Tactics Under Maresca

[cityfanlee23]

14 hours ago, Dahnsouff said:

If we got promoted, the squad would be strengthened

Which is exactly what Burnley said. Right now they are tactically inept and losing to the most basic passes that nullify their positions. Similar to Marsch's Leeds where a single diagonal route 1 pass would undo their entire midfield and defence, Ironically the space that Ricardo is leaving open is the exact same space Leeds got hammered by in the Premier League, every week Leeds would activate their press and the opposition would just lump it diagonally to the space left by the full back who was pressing into the middle.
I fear that we wouldn't have the finances to strengthen enough to make what we want to do work, as Burnley are also finding out. It then comes down to whether the manager has the ability to be flexible, so far Kompany hasn't really addressed this issue but very early days. Worth keeping an eye on.

[Tommy Fresh]

2 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Which is exactly what Burnley said. Right now they are tactically inept and losing to the most basic passes that nullify their positions. Similar to Marsch's Leeds where a single diagonal route 1 pass would undo their entire midfield and defence, Ironically the space that Ricardo is leaving open is the exact same space Leeds got hammered by in the Premier League, every week Leeds would activate their press and the opposition would just lump it diagonally to the space left by the full back who was pressing into the middle.
I fear that we wouldn't have the finances to strengthen enough to make what we want to do work, as Burnley are also finding out. It then comes down to whether the manager has the ability to be flexible, so far Kompany hasn't really addressed this issue but very early days. Worth keeping an eye on.

They've also had a very hard start to the season

[cityfanlee23]

22 hours ago, cropstonfox said:

Man city would still have won the past Trophies playing 4.321 or 433 as they have the best players.

Players win games ,formations are important but secondary in importance. 

If we get promoted with this squad we will be in a relegation battle regardless of tactics.

They very likely would, but they would also have been far better matched IMO if they were playing these rigid roles. When you have the players capable of playing really fluid and dynamic styles where for the most part a formation is just for paper, and you have midfielders ending up between your own winger and the opponents centre back, and a full back ending up in a Central position and sometimes even outside the box, you can do it because everyone else is good enough to cover. But you do need top class players to make it work.

This is the difference, Man City could play the system of any team in this league, but hardly anyone else can play Man City's system.

[cityfanlee23]

14 hours ago, Tommy Fresh said:

They've also had a very hard start to the season

They definitely have so it will be interesting to see how they evolve, but from what i've seen they are creating their own mess. Their midfield and back 4 is so agressive they leave themselves open to the most basic of attacks.. This was their first goal conceded vs villa (Villa in white), the 3rd goal their defensive line was just as high. Also conceded a couple similar against spurs.

Edited 13 September 2023 by cityfanlee23

[cropstonfox]

41 minutes ago, cityfanlee23 said:

They very likely would, but they would also have been far better matched IMO if they were playing these rigid roles. When you have the players capable of playing really fluid and dynamic styles where for the most part a formation is just for paper, and you have midfielders ending up between your own winger and the opponents centre back, and a full back ending up in a Central position and sometimes even outside the box, you can do it because everyone else is good enough to cover. But you do need top class players to make it work.

This is the difference, Man City could play the system of any team in this league, but hardly anyone else can play Man City's system.

Good point from both sides.But still believe that desire and motivation are equally important to clever tactics.

Great players make great teams.

Mahrez,Kante,Vardy world class players in a 4.4 1,1 won us the premier league.

This was with the support of hungry well drilled top players.Yes football has moved on, but in 2016  4.4 1,1 was old school.

[filbertway]

Never thought I'd see the day people were pining for the brexit Burnley of old

 

I'd definitely wait for them to play some teams that won't be in and around the top 6 before deciding they're useless.

 

 

[cityfanlee23]

1 hour ago, filbertway said:

Never thought I'd see the day people were pining for the brexit Burnley of old

 

I'd definitely wait for them to play some teams that won't be in and around the top 6 before deciding they're useless.

 

 

Love the response but just to be clear, I don't think they are useless altogether, but in their 3 matches this season they have been pretty useless and their 11 goals conceded was just as much their own fault rather than the opposition being world class. Long way to go, but if they continue to play how they are now and they don't fix these glaring high line issues they will go down with a whimper. Either way they will definitely be one of the teams we should be watching as a warning sign should we not improve dramatically between now and the end of the season and we scrape up.

[StriderHiryu]

Southampton Pre-Match

 

This is my take, would love to get thoughts from others on this one.

 

Both teams have a very small sample size to really dissect exactly how they work, but on the surface, it seems like both teams to do a similar thing. Recirculate possession around the team to activate a pressing trigger from the opponent, and then pass it around that team to exploit the spaces they leave behind.

