Hullfox Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 100% correct. I hope he has a great game tonight. That's where you differ from a few on here. I reckon some would prefer the team and in particular him to fail so they can say "told you so"
Daggers Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 I'd love him to do well tonight ... ... but I remain absolutely baffled as to why he gets picked. I don't hate him, I simply place him in the basket of joke players that every England manager is obligated to select [like Phil Neville and Carlton 'CARLTON!' Palmer]. I don't remember a decent performance for England and reckon that we have better players in Germany for the role. ... and here's another 'but' ... "fans" that boo him should have their bloody nackers cut off with rusty blunt blades! They are not fans ~ who is thick enough to believe that booing improves a teams performance?!
The People's Hero Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 I'd love him to do well tonight ... ... but I remain absolutely baffled as to why he gets picked. I don't hate him, I simply place him in the basket of joke players that every England manager is obligated to select [like Phil Neville and Carlton 'CARLTON!' Palmer]. I don't remember a decent performance for England and reckon that we have better players in Germany for the role. ... and here's another 'but' ... "fans" that boo him should have their bloody nackers cut off with rusty blunt blades! They are not fans ~ who is thick enough to believe that booing improves a teams performance?! Absolutely correct.
Ric Flair Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 Hargreaves will become a cult hero soon with England fans. He will score tonight.
holly Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 Hargreaves will become a cult hero soon with England fans. He will score tonight. god i hope he doesnt get the chance to! i dont like him, dont like the way he plays he aint good enough to be in the squad! even ian wright agrees he shouldnt be there he made a comment about it on telly after the jamacia game
davieG Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 god i hope he doesnt get the chance to! i dont like him, dont like the way he plays he aint good enough to be in the squad! even ian wright agrees he shouldnt be there he made a comment about it on telly after the jamacia game Has made a real name for himself as a successful Manager - not. But he's a good laugh and a typical football fan, long may he continue but let's not take his views too seriously.
Anish Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 That's where you differ from a few on here. I reckon some would prefer the team and in particular him to fail so they can say "told you so" Almost correct. I want the team to do well but I also want Hargreaves to prove me right. So many people here have turned a blind eye to his pathetic attempts at playing football for England over the last 2 years and are prepared to forgive and forget if he plays well tonight. I'm not, and I'm not afraid to admit it. One performance will not change my opinion of him, but if he does play poorly (again) I'm not going to be scared to say 'I told you so'. What's wrong with being proved right or wrong? I will judge players based on what I see over a period of time, not a one off performance. I haven't seen Hargreaves play for Bayern so I'm not buying into this talk of him being indispensible to their team etc. But what I have seen of him for England has been nothing short of woeful. That's why he has been lamented by many fans and the media alike.
Leicester Lass Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 Almost correct. I want the team to do well but I also want Hargreaves to prove me right. So many people here have turned a blind eye to his pathetic attempts at playing football for England over the last 2 years and are prepared to forgive and forget if he plays well tonight. I'm not, and I'm not afraid to admit it. One performance will not change my opinion of him, but if he does play poorly (again) I'm not going to be scared to say 'I told you so'. What's wrong with being proved right or wrong? I will judge players based on what I see over a period of time, not a one off performance. I haven't seen Hargreaves play for Bayern so I'm not buying into this talk of him being indispensible to their team etc. But what I have seen of him for England has been nothing short of woeful. That's why he has been lamented by many fans and the media alike.
