Tactics Under Maresca

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

11 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

I'll do some actual analysis over the weekend (a GREAT game to watch back again), but here are some of my ramblings today on the Beyond the 90 Post Match.

Very good. Hard to disagree with any of it, and particularly the point about it being a blessing in disguise going down. It’s looking like a much needed chance to reset and have a clear out.

[Aleksz]

2 hours ago, filbertway said:

Was watching with my dad and we were looking at each other chatting and turned to the screen to see 3 of our players running unopposed at the oppositions goal. When we saw the replay of how it come about we couldn't believe it

 

I doubt I'll ever see a defensive performance like that ever again.

 

I'm just embarrassed that I thought we would be carved open like that, I had absolutely no idea Southampton were so suicidal in their style.

 

Even perennial championship manager Tony Mowbray made absolute mince meat of them with a newly promoted team.

 

If they have genuine promotion hopes they'll swallow their pride and sack Martin asap.

 

Interesting to hear that about Norwich. I find it so hard to keep up with teams in this league as I follow Coalville Town home and away, and there's obviously a lot less coverage.

 

Really good having guys like you who can provide that insight mate.   

Mowbray is more progressive than he gets credit for Tbf. They’ll be there or thereabouts I reckon.

[StriderHiryu]

5 hours ago, SafewayFox said:

Great analysis as always mate.

 

Another nod for Ndidi to start is how it creates that extra fluidity in our tactics.

 

I’m surprised Martin took off Edozie as he was their best player in my eyes but Ndidi slotting into a double pivot with Winks made it a lot harder for Southampton to break us down, I loved how quickly this seemed to happen mid game too.

 

Ndidi didn't strictly change his position, it just felt like that. Play got compressed into our half, so we went back to our "starting" shape of 433, so that's a middle 3 of KDH, Winks and Ndidi. It was notable throughout the second half how for every corner Mavididi was the furthest man forward. It was just like 15/16 again when Ranieri did that with Mahrez and Vardy. It's also why he stayed on and McAteer didn't, because that counter opportunity was always on in the second half.

 

4 hours ago, beepee1984 said:

 

 

I don't think the Counter Attack is Plan B, we were 2 up at the time and is likely to be Plan A when Plan A works.

My concern remains when Plan A is not working how do we change it, we can't concede possession and counter when 1-0 down with 10 minutes to go. So Far though I think Plan A has come good. Turned it around against Coventry. Only defeat is Hull and I don't think the system/tactics would have made a difference. We had 21 shots and only 1 on target - it was just that kind of night. I doubt we would have hit the target even after Hull went home

 

 

Yep fair enough, I was being a bit facetious with my comment about Plan B. Breaking down deep blocks will be the issue for us this season, as was always expected.  But still we did play more on the break in the second half, as evidenced with Mavididi.

 

3 hours ago, Corky said:

One of my biggest (of many) frustrations with Rodgers was how we rarely pressed high and let the opposition settle. Last night they were careless  at the back but we had players in position to take advantage.

Our press won us the game last night. It was great to see it back again. Mavididi deserves a lot of praise, he might have been greedy, but he wins the ball back for the first goal and he did it a number of times. Plus once he won it back, he made it count with some great play, such as the assist for Ndidi. It's very Pep-esque, we have talented players, but they need to put in a shift too.

 

2 hours ago, Scotch said:

Our Enzo LOVES JJ doesn't he?. He mentions him any chance he gets and i think it goes back to the first video we ever saw of Enzo going to visit Seagrave during pre-season and JJ being there working and training in his time off. I think that left a lasting impression. 

Very interesting that he's been held in reserve for so long. I suspect he knows he's got the technical attributes, he just needed to improve some positional play and decisions. I think he's picked that up in training and is now ready. The games come think and fast so I expect to see quite a bit of him as we will have to rotate.

 

1 hour ago, filbertway said:

Was watching with my dad and we were looking at each other chatting and turned to the screen to see 3 of our players running unopposed at the oppositions goal. When we saw the replay of how it come about we couldn't believe it

 

I doubt I'll ever see a defensive performance like that ever again.

 

I'm just embarrassed that I thought we would be carved open like that, I had absolutely no idea Southampton were so suicidal in their style.