 

The biggest differences I can see is that Maresca prefers to have a fixed block of 5 men back and 5 men forwards, whereas Martin starts that way but commits more and more players forwards as they get more and more possession. This has pros and cons, the pro is that this means they make more chances as they generate more and more numerical advantage. But the disadvantage is that it leaves even more gaps in their team that get exploited on the transition. This is what happened in their 5-0 defeat, every time they lost the ball they were ruthlessly exploited. And here's the thing, Maresca has set our team up to be a team that plays through the gaps at high speed to create quality chances. On paper, if Southampton play the way they did against Sunderland, they will get picked off. This will be the first game we play where the team against us doesn't play a deep block and has the quality to make it matter. That should suit us as the game will be a lot more open.

 

 

^ An example of the pressing structure Russel Martin used at Swansea. This has pros and cons. With so many players around the ball, it makes it more likely to get the ball off a player receiving a pass. But if that player can play out of the press, so many players are taken out of the game, chances are easy to create.

 

 

^ Some Southampton passing stats. The big stylistic difference between us and them is that both their fullbacks invert at times to give them midfield superiority, but they are also the players that are used the most to make passes and circulate the ball.

 

 

^ Russell Martin's tactics at Swansea. They build with just 2 CBs (we do it with 3), but they invert TWO players (both full backs) to make more passing triangles.

 

 

^ Compare that to our team, and you see that Harry Winks is our main man, with Riccy P as his deputy. Vestergaard and Bednarek fulfil the same role in both teams, they are the centre back / quarter back style player that will hold onto the ball for a long period of time before passing it.

 

So the game comes down to this: Does the extra man Southampton use in their build up work to play through us, or do they end up with both fullbacks out of possession, meaning they are even more vulnerable on the transition? For this reason, I think Ndidi might start, because he's better at winning the ball higher up on the pitch than Casadei, even though the latter is a far better player technically.

 

The Right Wing position is one of the most important parts of the tactical battle for this one. Ryan Manning starts at LB but inverts into midfield for the Saints, meaning that any time we turn the ball over, there is a pass on for our right winger immediately. Our system of play already looks to isolate our winger and one of their players 1 on 1, but in this game there will be times when the player is totally unmarked if we find them quickly. And we are good at finding them.

 

Harry Winks and Ricardo need to be on point for this one!

[filbertway]

1 hour ago, cityfanlee23 said:

Love the response but just to be clear, I don't think they are useless altogether, but in their 3 matches this season they have been pretty useless and their 11 goals conceded was just as much their own fault rather than the opposition being world class. Long way to go, but if they continue to play how they are now and they don't fix these glaring high line issues they will go down with a whimper. Either way they will definitely be one of the teams we should be watching as a warning sign should we not improve dramatically between now and the end of the season and we scrape up.

I'd agree and I assume they'd have expected that to be the case. I suppose if you want to be well drilled, you can't keep changing how you play as the players will get no rhythm to their performances. So I suppose you go into those games knowing there's a good chance you'll get slapped.

 

When managers seem to change style for each game I think it likely affects performance levels as a whole and you start seeing meek performances against teams you should be taking the game to. Look at how Rodgers reacted to the Liverpool and Man City games, he stopped backing his style and it was just a downward trend from there.

 

The first big test for them this season is Monday night I reckon. These are the games where they need to make it count.

 

 

 

 

[StriderHiryu]

 

 

This one came up on my YouTube feed today, and whilst it might initially appear to be about Chelsea, it actually goes into why the 3241 system Pep and Maresca use is good at breaking low blocks. We see so much of what Man City were good at in our play already, which is pointed out in this video. A lot of this was new for me, so I found it very interesting!

• Crosses come from our number 8's instead of our wingers. That's because crosses from the byline against a deep block are much easier to defend against.
• Our wingers are good at dribbling and 1v1s so on paper they can go either way against a defender. Helps create more space to make goal opportunities.
• In a 4231 / 433, you usually try to play around a defensive block. In this system, you try to play through it.
• The structure of the 3421 means defenders have tough choices. If you push up, the ball in behind for the striker is on. If you step back too much, the 8's can do whatever they want.
• The 3421 system means attacks should be distributed evenly across both wings and the middle.
• You create goal threats from multiple players, not just the striker.

 

In the clip, if you look at the structure and moves that Man City make, it's near identical to what Maresca is trying to do.

 

In my opinion it's just a matter of time before things start clicking for us. Players need to get used to playing this way and playing with one another. But we already see the movements, the positions and runs into the right spaces. Maresca in his Southampton pre-match mentioned the review with players that stayed and teaching them to control the tempo and playing the right type of pass at the right time to open teams up. It might take us a few weeks and months to get good at that, but I am convinced it's coming!

[davieG]

Might not be the correct topic but there you are.....

