Enzo Out? Time for an official thread/poll

[filbertway]

On 15/04/2024 at 17:16, Sol thewall Bamba said:

"Soumare isn't a primary receiver in a double pivot, but what he is, is super intelligent in the cover shadow". 

Well if it isn't Michael Thomas

 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

8 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Well if it isn't Michael Thomas

 

Football is my passion! 

[Guppys Love Child]

6 hours ago, Analysethis said:

Yes the buck stops with the manager, but lets analyse what tools he had to work with. Many left, many out of contract, many on big contracts but not the players they were. Relegated prems squad feeling sorry for themselves.

 

Also lets talk players performance. Away to Leeds, we lose a game that we should have been 4-0 up.It was men v Boys for most of the game but we capitulated after not taking chances. In both games v fellow promotion rivals Ipswich off the hook with late goals, having dominated especially at home. Thats not down to Enzo.

 

I cant blame the likes of Vards, club legend but like all players, time catches up with them and they arent quite as effective. Some of the chances the guy has missed this season has almost been shocking but as I say, its not his fault. In fact the stats say he has had a good season. Iheanacho looks to me like he is winding down his contract and is looking forward to his next move. Ndidi the same, he isnt breaking his back for us and running around like he was.

 

Despite all the challenges, we have seen Mads in goal, Winks, KDH and Mavididi all have very good seasons whilst many others like Riccardo has been resurgent, with hit and miss from most of the rest although that may be unfair on Vestegaard who at times has been outstanding. I still stand by the fact that with all the challenges put to Enzo as a first time Manager here, he does not deserve 80% of our fan base screaming for a change.

Ok you make some valid points.

 

But no one was complaining about the challenges in your first paragraph when we were romping the league and building a point margin. The challenges you quoted didn't seem to hinder us at all then.

 

Fast forward a load of games and our dominance starts to wain. I'm under the opinion ( and so are a number of other posters) "EnzoBall had been sussed out". 

 

Why because other managers have done their homework, looked at what they can change and adapted, be that changing under performing or tired players, a change in formation or even adjusting tactics to combat our " to me...to you" passing bore fest, so their team doesn't get pulled out of shape and keeps discipline, it could be a number of things really,.  But the most important thing is they have taken action.

 

Enzo hasn't, and Enzo won't.

 

He too stubborn and is hell bent on shoehorning EnzoBall on the team to cover everything, every situation, regardless of us winning or trailing. Regardless if the oppositions manager has made a mid match change, it's combatted with EnzoBall.  

 

"It's the way we play, and it won't change as long as I'm here"

 

That's why we are loosing and performing rubbish now, and that's why people are pi$$ed off with him and want shot.  He's stubbornness and inflexibility. 

 

[Bluetintedspecs]

On 15/04/2024 at 17:08, Sol thewall Bamba said:

If it's a "process", would you be confident getting promoted next season if we didn't go up this season? Becasue Enzo would have had more time to instal the vision, the "process" has progressed, so we should be in a better spot no? 

I do not have a crystal ball do you? 

Is it not his first season as a Manager in English Football?

Does this not make him at the beginning  of a journey,  inexperienced,  starting a process no?

You and others don't like the style etc etc , meat and poison , that's opinions for you!  There's an amazing thing in life called having a choice, if it's boring and that bad to anyone,  they can't stand it so badly and are not entertained then they can vote with their feet, is that not a choice you have no? 

[lcfcbluearmy]

On 14/04/2024 at 14:56, Dahnsouff said:

This is true, he is likely to score more than other strikers given chances, but I feel he is no longer as productive to wider team as once he was.

Still scored 14 goals in the league this season though

[Dahnsouff]

1 hour ago, lcfcbluearmy said:

Still scored 14 goals in the league this season though

Which fits with what I said, no?  

[ClaphamFox]

16 hours ago, Guppys Love Child said:

Ok you make some valid points.

 

But no one was complaining about the challenges in your first paragraph when we were romping the league and building a point margin. The challenges you quoted didn't seem to hinder us at all then.

 

Fast forward a load of games and our dominance starts to wain. I'm under the opinion ( and so are a number of other posters) "EnzoBall had been sussed out". 

 

Why because other managers have done their homework, looked at what they can change and adapted, be that changing under performing or tired players, a change in formation or even adjusting tactics to combat our " to me...to you" passing bore fest, so their team doesn't get pulled out of shape and keeps discipline, it could be a number of things really,.  But the most important thing is they have taken action.