 

Totally agree. I think we were good, but what were they doing? They made the same exact mistakes as against Sunderland in this one. Martin hasn't got a clue how to structure the team defensively. Classic case of trying to copy Pep but not understanding the nuances. Lampard at Chelsea and Everton was similar, he tried to play pressing football, but players pressed in isolation and left huge gaps. It will be interesting to see what happens.

 

If he was humbler, he would see that his system is a bit too cavalier and make it so that a few more players stay back. Whilst they made mistakes playing out from the back, that's not the main problem, the problem is their structure. You can't leave one man back on the break! For the Mavididi goal the player they left back was on a yellow, so couldn't even haul a player down! Madness!

 

Some people will say "we get away with mistakes" and that's true to some extent. But it's because we have 5 players back, so it gives us a decent chance.

[Chrysalis]

That counter for the 4th goal, its so long since I seen anything like that from us, so we are prepared to vary it a bit, hats good.

 

Also excellent press for two of the goals as well.

 

So improvement is still happening.

Edited 16 September 2023 by Chrysalis

[Scotch]

5 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Very interesting that he's been held in reserve for so long. I suspect he knows he's got the technical attributes, he just needed to improve some positional play and decisions. I think he's picked that up in training and is now ready. The games come think and fast so I expect to see quite a bit of him as we will have to rotate.

 

Could be he was working out where to play him and making sure he was ready to play there. 

 

Realistically, he could play in the Ricardo spot or the Doyle spot as well as the Faes one that he did last night. 

 

I reckon Enzo was ensuring he wasn't just thrown into the deep end of a position he wasn't 100% comfortable with. 

[Lesta2014]

48 minutes ago, Scotch said:

Could be he was working out where to play him and making sure he was ready to play there. 

 

Realistically, he could play in the Ricardo spot or the Doyle spot as well as the Faes one that he did last night. 

 

I reckon Enzo was ensuring he wasn't just thrown into the deep end of a position he wasn't 100% comfortable with. 

And hopefully enzo used his brain in not rushing him into games after some bad injuries, gave him the lower league cup games to get him back in and then a couple sub appearances (I think) in the league before starting him last night. Good man management of him so far 

[Steve Earle]

1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said:

 

Ndidi didn't strictly change his position, it just felt like that. Play got compressed into our half, so we went back to our "starting" shape of 433, so that's a middle 3 of KDH, Winks and Ndidi. It was notable throughout the second half how for every corner Mavididi was the furthest man forward. It was just like 15/16 again when Ranieri did that with Mahrez and Vardy. It's also why he stayed on and McAteer didn't, because that counter opportunity was always on in the second half.

 

Yep fair enough, I was being a bit facetious with my comment about Plan B. Breaking down deep blocks will be the issue for us this season, as was always expected.  But still we did play more on the break in the second half, as evidenced with Mavididi.

 

Our press won us the game last night. It was great to see it back again. Mavididi deserves a lot of praise, he might have been greedy, but he wins the ball back for the first goal and he did it a number of times. Plus once he won it back, he made it count with some great play, such as the assist for Ndidi. It's very Pep-esque, we have talented players, but they need to put in a shift too.

 

Very interesting that he's been held in reserve for so long. I suspect he knows he's got the technical attributes, he just needed to improve some positional play and decisions. I think he's picked that up in training and is now ready. The games come think and fast so I expect to see quite a bit of him as we will have to rotate.

 

Totally agree. I think we were good, but what were they doing? They made the same exact mistakes as against Sunderland in this one. Martin hasn't got a clue how to structure the team defensively. Classic case of trying to copy Pep but not understanding the nuances. Lampard at Chelsea and Everton was similar, he tried to play pressing football, but players pressed in isolation and left huge gaps. It will be interesting to see what happens.

 

If he was humbler, he would see that his system is a bit too cavalier and make it so that a few more players stay back. Whilst they made mistakes playing out from the back, that's not the main problem, the problem is their structure. You can't leave one man back on the break! For the Mavididi goal the player they left back was on a yellow, so couldn't even haul a player down! Madness!

