i've spoken about this thread, but it genuinely is the most sensible place on the forum.  Personally, i've found it fascinating getting insight from some really knowledgeable posters, as well as us general enthusiastic amateurs

[Lillehamring]

6 hours ago, SuperMike said:

Too many people on here admiring 'The Emperors New Clothes' and thinking themselves oh so clever for doing so.

Let others have their opinions - (I, for one, enjoy being a dinosaur!)  - yuno their view may just be right.

 

Have an opinion, but if it's not discussing maresca's tactics, there are other, more appropriate paces to make it.

Speculating what may or may not happen in the future - sure, anyone could be right - but if we're discussing what has actually  happened so far, all opinions are welcome, but i, personally, would simply ask: back it up, give examples, justify opinions.

[Lillehamring]

6 hours ago, SuperMike said:

Too many people on here admiring 'The Emperors New Clothes' and thinking themselves oh so clever for doing so.

Let others have their opinions - (I, for one, enjoy being a dinosaur!)  - yuno their view may just be right.

 

Also, - The emperor's new clothes? - i think you're confusing your metaphors here - the wins are real, the development is real, there is no fraud, no illusion or trickery...

[Lillehamring]

6 hours ago, Ashley said:

Hull went to a 2-4-4 when playing out. Their wingers were the outball into the CM. It effectively became a 2-6-2 in the second half. They ran at us more too rather than playing passes to get out of trouble. I'm sure there are some examples of it on the highlights. 

@StriderHiryu

Is that so? That would explain why we had so many chances, but, man, they were really there for the taking.  I'd like to think that in a while, teams playing like that against us will be punished.

[Lillehamring]

5 hours ago, messerschmitt said:

I don't think we are copying Man City, More like Brighton, I think the Liverpool style would require far more multiple upgrades. Brighton have got where they are paying similar transfer fees as us.

This is very significant, actually - when we think of that liverpool, we think of mane, firmino and salah - which is a hell of a step up from mavididi, nacho and *insert right wing option here*

[Lillehamring]

5 hours ago, messerschmitt said:

On a slightly different subject but still under the "Maresca Tactics", I feel a lot more confident going into the last 10 minutes of games. Even supporters who aren't fans of Maresca's tactics must think this is better than when we bought on another ineffective defender and camped in our own penalty area.

This actually goes back to what ( @Finnegan ? ) has said about pep and his use of changing pace and intensity as a form of tactical shift - those last 10 minutes of the game we go into turbo mode.  Against Hull from when Vardy came on at 68' - we had over 80% possession and registered 10 shots (3 more than hull had all game), and from 80' we had 83% possession and 7 of those 10 shots.

 

Sure we were chasing the game (i haven't looked at the other games), but that is a ridiculous surge of pressure.

People have been critical of us not being more 'gung ho' - but this shows that we are capable of throwing everything into attack.

 

I feel like i've spent a lifetime hating the spanish national team for how they play, and now we're doing exactly what i hated - ie. 80 minutes of passing the ball around and then going frantic for the last ten minutes!

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, James_lcfc said:

The differences are actually pretty subtle. Definitely there, but not particularly obvious.

 

Enzo is also facing a much, much lower standard of opposition to be fair to Rodgers (Ugh).

 

I mean, I agree with all your points, just offering a bit of balance  

I suppose it comes down to whether you know what you're looking for or not.

 

I hate to resort to the 'us' and 'them' concept again, but i feel like, knowing how maresca wants to play makes it all seem apparent - for example, knowing why vestergaard deliberately stands on the ball i can appreciate how crucial that is to maresca's tactics; for those who don't know, it looks like a clueless player standing waiting for something to happen.

 

Knowledge is power, ignorance is....well, probably grumbling about rodgers and leaving after 85 minutes.

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, l444ry said:

Quite amusing how so many seem to fawn all over Pep's "revolutionary" tactics. Wouldn't deny he's special but with the players he's had at his disposal over the years he damned will ought to be. They would  probably win playing any system, 4-4-2, 3-5-2, 4-5-1 or even bloody 2-3-5. I'm enjoying the Maresca ride for the time being and want him to succeed like any proper supporter but you can't helpm feeling the real problems will start if and when we get back into the Premier League, where good players win games.

But i suppose Chelsea, even us to a parallel degree, prove that having a good squad on paper doesn't always equate to success.

[Lillehamring]

4 hours ago, Guppys Love Child said:

I think in that one sentence alone is the crux of most of the posts so far.

 

Because the differences aren't glaring obvious and the general play is remarkably similar to Rodgersball in appearance (but not in its application I must add,) a group of supporters are getting frustrated. We witnessed a pretty sh1ty 18Mths or so playing a turgid keep ball style with no structure or endgame, so I can appreciate both sides of the coin on this.

