Should Fryatt automatically get back in the team?

[Ric Flair]

When you consider Fryatt's two and Hammond three plus the penalty he won, our strikers are showing up a bit better than people think overall but we've got to be careful not to judge everything on the actual goals because it IS a team effort.

All three can be greedy at times and if their goals tally is all selection will be based on they'll be more greedy. What I pointed out is that the team is consistently scoring more with Hammond around.

There could be reasons other than just Hammond for that but I wouldn't want to go back from there. Using all three, however, we may do even better and there have certainly been two or three occasions lately when there were opportunities to try such an approach in an effort to change the game.

We need to find out how well such an alternative approach can work.

I rarely think much of like-for-like changes. Apart from injuries, changes aimed at winning games should pose the opposition new problems, invite make them to shuffle their own system a bit and perhaps get caught out.

I'll drink to that Thrac.

[Thracian]

Many a person feels it would be good to bring Fryatt back from the bench - if he's rushed he could well injure himself again. It also shows him, as I said before, that he isn't always guaranteed to play and could give him incentive he needs to start scoring goals.

The main strikers thing, O'Grady can hold the ball up well, but other than that he's displayed that he is a slow Elvis Hammond, and there are people on here that don't even want Elvis to play, so they definitely will not call for COG in. Also, I can't see RK calling up Gradel this season unless we have more injuries than we have atm, and so I think you should put that one to rest right now I'd like to see him play if he's as good as the stats show and you make him out to be, but with Low and Sylla playing in the team, and RK having used Hughes, Maybury and Stearman there this season as well, it won't happen this term you'd have to think.

If anything though, I wouldn't play 3-4-3 for us as we don't have enough midfielders who can stay fit AND win the ball, so if the formation were to change, I reckon it'd be a safer alternative to play 4 at the back, a la 4-3-3 (which I have outlined already in this thread).

I only mention Gradel because he is a specialist goalscoring right winger. We don't have any others. And right now, if I were manager, and considering that nothing works properly down the right, I would have him on the bench to see how he went for the last 20-30 minutes of the next few games.

I'd have Porter on to start, because I know that he is a competent footballer whose passing will only be made easier in the side we've got now and because I could rely on him in siatuons all over the field.

There's no doubt Gradel is a less mature footballer than Porter. He is NOT,NOT,NOT the finished article and might even falter at the final hurdle. But Trevor Francis, George Best and others were all kids when they started on the wing and those were the days when you'd spend the first 20 minutes being viciously hacked by the full-back and learning nothing more than to leap 10 feet from a standing start.

But, with the competence we now have in the team, it is not so much what Gradel can't do that bothers me, as utilising what he can do. And he can attack a full back, he can put a dangerous cross in at pace and he can be bloody lethal in and around the box, where he frequently is.

When do Low or Sylla get in the box for shots?. I doubt Sylla's had eight shots since he came here. Gradel's scored 18/20 goals in less than that time - and some real beauties. Low looked lively in his first game and has probably had 6-8 worthwhile shots himself.

Between the two I don't think they've mustered a single League goal in a combined total of 40+ games.

So what are we risking finding out about Gradel? Strength in the tackle? Defensive cover? Non-stop harrassing. Both have at least tried in that department but they are not naturals. If that's as much as you want then Stearman/Maybury, even Hughes would do. But it's not.

We need to find out. Or change the system a bit. I'd do both at various times.

[Thracian]

I'll drink to that Thrac.

They are much better problems to think about than last season's.

[MBK]

When you consider Fryatt's two and Hammond three plus the penalty he won, our strikers are showing up a bit better than people think overall but we've got to be careful not to judge everything on the actual goals because it IS a team effort.

All three can be greedy at times and if their goals tally is all selection will be based on they'll be more greedy. What I pointed out is that the team is consistently scoring more with Hammond around.

There could be reasons other than just Hammond for that but I wouldn't want to go back from there. Using all three, however, we may do even better and there have certainly been two or three occasions lately when there were opportunities to try such an approach in an effort to change the game.

We need to find out how well such an alternative approach can work.

I rarely think much of like-for-like changes. Apart from injuries, changes aimed at winning games should pose the opposition new problems, invite them to shuffle their own system a bit and perhaps get caught out.

besides wont be a **** nose but ankle injuries do show a very high recurrance rate because it involves a complex sum of ligaments that require a certain amount of stretching after inactivity...thus he needs more time training...take note kelly of what the lcfc medic setup says

[lcfc_jme]

I only mention Gradel because he is a specialist goalscoring right winger. We don't have any others. And right now, if I were manager, and considering that nothing works properly down the right, I would have him on the bench to see how he went for the last 20-30 minutes of the next few games.

I'd have Porter on to start, because I know that he is a competent footballer whose passing will only be made easier in the side we've got now and because I could rely on him in siatuons all over the field.

There's no doubt Gradel is a less mature footballer than Porter. He is NOT,NOT,NOT the finished article and might even falter at the final hurdle. But Trevor Francis, George Best and others were all kids when they started on the wing and those were the days when you'd spend the first 20 minutes being viciously hacked by the full-back and learning nothing more than to leap 10 feet from a standing start.