 

Some people will say "we get away with mistakes" and that's true to some extent. But it's because we have 5 players back, so it gives us a decent chance.

Lovely stuff @StriderHiryu

 

My only slightly different take is that out of possession it was like watching LCFC v2022: KDH & Vardy leading the press with two banks of four behind them - pure Brendan-ball!

 

Not sure how often Ricky stepped into midfield (three times? Four?) but I thought he played largely as an orthodox LB in an orthodox back four. Ironic really. We offload three LBs in the window because we don’t intend to play with FBs, then play a RB as a traditional LB!

[StriderHiryu]

17 minutes ago, Steve Earle said:

Lovely stuff @StriderHiryu

 

My only slightly different take is that out of possession it was like watching LCFC v2022: KDH & Vardy leading the press with two banks of four behind them - pure Brendan-ball!

 

Not sure how often Ricky stepped into midfield (three times? Four?) but I thought he played largely as an orthodox LB in an orthodox back four. Ironic really. We offload three LBs in the window because we don’t intend to play with FBs, then play a RB as a traditional LB!

If you look at average pitch positions KDH is the furthest forward! That’s because of his press as you say. When we defend it should be two backs of 4 as it is a 433 out of shape. They had more possession than us so we spent more of the game in that shape than 3421.  Hence Ricardo being further back than usual too. 
 

However, I see what you’re getting at with the Brendan ball style press. KDH pressed way more than Ndidi who is good at it too. I’ll watch the game back but my initial thoughts are that Saints build with just 2 CBs so we press those two, then Ndidi needs to watch out for the inverted fullbacks and their midfielders. If we press with 3 they can bypass us too easily as you need to block passing lanes. KDH presses higher up than usual because we’re going man for man. Look at that chance at 6 minutes, it comes from him pressing THB. Thanks for pointing that out though, that’s definitely a slight change for this game so very eagle eyed! 
 

Ricardo and JJ I’m assuming has something to do with the way Southampton use wingers. I confess I only saw some of their extended highlights so can’t really comment. JJ had the physical beating of Christie and Ricardo fast enough to deal with Edoize? On paper I think I like the sound of JJ versus Christie instead of Faes. Wout better against more traditional bruiser types for me. 

[st albans fox]

20 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

If you look at average pitch positions KDH is the furthest forward! That’s because of his press as you say. When we defend it should be two backs of 4 as it is a 433 out of shape. They had more possession than us so we spent more of the game in that shape than 3421.  Hence Ricardo being further back than usual too. 
 

However, I see what you’re getting at with the Brendan ball style press. KDH pressed way more than Ndidi who is good at it too. I’ll watch the game back but my initial thoughts are that Saints build with just 2 CBs so we press those two, then Ndidi needs to watch out for the inverted fullbacks and their midfielders. If we press with 3 they can bypass us too easily as you need to block passing lanes. KDH presses higher up than usual because we’re going man for man. Look at that chance at 6 minutes, it comes from him pressing THB. Thanks for pointing that out though, that’s definitely a slight change for this game so very eagle eyed! 
 

Ricardo and JJ I’m assuming has something to do with the way Southampton use wingers. I confess I only saw some of their extended highlights so can’t really comment. JJ had the physical beating of Christie and Ricardo fast enough to deal with Edoize? On paper I think I like the sound of JJ versus Christie instead of Faes. Wout better against more traditional bruiser types for me. 

Also bear in mind that soton would have prepared to exploit our rhs on transition ahead of the game. if we are able to switch Ricky in from either side then that makes us much more difficult to plan for. 

[ts_1010]

I suggested that JJ could step in for Faes a while back. Our defence lacks pace once Ricardo advances. So we will always be vulnerable to counters without JJ there.

 

The ball over the top is more difficult when JJ can chase it down as well as the opposing striker.

 

Let's all just pray he stays fit for a while.

 

 

 

[FoxFossil]

Wonder if the Enzo set up is particularly effective away from home  when teams feel they must attack us, leaving space behind. When was the last time we saw one of our players run more than half the length of the pitch to score? Loved JVs comment about Mavadidi learning to pass! 

[Dahnsouff]

The challenge will come when we face teams that press properly and seek to give us no time, this has been our issue for some time, but there was some evidence of an ability to beat this press, so will be interesting to see in earnest.