At the risk of reopening a BR debate - his time with us will possibly be remembered as the greatest enigma of my lifetime supporting this club.

 

Those first two years were the best i've ever seen a leicester team play (yes, even more than 15/16), the second two amongst the worst.

 

Maybe someone will write a book about WTF went wrong.

[Lillehamring]

3 hours ago, iancognito said:

It's not deriding it as to mock it but you said it yourself "it is obvious that is not how we play" and "that type of football back in the day". That Adams side was great at what it did when it did it but even if he came here tomorrow we couldn't change to that style with these players. My point was not to deride but there's no point being unnecessarily negative about what you perceive our style to be and wishing for a type of football fewer and fewer teams adopt. We've gone for this possession-based style for 6 or 7 years now. We're not going to be clipping it into the channels for Vardy or Nacho, much less hitting a long one for Nacho to flick on to McAteer or Wanya etc.

 

We have two old guys - Statler and Waldorf mimics - sitting behind us moaning for 90 mins every home game about it being too slow and why are we going backwards. I have no idea what they expect. Who are we supposed to go direct to? What's your plan B guys? If there's a bus parked in front of the opposition box, lobbing it forward to our 5'9” strikers isn't workable is it?

 

People know the style, know the aims, yet still seem surprised when we aren't playing Vardy from the start and going more direct.

The worst thing about that is that we had one good season playing that way, we've never historically been a counter attacking team - were we a counter attacking team when we stuck eliott and walsh up front? - hell no.  I remember for years we we're always referred to as a 'set piece team'.  It's insane, it's like - 'well, it worked that time, it's got to work again'.  Madness.

[Guppys Love Child]

1 minute ago, Lillehamring said:

At the risk of reopening a BR debate - his time with us will possibly be remembered as the greatest enigma of my lifetime supporting this club.

 

Those first two years were the best i've ever seen a leicester team play (yes, even more than 15/16), the second two amongst the worst.

 

Maybe someone will write a book about WTF went wrong.

I hope not.  (Trying not to reopen the BR debate here but....)

 

I wouldn't want any opportunity for the little odious cretin to have his ego massaged with him being the focal point of a book. He doesn't deserve the publicity in any light. Be it favourable or negative.   Right no more on the subject from me...😉

[James_lcfc]

7 minutes ago, Lillehamring said:

I suppose it comes down to whether you know what you're looking for or not.

 

I hate to resort to the 'us' and 'them' concept again, but i feel like, knowing how maresca wants to play makes it all seem apparent - for example, knowing why vestergaard deliberately stands on the ball i can appreciate how crucial that is to maresca's tactics; for those who don't know, it looks like a clueless player standing waiting for something to happen.

 

Knowledge is power, ignorance is....well, probably grumbling about rodgers and leaving after 85 minutes.

Very condescending post, but it made me laugh, so thanks.

 

[Lillehamring]

2 hours ago, Craig said:

At the same time we have also lost a number of players who would thrive in this system under Enzo, and have a much weaker side as a result. 

Weakness is a very difficult quality to measure.  There's an argument to suggest that Winks is stronger than even a prime Youri would be in this system, or that McAteer is more suited to the system and thus stronger than Harvey Barnes?

[Lillehamring]

2 minutes ago, James_lcfc said:

Very condescending post, but it made me laugh, so thanks.

 

As i said, i was reluctant to talk about 'them' and 'us'.

 

But it shouldn't be taken as condescending - i'm not saying we're better or superior for studying the tactics behind what happens on the pitch, simply that if you're better informed it's much easier to see things.

 

I remember when i started watching baseball i found it utterly bewildering, after watching a game a day for some time eventually i knew what was going on and now i love the sport.   So i do understand why people are frustrated - my old man (a regular poster here) is still unconvinced by what he's seeing (even though i believe he does read this thread)...

 

 

Honestly, i have an issue with being too concerned with what other people think, i'll be quiet now....

[Claridge]

5 hours ago, iancognito said:

I've no problem with a plan B or C if we're losing but Deane, Ferdinand, Dublin et al would be lost in this set up. Hoping Cannon is a bit more versatile than Nacho and offers us more as a finisher rather than a creator.

If Cannon is anywhere near their level I would be delighted

[iancognito]

14 hours ago, Claridge said:

If Cannon is anywhere near their level I would be delighted

Me too. Hopefully his loan at Preston has given him a bit of a pre-season in this division and he can hit the ground running.

[SuperMike]

.

Edited 9 September 2023 by SuperMike
Not allowed to have an opinion, or contribute in any way re: Lillehamring

[sacreblueits442]

42 minutes ago, iancognito said:

Me too. Hopefully his loan at Preston has given him a bit of a pre-season in this division and he can hit the ground running.