martyn Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 I usually agree with you Anish but not this time. I don't think Hargreaves has been 'woeful'. He's had 7 starts for England, of which probably only 2 were in central midfield, the rest were on the left hand side (where he had a couple of decent performances pre world cup and at WC 2002 itself). Conversely I don't think anyone can say he's been particularly good but circumstances have meant it's difficult for him to make an impact. If you think it's fair to judge people on mostly cameo appearances (often out of position) then that's your prerogative but a player like Hargreaves is bound to find it difficult to make in impact off the bench being a defensive midfielder. It's like asking Nicky Butt (in his england days) on for 10 minutes to impress. I disagree with your final statement as well. The fact he plays in Germany doesn't help in that we don't get a chance to form a positive opinion of him beforehand (hence why players like Gerrard and Lampard can continually get away with mediocre international performances). Journalists and pundits then get in the act and have a massive bearing on influencing opinions as they themselves express ignorance. The 'live rating' on the BBC website of 4.4 for Hargreaves after the Paraguay game (where he made 2 important challenges and 1 mishit clearance) was an absolute joke and showed to highlight engrained views. This article was interesting reading, and certainly I agree with the Jenas points. http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/worldcup06/200...im_of_litt.html
The People's Hero Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 I agree that Gerrard and Lampard have looked mediocre in both our two World Cup games and indeed in past International games. The argument which some people have raised arguing that Hargreaves is not rated in this country because he plays abroad has weaknesses. Beckham and Owen were both pretty much ever presents whilst playing abroad. Only Beckham got a little stick at times, although I always thought he has given 100% for England and is not deserving of such criticism. I believe Walcott, Hargreaves, Jenas and Downing are all extremely lucky to be there. As I've said in past threads.. I don't HATE Hargreaves. I don't even dislike him. It's Sven who seemingly rates him and thinks he can do a job in that system. I haven't seen anything to suggest he can. Sven is a football manager with a lot of experience and a lot of success. I am not. I will trust him but personally do not believe Hargreaves is up to it. I support him - but I don't think he's good enough. Pulling on an England jersey will get you my support (unless you're Lee Bowyer) but it doesn't make you a better player. Hargreaves or Jenas though? Both are lightweight bottlers. I'd have played Carrick
Hullfox Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 Almost correct. I want the team to do well but I also want Hargreaves to prove me right. So many people here have turned a blind eye to his pathetic attempts at playing football for England over the last 2 years and are prepared to forgive and forget if he plays well tonight. I'm not, and I'm not afraid to admit it. One performance will not change my opinion of him, but if he does play poorly (again) I'm not going to be scared to say 'I told you so'. What's wrong with being proved right or wrong? I will judge players based on what I see over a period of time, not a one off performance. I haven't seen Hargreaves play for Bayern so I'm not buying into this talk of him being indispensible to their team etc. But what I have seen of him for England has been nothing short of woeful. That's why he has been lamented by many fans and the media alike. Thats absolutely fair Anish but don't expect other people to change their views either on the basis of one performance. From your language, I fear the man has no chance of redeeming himself with you but I'm pretty sure he'll not lose too much sleep over what either of us has to say.
holly Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 did well tonight, well he didnt do much wrong! opinions can be changed but he still needs to get stuck in more! thing is every fan has players they really dislike many people didnt like joey there views were more than likely changed on him for his performances for us this season! i am sure if hargreaves can prove himself people will change there views on him! i for 1 can be changed i hope he can change me!
The People's Hero Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 I thought that he, like most of the midfield looked very ordinary tonight and in the second half was completely anonymous. They just played through us. 2 good goals and we topped the group. That's about all I can say on a positive note tonight. Joe Cole did look exceptional in patches -that left hand side has gone within less than a year from being a real concern to our biggest attacking threat with the Cole/Cole combination. Second half was fu cking dismal folks.
Anish Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 First half was a good performance by Hargreaves, was neat and tidy and kept it simple (unlike 'Hollywood ball' Beckham). Second half he went absent like everyone else so I won't slate him any more than the others. He should be satisfied with his performance and I'll admit he played better than I expected.
The People's Hero Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 First half was a good performance by Hargreaves, was neat and tidy and kept it simple (unlike 'Hollywood ball' Beckham). Second half he went absent like everyone else so I won't slate him any more than the others. He should be satisfied with his performance and I'll admit he played better than I expected. Fair assessment.
Daggers Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 First half was a good performance by Hargreaves, was neat and tidy and kept it simple (unlike 'Hollywood ball' Beckham). Second half he went absent like everyone else so I won't slate him any more than the others. He should be satisfied with his performance and I'll admit he played better than I expected. Agreed - but I reckon he was not quite as AWOL as others
Hullfox Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 He should be satisfied with his performance and I'll admit he played better than I expected. F*** Me
Daggers Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 F*** Me Rather not if it's ok with you love, feeling a bit annoyed tonight
Ultra Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 Agreed - but I reckon he was not quite as AWOL as others He did well enough to keep his place. Lampard and Beckham were again well below the standard they are capable of. Unless they improve in the games to come, we haven't got a prayer.
Bert Posted 20 June 2006 Posted 20 June 2006 I thought he played well tonight, he done what he had to do and he did it well.
Babylon Posted 21 June 2006 Posted 21 June 2006 He played how I knew he could play which is why I never slagged the guy off when everyone else did. I hope a few more people change thir opinoins of the guy now he has actually started a game for England in his natural position. I'd be more concerned about Lampard at the moment than Hargreaves.
Fez of Mahrez Posted 21 June 2006 Posted 21 June 2006 I thought he was excellent first half. He's not the sort of player you notice all the time, not much flashy stuff but we dominated the midfield and Lampard and Beckham were both pretty anonymous. Cole and Hargreaves were really good. Second half we did our usual midfield-goes-AWOL thing. On a side note, funny to think that in this tournament our best player has been our left winger, after all the fuss about that position for years and years.
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