[moore_94]

 

[Dames]

3 hours ago, ts_1010 said:

I suggested that JJ could step in for Faes a while back. Our defence lacks pace once Ricardo advances. So we will always be vulnerable to counters without JJ there.

 

The ball over the top is more difficult when JJ can chase it down as well as the opposing striker.

 

Let's all just pray he stays fit for a while.

 

 

 

For a system like this to work you need a CB thats quick enough to recover. We’ll look far less vulnerable when teams can’t play it in behind as often. 

[StriderHiryu]

6 hours ago, moore_94 said:

 

Too many passes sideways and tippy-tappy bollocks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 16 September 2023 by StriderHiryu

[StriderHiryu]

Moving onto the next match. Tons I could say about the Saints one, but the matches come thick and fast and feel happy with the previous notes and post-match video.

 

Norwich vs Leicester Pre-Match

 

Norwich have been the surprise package so far in the Championship. Not many people predicted them to even make the playoffs, but so far many neutral fans say they have been the best team in the division.

 

 

^ Their last match. A good win, but looks like they were a bit lucky in this one. The stats back that statement up:

 

 

I also think it's worth looking back at their game against our last opponents, which was absolutely mental:

 

 

^ Some of Russel Martin's kamikaze defending definitely on show here, but I feel like Norwich got away with one here. Super clinical finishing and an outrageous strike from Sara (more on him later), but the stats show they gave away a lot of chances:
 

 

31 shots (!) given away. And not much possession, though I feel like those stats don't tell the full story of the game as they weren't just smashing and grabbing, but did try to make things happen when on the ball.

 

Formations and Style of Play

 

It seems like for the first few games of the season Norwich played a 4312, but changed after Christian Fasnacht got back to full fitness.

 

 

 

^ Their formation against Southampton. Also look at their average pitch position. In this game they were forced back into a more traditional shape.

 

 

^ Their formation in their most recent game against Stoke. Look at their average pitch position for this one, they are pressed right up and more in line with the David Wagner style we saw at Huddersfield.

 

What they are doing in their last few games is pretty clever, and it seems like David Wagner has evolved from his Huddersfield days to go for a more modern setup:
 

 

 

^ When building up, The front two for Norwich drop in to make a box midfield, with their wingers pushing out wide. Quite similar to Brighton's approach, actually!

 

 

^ But when they have the ball in midfield, they change their setup. One of their midfielders (McLean) drops into make a back 3, Sara becomes the single pivot and their wingers invert, with their fullbacks pushing on. This makes them quite narrow, just look at the huge gaps on either flank. However, it does pose an interesting problem for the opposition. Do our wingers push up to press their wide CB's and leave our 8's to follow their wingers? Or do we do it the other way? We will also have our back 3 against one striker for them, so does this mean that our wide CBs match up against their fullbacks? That will be interesting to see.

 

 

^ Gabriel Sara is the highest ranked player in the division so far. He looks like some player, this season's Gustavo Hamer if you will. Everything seems to go through him, and he seems like a really technical player that is press-resistant, creative and with a great engine. Plus he can hit them! But a word of warning for them, as everything does through him, he's the obvious player to target for our press. Maybe Wagner will play another midfielder alongside him to give them a bounce pass, otherwise I suspect we see Ndidi in again, and we get him to press Sara. Turning the ball over from him could lead to trouble for the Canaries.

 

Ashley Barnes signed from Burnley and drops back as their number 10. He's looked surprisingly good for them, holding the ball up really well and linking play. He's always been a right shithouser and up for the physical battle. He'll definitely be a threat at set pieces. However, he could also present a problem for Norwich. Usually, a 10 would be assigned the role of targetting the opposition 6, but I think Winks it way too technical for Barnes. Plus we play two 6's in build up with Ricardo, so even if Norwich put two men up against our double pivot, I think we should be able to get round them both and create space. Let's see if the game pans out that way.

 

 

Potential Strengths and Weaknesses

 

• Experienced
  • Norwich have players like Shane Duffy, Ben Gibson, Angus Gunn and Ashley Barnes. These guys know the division and are proven in it. I'd expect them all to be consistent performers.
     