...he seems like the type of player who would make the runs to get on the ends of the pointless crosses that we put into the box!!!

We throw balls into the box willy-nilly and could benefit if we have someone who can actually head the ball, whether by using power or little glances at the near post that ends up at the keeper's back post where it is almost impossible for him to react quick enough.

[sbfox]

I guess just so we don't all lose our heads, the thing that most of the 'pro-Maresca' people are trying to say is that we're simply not going to be playing balls in behind, whipping in 20 crosses a game, or countering at pace. Talking tactics is fine. Pretending that we won't be playing this way for the next 2+ years is just silly. 

 

It's not how we're set up to play and we don't have the players anyway, so you're just going to do yourselves a mischief by pining after the 15/16 glory days. 

[sacreblueits442]

43 minutes ago, sbfox said:

I guess just so we don't all lose our heads, the thing that most of the 'pro-Maresca' people are trying to say is that we're simply not going to be playing balls in behind, whipping in 20 crosses a game, or countering at pace. Talking tactics is fine. Pretending that we won't be playing this way for the next 2+ years is just silly. 

 

It's not how we're set up to play and we don't have the players anyway, so you're just going to do yourselves a mischief by pining after the 15/16 glory days. 

...it is not going to stop these supporters from going to games and backing the team, they just rather have another style being played!!!

Did you watch the interview by Cannon, where he describes his style of play? Pretty much describes himself, Vardy and Daka, playing on the shoulder and running in behind.

[Claridge]

1 hour ago, sbfox said:

I guess just so we don't all lose our heads, the thing that most of the 'pro-Maresca' people are trying to say is that we're simply not going to be playing balls in behind, whipping in 20 crosses a game, or countering at pace. Talking tactics is fine. Pretending that we won't be playing this way for the next 2+ years is just silly. 

 

It's not how we're set up to play and we don't have the players anyway, so you're just going to do yourselves a mischief by pining after the 15/16 glory days. 

Hopefully a top coach realises that we need to mix it up at times. Hull seemed to contain us easily for 70 minutes as we are a bit predictable. As the season goes on teams will have  realised how to nullify us, if we persist with the ‘it’s how we play’ then I think there will be some poor results 

[Lillehamring]

1 hour ago, sbfox said:

I guess just so we don't all lose our heads, the thing that most of the 'pro-Maresca' people are trying to say is that we're simply not going to be playing balls in behind, whipping in 20 crosses a game, or countering at pace. Talking tactics is fine. Pretending that we won't be playing this way for the next 2+ years is just silly. 

 

It's not how we're set up to play and we don't have the players anyway, so you're just going to do yourselves a mischief by pining after the 15/16 glory days. 

We will and already have been doing this - perhaps not too much or as agriculturally as we have previously done, but it is already a part of his tactics.

 

Interestingly, we played balls over the top in the liverpool game and another preseason game where daka played on the wing - if memory serves he was unluckly with a couple of poor/close offside calls, and wasteful on another occassion.

And, just off the top of my head, kdh against cov and nacho against burton were bothe from crosses into the box.

Edited 9 September 2023 by Lillehamring

[Tom12345]

I talked about Ange Postecoglou before and how we should aim to play with his positivity: Never Stop.

 

Watch this to see how he is transforming Spurs.

 

It is not just about creating space and possession, it is about always seeking to destroy (score as many goals as possible rather than running to the corner flag when leading 1-0) and exploiting the space created and possession to create chances, which we don’t do very well so far. Rodgers was simply anti-football.

 

Ange has just about the same amount of time as Enzo, but admittedly he has a lot of anti-football to undo due to Rodgerism.

 

Admist all of this is Maddison who is an absolute bargain, at our loss, for Spurs. Spurs fans cannot believe they got him for 40m (and as it turns out by installments!), when others went for a lot lot more. Havertz went for 105m (not as good as Maddison). Kane, at 31 and with only 1 year left on his contract, Spurs held on for 100m. We remain affected by our poor transfer strategy. But most importantly, it is still unbelievable we managed to be relegated with players like Madders, Barnes, etc in the team. 

 

Here is the link:

 

Edited 10 September 2023 by Tom12345

[dooflip]

On 08/09/2023 at 20:28, Lillehamring said:

Also, - The emperor's new clothes? - i think you're confusing your metaphors here - the wins are real, the development is real, there is no fraud, no illusion or trickery...

But nobody seems to see that we are just playing a variation of puel ball. We’ve been playing it for years. We wanted puel out, the owners obviously didn’t get the memo. I’m still #puelout, and was thought Rodgers reign. #Puelout is not referring to an individual, but the state of our club.