 

SCOUTED logo
Cesare Casadei
A cutout photo of Chelsea's Cesare Casadei set against a white background
Stephen Ganavas
August 9, 2023

Who is Cesare Casadei?
It’s hard to imagine Cesare Casadei could ever have envisioned the 2022/23 season he was about to have 12 months ago. The first surprise came with his shock move to Chelsea as he became caught up in the loan deal that saw Romelu Lukaku return to the Blues.

Date of birth: 10/01/2003
Country: Italy
Position: Box-to-box midfielder
Height: 1.85 metres
Preferred foot: Right
Then came the struggles with adapting to England, being stuck in Chelsea’s U-21 team for half the season, before a January loan to Reading allowed him to show his promise, despite playing in a struggling side.

All that experience gained eventually culminated in some remarkable performances at this summer’s FIFA U-20 World Cup, in which the big midfielder earned the tournament’s Golden Ball and Golden Boot awards, scoring six goals in seven games, driving Italy to the final. We had him in our bespoke team of the tournament too,

 

More here - https://www.scoutedftbl.com/best-young-football-players/cesare-casadei/

[moore_94]

@StriderHiryu I am expecting a post with a breakdown and a gif from you later about the build up to that Ndidi goal 

 

Pure Enzo-ball

[sphericalfox]

well, we can't say it's not exciting...

[inckley fox]

How often does the ball go back to this much-vaunted ball-playing keeper, only for us to fail to maintain possession beyond the halfway line? To me he just plays us into trouble repeatedly.

[StriderHiryu]

9 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

@StriderHiryu I am expecting a post with a breakdown and a gif from you later about the build up to that Ndidi goal 

 

Pure Enzo-ball

No pressure eh?

 

So far one big tactical thing to notice is that JJ brought into the team to cut out the long diagonal to Ryan Christie. I haven't seen enough of Southampton play to comment, but this seems like a specific tactic they use, and he's dealt with it well several times already.

[Dames]

Its swim time baby

[HybridFox]

Just know that some wanted Russell Martin 

[CosbehFox]

Absolutely bang on today. Some cracking minor tweaks as well for the opposition 

[worthosoriginals]

Need to get hoofing the ball and we might start winning a few games

[StriderHiryu]

Going to be live on here soon for the initial tactical breakdown:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x_3HIo3r6M

[SecretPro]

Literally shits all over Brendan.

[FoxesWalk]

 

[cityfanlee23]

Huge step forward tonight. I think we definitely need to tighten up on our finishing as we were gifted so many chances and could have scored about 9 or 10. Other teams won't give us such space to play into so these chances won't come as often. But overall massive improvement.

[cityfanlee23]

On 14/09/2023 at 16:33, StriderHiryu said:

 

 

This one came up on my YouTube feed today, and whilst it might initially appear to be about Chelsea, it actually goes into why the 3241 system Pep and Maresca use is good at breaking low blocks. We see so much of what Man City were good at in our play already, which is pointed out in this video. A lot of this was new for me, so I found it very interesting!

• Crosses come from our number 8's instead of our wingers. That's because crosses from the byline against a deep block are much easier to defend against.
• Our wingers are good at dribbling and 1v1s so on paper they can go either way against a defender. Helps create more space to make goal opportunities.
• In a 4231 / 433, you usually try to play around a defensive block. In this system, you try to play through it.
• The structure of the 3421 means defenders have tough choices. If you push up, the ball in behind for the striker is on. If you step back too much, the 8's can do whatever they want.
• The 3421 system means attacks should be distributed evenly across both wings and the middle.
• You create goal threats from multiple players, not just the striker.

 

In the clip, if you look at the structure and moves that Man City make, it's near identical to what Maresca is trying to do.

 

In my opinion it's just a matter of time before things start clicking for us. Players need to get used to playing this way and playing with one another. But we already see the movements, the positions and runs into the right spaces. Maresca in his Southampton pre-match mentioned the review with players that stayed and teaching them to control the tempo and playing the right type of pass at the right time to open teams up. It might take us a few weeks and months to get good at that, but I am convinced it's coming!

Will watch this soon but actually now that I think of it, how many times have we seen that Kevin De Bruyne cross from that right sided 8 position where he either clips it into the back post, or puts in a fast whipped crossed curled across the box. Makes sense!

[Col city fan]

I think Maresca has been a great appointment for LCFC.

He’s tactically good, we’ve signed players sensibly, he’s giving the youth a chance and he’s outed the players he didn’t want.

He’s also very cool. Didn’t seem to give a shite when we lost to Hull and seems very stable and level headed.

I’m really liking what I’m seeing. I’m still confused re Ndidi’s role, but what’s that now.. two for the season already?

LG under Enzo methinks