• Physical
  • The same players are units or know the physical scrap. They could try to slow the game down and make it a physical contest, and this could work well for them.
     
• Slow players
  • Though Norwich have some pace (Jonathan Rowe a star performer this season looks exciting), in general they seem quite slow. I expect them to sit back and try and hit us on the break, but they don't have that many fast forwards to really exploit that style of play. Yes they did get 4 against Southampton, but they are truly kamikaze, whereas we have 5 back. I think Wout Faes will come back into the team because I think he will matchup well with Barnes and we won't need someone as fast as JJ. Justin did have a great game though!
  • Duffy and Gibson aren't the fastest player's either. Vardy started against Southampton, but I can see Iheanacho starting against Norwich. He can draw their centre backs towards him, which will give our 8's easy runs in behind.
     
• Key Injuries
  • Norwich have been pretty unlucky. Onel Hernandez who would be a mainstay is out for 3 months, Josh Sargent is also out till the new year, and he was vital to their play because he led their press. That will for sure change the way they approach games in the next few months and it's not a surprise that performances have worsened since Sargent got injured.

 

Summary and Predictions

 

I expect Norwich to sit in and play more like they did against Southampton than against Stoke. I think they will be solid, but if we show the fluency we showed against Southampton I think we have too much quality for them. Their centre backs are slow, which we can exploit. If we take control of the game we can also quieten the crowd and make it hard for them.

 

I certainly wouldn't write them off, but I feel like we are exactly the type of team they will struggle against, as evidenced in the Southampton game. I think they will get a lot of joy from teams other than the relegated ones and Ipswich given their experience and style of play, but lack of quality will hurt them against teams with explosive forwards.

 

 

 

[KP Fox]

I like winning the ball higher up the pitch like we did for Vards  & Macca's goals against Saints. When we play from the back and score goals it's obviously wonderful too but guess we are going concede a lot of goals by playing this system when we lose the ball when we are trying to attack. As long as we score more than we concede I will be content. Better to watch an entertaining game than a team that often keeps a clean sheet by parking the bus every game. 

 

[Bourbon Fox]

19 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Moving onto the next match. Tons I could say about the Saints one, but the matches come thick and fast and feel happy with the previous notes and post-match video.

 

Norwich vs Leicester Pre-Match

 

Norwich have been the surprise package so far in the Championship. Not many people predicted them to even make the playoffs, but so far many neutral fans say they have been the best team in the division.

 

 

^ Their last match. A good win, but looks like they were a bit lucky in this one. The stats back that statement up:

 

 

I also think it's worth looking back at their game against our last opponents, which was absolutely mental:

 

 

^ Some of Russel Martin's kamikaze defending definitely on show here, but I feel like Norwich got away with one here. Super clinical finishing and an outrageous strike from Sara (more on him later), but the stats show they gave away a lot of chances:
 

 

31 shots (!) given away. And not much possession, though I feel like those stats don't tell the full story of the game as they weren't just smashing and grabbing, but did try to make things happen when on the ball.

 

Formations and Style of Play

 

It seems like for the first few games of the season Norwich played a 4312, but changed after Christian Fasnacht got back to full fitness.

 

 

 

^ Their formation against Southampton. Also look at their average pitch position. In this game they were forced back into a more traditional shape.

 

 

^ Their formation in their most recent game against Stoke. Look at their average pitch position for this one, they are pressed right up and more in line with the David Wagner style we saw at Huddersfield.

 

What they are doing in their last few games is pretty clever, and it seems like David Wagner has evolved from his Huddersfield days to go for a more modern setup:
 

 

 

^ When building up, The front two for Norwich drop in to make a box midfield, with their wingers pushing out wide. Quite similar to Brighton's approach, actually!

 

 

^ But when they have the ball in midfield, they change their setup. One of their midfielders (McLean) drops into make a back 3, Sara becomes the single pivot and their wingers invert, with their fullbacks pushing on. This makes them quite narrow, just look at the huge gaps on either flank. However, it does pose an interesting problem for the opposition. Do our wingers push up to press their wide CB's and leave our 8's to follow their wingers? Or do we do it the other way? We will also have our back 3 against one striker for them, so does this mean that our wide CBs match up against their fullbacks? That will be interesting to see.