 

Enzo hasn't, and Enzo won't.

 

He too stubborn and is hell bent on shoehorning EnzoBall on the team to cover everything, every situation, regardless of us winning or trailing. Regardless if the oppositions manager has made a mid match change, it's combatted with EnzoBall.  

 

"It's the way we play, and it won't change as long as I'm here"

 

That's why we are loosing and performing rubbish now, and that's why people are pi$$ed off with him and want shot.  He's stubbornness and inflexibility. 

 

Yes. But to be be more specific, I think what's happened is that is that teams that  seek primarily to nullify us (rather than impose their own game on us) have sussed out how to do so. They've studied the way we play and figured out how to set themselves up to make it harder for us to score. Our poorest performances since Christmas have all come in these types of games - the losses against QPR at home, and Millwall and Plymouth away, being the prime examples. When teams attack us, we tend to perform much better. We might not always win these games - see Leeds away - but we invariably create enough chances to win when other teams have a go at us.

 

The other problem is that while this has been happening, our efficiency in front of goal has collapsed - some of the chances we've missed have defied belief. Even in games where we've really struggled, we've still usually created enough chances to get something - but our early-season goalscoring form has deserted us. If we'd have put away just a few of the sitters that Daka and Vardy have missed, we'd probably be promoted already.

 

Your point about Enzo's stubbornness is correct, though. I don't think there's anything wrong with having his preferred formation and style as our baseline approach, but his refusal to change things when it's not working is his glaring weakness as a manager. It may well be down to inexperience - he has the blinkered arrogance of an idealistic teenager who believes in something so strongly he just can't accept that sometimes other ideas are also valid. If he has ambitions to be a top manager, he'll need to significantly improve his in-game management. Hopefully this season has taught him a thing or two.

 

If we go up, which I believe we will, next season will be a different kind of challenge. Very few teams will park the bus against us, even at the KP. They'll all fancy their chances against us. This will give us more space to attack but will give us a much bigger challenge defensively. We'll likely need to play on the counter-attack a lot more. Let's hope Enzo is flexible enough to understand this - because if he tries to steer us through a PL season (with a points deduction!) with the same rigid idealism as he has shown this season, he'll be gone by Christmas.

 

 

 

[lcfcbluearmy]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

Which fits with what I said, no?  

Yes didn't mean to come across as disagreeing just highlighting that despite not being the player he used to be" he is still very good and scores alot of goals

[Bluetintedspecs]

On 15/04/2024 at 19:39, Gubbins said:

I genuinely feel the main reason for the vitriol is that it now seems the majority maybe even the vast majority absolutely hate Marescas style of play. It was rumbling in the background even when we were winning. Now with the wheels hanging on by increasingly loose screws there's nothing stopping people venting about it and his absolute refusal to make any changes just cranks the annoyance up even more.

As per my original comment,  he clearly isn't beyond criticism or reproach,  however,  all said and done isn't there some mid ground where it s not all in or all out ? 

Reality is people have opinions and  choices , in a circa 30k home attendance there will be varying opinions and reactions to events defeats. After last seasons debacle and the resultant mess including the financial horror show ,the on field situation could have gone very differently! The squad shouldn't have gone down but did but despite the ' this squad is way to good for the Championship' rhetoric we all know it often doesn't work that way.

Sometimes it appears that elements aren't happy unless they're moaning and will never be happy ! That is every single person's perogative,  however, it doesn't mean anyone's opinion is right or constructive,  including mine , it's just opinions! If people are genuinely that unhappy then exercise your right at the end of the season and don't renew is probably the best cos if you're not enjoying it why pay? I would hazard a guess that your 'vast majority'  is more like a very vocal minority reacting to frustration and getting twitchy at the business end of the season! 

Just my opinion mind! UTC 👊🦊

[Guppys Love Child]

3 hours ago, ClaphamFox said:

Yes. But to be be more specific, I think what's happened is that is that teams that  seek primarily to nullify us (rather than impose their own game on us) have sussed out how to do so. They've studied the way we play and figured out how to set themselves up to make it harder for us to score. Our poorest performances since Christmas have all come in these types of games - the losses against QPR at home, and Millwall and Plymouth away, being the prime examples. When teams attack us, we tend to perform much better. We might not always win these games - see Leeds away - but we invariably create enough chances to win when other teams have a go at us.

 

The other problem is that while this has been happening, our efficiency in front of goal has collapsed - some of the chances we've missed have defied belief. Even in games where we've really struggled, we've still usually created enough chances to get something - but our early-season goalscoring form has deserted us. If we'd have put away just a few of the sitters that Daka and Vardy have missed, we'd probably be promoted already.

 

Your point about Enzo's stubbornness is correct, though. I don't think there's anything wrong with having his preferred formation and style as our baseline approach, but his refusal to change things when it's not working is his glaring weakness as a manager. It may well be down to inexperience - he has the blinkered arrogance of an idealistic teenager who believes in something so strongly he just can't accept that sometimes other ideas are also valid. If he has ambitions to be a top manager, he'll need to significantly improve his in-game management. Hopefully this season has taught him a thing or two.

 

If we go up, which I believe we will, next season will be a different kind of challenge. Very few teams will park the bus against us, even at the KP. They'll all fancy their chances against us. This will give us more space to attack but will give us a much bigger challenge defensively. We'll likely need to play on the counter-attack a lot more. Let's hope Enzo is flexible enough to understand this - because if he tries to steer us through a PL season (with a points deduction!) with the same rigid idealism as he has shown this season, he'll be gone by Christmas.

 

 

 

I think my friend we are near as damn it on the same page (good post by the way)

Bold bits 

1.  It's much what I said, and I agree.

 

2. Our finishing recently is horrendous, and time for a change (Cannon) as its certainly not helping the cause, but EnzoBall still for me is the biggest factor.  Dump or adapt it and pop on a 2nd striker and you just never know.

 

3. Spot on with Enzo, and it's just as bad when they are early 20's also..I know, I have one 😜

 

4. Forget counter attack. He just won't change.

And I agree, if EnzoBall as we see it is deployed (and sadly IMO I think it will) HOPEFULLY the club see's sence after a few weapon grades spankings and get shot  (if finances permit that is) 

 

I'm just praying that regardless of promotion or not that once the football authorities have imposed their sanctions he see's he's not getting the players he feels he need's and jumps ship.

[Dr The Singh]

On 18/04/2024 at 15:45, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Football is my passion! 

Sex is mine, doesn't mean im good at it

[leatherhead32]

2 hours ago, Bluetintedspecs said:

As per my original comment,  he clearly isn't beyond criticism or reproach,  however,  all said and done isn't there some mid ground where it s not all in or all out ? 

Reality is people have opinions and  choices , in a circa 30k home attendance there will be varying opinions and reactions to events defeats. After last seasons debacle and the resultant mess including the financial horror show ,the on field situation could have gone very differently! The squad shouldn't have gone down but did but despite the ' this squad is way to good for the Championship' rhetoric we all know it often doesn't work that way.

Sometimes it appears that elements aren't happy unless they're moaning and will never be happy ! That is every single person's perogative,  however, it doesn't mean anyone's opinion is right or constructive,  including mine , it's just opinions! If people are genuinely that unhappy then exercise your right at the end of the season and don't renew is probably the best cos if you're not enjoying it why pay? I would hazard a guess that your 'vast majority'  is more like a very vocal minority reacting to frustration and getting twitchy at the business end of the season! 

Just my opinion mind! UTC 👊🦊

i get the frustration even at times when we had what some thought uncatchable lead , ditto with any1 who hit the roof after millwall and plymouth garbage , and its good that we chew the fat about it esp'ly on forum as all can post it without interruptions ie  in a boozer . i will never get through people who moan whatever the situation but we can only tell who they are if we sit near em or know them and there are plenty dotted around , maybe the new stand when built can be exclusive to these folk , with warm beer cold tea n coffee and stale cobs , 1970s filbert st pen 3 and 4 bogs  no loo roll or loo doors  and overflowing urinals ( oh happy days seats made of material that gives off static shocks and a restricted view due to the thick mesh . moan now . 

[Bluetintedspecs]

9 minutes ago, leatherhead32 said:

i get the frustration even at times when we had what some thought uncatchable lead , ditto with any1 who hit the roof after millwall and plymouth garbage , and its good that we chew the fat about it esp'ly on forum as all can post it without interruptions ie  in a boozer . i will never get through people who moan whatever the situation but we can only tell who they are if we sit near em or know them and there are plenty dotted around , maybe the new stand when built can be exclusive to these folk , with warm beer cold tea n coffee and stale cobs , 1970s filbert st pen 3 and 4 bogs  no loo roll or loo doors  and overflowing urinals ( oh happy days seats made of material that gives off static shocks and a restricted view due to the thick mesh . moan now . 

🤣Those were the days my friend