 

 

^ Gabriel Sara is the highest ranked player in the division so far. He looks like some player, this season's Gustavo Hamer if you will. Everything seems to go through him, and he seems like a really technical player that is press-resistant, creative and with a great engine. Plus he can hit them! But a word of warning for them, as everything does through him, he's the obvious player to target for our press. Maybe Wagner will play another midfielder alongside him to give them a bounce pass, otherwise I suspect we see Ndidi in again, and we get him to press Sara. Turning the ball over from him could lead to trouble for the Canaries.

 

Ashley Barnes signed from Burnley and drops back as their number 10. He's looked surprisingly good for them, holding the ball up really well and linking play. He's always been a right shithouser and up for the physical battle. He'll definitely be a threat at set pieces. However, he could also present a problem for Norwich. Usually, a 10 would be assigned the role of targetting the opposition 6, but I think Winks it way too technical for Barnes. Plus we play two 6's in build up with Ricardo, so even if Norwich put two men up against our double pivot, I think we should be able to get round them both and create space. Let's see if the game pans out that way.

 

 

Potential Strengths and Weaknesses

 

• Experienced
  • Norwich have players like Shane Duffy, Ben Gibson, Angus Gunn and Ashley Barnes. These guys know the division and are proven in it. I'd expect them all to be consistent performers.
     
• Physical
  • The same players are units or know the physical scrap. They could try to slow the game down and make it a physical contest, and this could work well for them.
     
• Slow players
  • Though Norwich have some pace (Jonathan Rowe a star performer this season looks exciting), in general they seem quite slow. I expect them to sit back and try and hit us on the break, but they don't have that many fast forwards to really exploit that style of play. Yes they did get 4 against Southampton, but they are truly kamikaze, whereas we have 5 back. I think Wout Faes will come back into the team because I think he will matchup well with Barnes and we won't need someone as fast as JJ. Justin did have a great game though!
  • Duffy and Gibson aren't the fastest player's either. Vardy started against Southampton, but I can see Iheanacho starting against Norwich. He can draw their centre backs towards him, which will give our 8's easy runs in behind.
     
• Key Injuries
  • Norwich have been pretty unlucky. Onel Hernandez who would be a mainstay is out for 3 months, Josh Sargent is also out till the new year, and he was vital to their play because he led their press. That will for sure change the way they approach games in the next few months and it's not a surprise that performances have worsened since Sargent got injured.

 

Summary and Predictions

 

I expect Norwich to sit in and play more like they did against Southampton than against Stoke. I think they will be solid, but if we show the fluency we showed against Southampton I think we have too much quality for them. Their centre backs are slow, which we can exploit. If we take control of the game we can also quieten the crowd and make it hard for them.

 

I certainly wouldn't write them off, but I feel like we are exactly the type of team they will struggle against, as evidenced in the Southampton game. I think they will get a lot of joy from teams other than the relegated ones and Ipswich given their experience and style of play, but lack of quality will hurt them against teams with explosive forwards.

 

 

 

You appear to have gone into overdrive this season. Love it, keep it up 

[The whole world smiles]

On 15/09/2023 at 23:47, StriderHiryu said:

 

I'll do some actual analysis over the weekend (a GREAT game to watch back again), but here are some of my ramblings today on the Beyond the 90 Post Match.

Is this a podcast anywhere? 

[StriderHiryu]

7 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

Is this a podcast anywhere? 

Nope just on YouTube. I don't run it, Neel does, but luckily he's a mate and has invited me on. Put that as a comment though, maybe it's something he should do!

 

Whisper it quietly, but I think there should be a Foxes Talk one! There are some great people on here that would make for great banter. If there was one last season, it would have been worth it alone to see @Mark destroying parts of his own house and PC post-match due to rage from seeing Brendan Ball. Perhaps it would have numbed the pain with some physical humour

[5waller5]

On 16/09/2023 at 16:10, Dahnsouff said:

The challenge will come when we face teams that press properly and seek to give us no time, this has been our issue for some time, but there was some evidence of an ability to beat this press, so will be interesting to see in earnest.

Are you joking???

 

We are beating the press literally all the time. The reason Vestie dwells on the ball is to invite the press so that we can play through the lines.

 

The harder a team presses the more likely we are to destroy them! 

[StriderHiryu]

8 minutes ago, 5waller5 said:

Are you joking???

 

We are beating the press literally all the time. The reason Vestie dwells on the ball is to invite the press so that we can play through the lines.

 

The harder a team presses the more likely we are to destroy them! 

To be fair to @Dahnsouff in preseason against Liverpool, after they settled in the game, they destroyed us with their press. But that was a preseason game, abroad and with just a few weeks of training. In the Championship I totally agree with you and would go as far as saying it's suicidal to try and press Leicester. Our system is designed to take advantage of the spaces teams leave, as shown against Southampton. Norwich did play a high press in their last game, it will be interesting to see if Wagner tries it again. He might do, just because it's a bit of a "free hit" game for them.

 

The cup game against Liverpool will be VERY interesting. They may not play their strongest side, whereas we might. The players that stayed with us last season signed up for Premier League football, so playing away at Anfield will always be a motivator. I think Maresca should do it to see how far the team has come. For 20 minutes preseason, we were playing around their press beautifully.

[5waller5]

Just now, StriderHiryu said:

To be fair to @Dahnsouff in preseason against Liverpool, after they settled in the game, they destroyed us with their press. But that was a preseason game, abroad and with just a few weeks of training. In the Championship I totally agree with you and would go as far as saying it's suicidal to try and press Leicester. Our system is designed to take advantage of the spaces teams leave, as shown against Southampton. Norwich did play a high press in their last game, it will be interesting to see if Wagner tries it again. He might do, just because it's a bit of a "free hit" game for them.

 

The cup game against Liverpool will be VERY interesting. They may not play their strongest side, whereas we might. The players that stayed with us last season signed up for Premier League football, so playing away at Anfield will always be a motivator. I think Maresca should do it to see how far the team has come. For 20 minutes preseason, we were playing around their press beautifully.

I agree, the LFC cup game will be very interesting. 
 

For me, pre-season and even the first handful of games were always about the transition to a light version of Enzo’s football.

 

We won’t see the full version for a while still, but the basics of the shapes / responsibilities / movement will only now start to show themselves now. We had some real glimpses of the quality of the system v Saints and previous 2-3 games. In those I thought it was becoming really clear how good we are at breaking through the lines …. Sometimes that easy that we almost go back to do it again just for the hell of it!! It must be exhausting and demoralising to play against! 
 

It’ll be a very brave / foolish Championship side, or a top half prem side that will press us hard. The former will definitely be put to the sword, and I suspect the latter too.

 

Love your post about the Norwich game btw… a lot of effort went into writing such an informative post. Thanks!

[Reginaldo]

1 hour ago, The whole world smiles said:

Is this a podcast anywhere? 

I guess you could download the YouTube file, if a little large…

[Brizzle Fox]

22 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

Moving onto the next match. Tons I could say about the Saints one, but the matches come thick and fast and feel happy with the previous notes and post-match video.

 

Norwich vs Leicester Pre-Match

 

Norwich have been the surprise package so far in the Championship. Not many people predicted them to even make the playoffs, but so far many neutral fans say they have been the best team in the division.

 

 

^ Their last match. A good win, but looks like they were a bit lucky in this one. The stats back that statement up:

 

 

I also think it's worth looking back at their game against our last opponents, which was absolutely mental:

 

 

^ Some of Russel Martin's kamikaze defending definitely on show here, but I feel like Norwich got away with one here. Super clinical finishing and an outrageous strike from Sara (more on him later), but the stats show they gave away a lot of chances:
 

 

31 shots (!) given away. And not much possession, though I feel like those stats don't tell the full story of the game as they weren't just smashing and grabbing, but did try to make things happen when on the ball.

 

Formations and Style of Play

 

It seems like for the first few games of the season Norwich played a 4312, but changed after Christian Fasnacht got back to full fitness.

 

 

 

^ Their formation against Southampton. Also look at their average pitch position. In this game they were forced back into a more traditional shape.

 

 

^ Their formation in their most recent game against Stoke. Look at their average pitch position for this one, they are pressed right up and more in line with the David Wagner style we saw at Huddersfield.

 

What they are doing in their last few games is pretty clever, and it seems like David Wagner has evolved from his Huddersfield days to go for a more modern setup:
 

 

 

^ When building up, The front two for Norwich drop in to make a box midfield, with their wingers pushing out wide. Quite similar to Brighton's approach, actually!

 

 

^ But when they have the ball in midfield, they change their setup. One of their midfielders (McLean) drops into make a back 3, Sara becomes the single pivot and their wingers invert, with their fullbacks pushing on. This makes them quite narrow, just look at the huge gaps on either flank. However, it does pose an interesting problem for the opposition. Do our wingers push up to press their wide CB's and leave our 8's to follow their wingers? Or do we do it the other way? We will also have our back 3 against one striker for them, so does this mean that our wide CBs match up against their fullbacks? That will be interesting to see.

 

 

^ Gabriel Sara is the highest ranked player in the division so far. He looks like some player, this season's Gustavo Hamer if you will. Everything seems to go through him, and he seems like a really technical player that is press-resistant, creative and with a great engine. Plus he can hit them! But a word of warning for them, as everything does through him, he's the obvious player to target for our press. Maybe Wagner will play another midfielder alongside him to give them a bounce pass, otherwise I suspect we see Ndidi in again, and we get him to press Sara. Turning the ball over from him could lead to trouble for the Canaries.

 

Ashley Barnes signed from Burnley and drops back as their number 10. He's looked surprisingly good for them, holding the ball up really well and linking play. He's always been a right shithouser and up for the physical battle. He'll definitely be a threat at set pieces. However, he could also present a problem for Norwich. Usually, a 10 would be assigned the role of targetting the opposition 6, but I think Winks it way too technical for Barnes. Plus we play two 6's in build up with Ricardo, so even if Norwich put two men up against our double pivot, I think we should be able to get round them both and create space. Let's see if the game pans out that way.

 

 

Potential Strengths and Weaknesses

 

• Experienced
  • Norwich have players like Shane Duffy, Ben Gibson, Angus Gunn and Ashley Barnes. These guys know the division and are proven in it. I'd expect them all to be consistent performers.
     
• Physical
  • The same players are units or know the physical scrap. They could try to slow the game down and make it a physical contest, and this could work well for them.
     
• Slow players
  • Though Norwich have some pace (Jonathan Rowe a star performer this season looks exciting), in general they seem quite slow. I expect them to sit back and try and hit us on the break, but they don't have that many fast forwards to really exploit that style of play. Yes they did get 4 against Southampton, but they are truly kamikaze, whereas we have 5 back. I think Wout Faes will come back into the team because I think he will matchup well with Barnes and we won't need someone as fast as JJ. Justin did have a great game though!
  • Duffy and Gibson aren't the fastest player's either. Vardy started against Southampton, but I can see Iheanacho starting against Norwich. He can draw their centre backs towards him, which will give our 8's easy runs in behind.
     
• Key Injuries
  • Norwich have been pretty unlucky. Onel Hernandez who would be a mainstay is out for 3 months, Josh Sargent is also out till the new year, and he was vital to their play because he led their press. That will for sure change the way they approach games in the next few months and it's not a surprise that performances have worsened since Sargent got injured.

 

Summary and Predictions

 

I expect Norwich to sit in and play more like they did against Southampton than against Stoke. I think they will be solid, but if we show the fluency we showed against Southampton I think we have too much quality for them. Their centre backs are slow, which we can exploit. If we take control of the game we can also quieten the crowd and make it hard for them.

 

I certainly wouldn't write them off, but I feel like we are exactly the type of team they will struggle against, as evidenced in the Southampton game. I think they will get a lot of joy from teams other than the relegated ones and Ipswich given their experience and style of play, but lack of quality will hurt them against teams with explosive forwards.

 

 

 

This is excellent. Key observation from me from speaking to a friend who supports Norwich is how pivotal Sargent is to how they set up and play. His loss long term is and will really hurt them. He's that important to them.