But, with the competence we now have in the team, it is not so much what Gradel can't do that bothers me, as utilising what he can do. And he can attack a full back, he can put a dangerous cross in at pace and he can be bloody lethal in and around the box, where he frequently is.

When do Low or Sylla get in the box for shots?. I doubt Sylla's had eight shots since he came here. Gradel's scored 18/20 goals in less than that time - and some real beauties. Low looked lively in his first game and has probably had 6-8 worthwhile shots himself.

Between the two I don't think they've mustered a single League goal in a combined total of 40+ games.

So what are we risking finding out about Gradel? Strength in the tackle? Defensive cover? Non-stop harrassing. Both have at least tried in that department but they are not naturals. If that's as much as you want then Stearman/Maybury, even Hughes would do. But it's not.

We need to find out. Or change the system a bit. I'd do both at various times.

I know why you're mentioning Gradel week-in week-out, that much is painfully obvious to me from reading reports on the OS and looking at stats from the academy side. What strikes me as strange though is the fact that RK hasn't yet included him based on what everyone says about him and how well he performs for the academy side. Maybe it's a case of not wanting to bring in too many untried and untested players at any one time, or maybe it's just because Kelly doesn't realise there's a problem. I can understand what you're saying about Sylla and Low Thrac, but seriously, Kelly probably feels, like many people do on here, that the two of them could do a good job between them for us, and for that reason he is persisting with them. Either that or they are absoutely immense in training for us. But then you'd have to ask yourself why could they do it in training and not on a matchday.

I'm not saying I want anyone in ahead of Gradel, I'm not saying I want Gradel to play every game, I'm just trying to think like Kelly is atm and actually be realistic instead of dreaming up some fantasy in my head about a team full of out and out attacking players. We don't have that here and we won't have for some time, so I'm looking at alternatives to Low and Sylla that do not include more academy players. They will get their chance, and I wish them all the best, but it won't be now and I can't see it being soon as players start to come off of the injury table.

Changing the system a little bit would be a better alternative to having Silly and Low on the field, playing 4-3-3 is maybe something to be looked at. Maybe we could look at players like Gradel in the first team during international breaks when we have behind-closed-doors friendlies, or, maybe when our league position is confirmed and we can neither move significantly up or down in the league towards the back end of the season. Seriously whilst the league is as tight as what it currently is, Kelly will not mess about with the kids.

[Mark]

Maybe we could look at players like Gradel in the first team during international breaks when we have behind-closed-doors friendlies, or, maybe when our league position is confirmed and we can neither move significantly up or down in the league towards the back end of the season. Seriously whilst the league is as tight as what it currently is, Kelly will not mess about with the kids.

We already did a couple of weeks ago, Gradel not only played in the friendly but he scored and the Reserve team won. He's seen him enough times now and has chose to ignore him to give limited players like Low and Sylla chance after chance. Mark my words Gradel wasn't even in Kelly's thoughts on Tuesday night, it's only in the paper where he was mentioned, the author of that story being a certain Blanderson. The other academy player who might have been included was Andy King, hence him being given a squad number just in case he was needed.

He needs a loan, a whole season in the academy will do him no good at all, especially as he's the oldest player in there.

[lcfc_jme]

We already did a couple of weeks ago, Gradel not only played in the friendly but he scored and the Reserve team won. He's seen him enough times now and has chose to ignore him to give limited players like Low and Sylla chance after chance. Mark my words Gradel wasn't even in Kelly's thoughts on Tuesday night, it's only in the paper where he was mentioned, the author of that story being a certain Blanderson. The other academy player who might have been included was Andy King, hence him being given a squad number just in case he was needed.

He needs a loan, a whole season in the academy will do him no good at all, especially as he's the oldest player in there.

Didn't know that Thanks

Blanderson is a complete plank and really has no clue what he is on about - he loves City too much to criticise anyone or even admit to making a mistake

I reckon the only reason we haven't sent him out on loan is 'cos he's playing so well for the academy and they're winning things. If it wasn't for that then maybe he'd have been shipped out somewhere now. Still though, it'd make sense to send him somewhere, as has happened with Sheehan and Dodds, and also Logan last season. Do you happen to know if there are any plans with him in the near future or whether we're gona keep him on a leash here and not let him develop further??

[Thracian]

I know why you're mentioning Gradel week-in week-out, that much is painfully obvious to me from reading reports on the OS and looking at stats from the academy side. What strikes me as strange though is the fact that RK hasn't yet included him based on what everyone says about him and how well he performs for the academy side. Maybe it's a case of not wanting to bring in too many untried and untested players at any one time, or maybe it's just because Kelly doesn't realise there's a problem. I can understand what you're saying about Sylla and Low Thrac, but seriously, Kelly probably feels, like many people do on here, that the two of them could do a good job between them for us, and for that reason he is persisting with them. Either that or they are absoutely immense in training for us. But then you'd have to ask yourself why could they do it in training and not on a matchday.

I'm not saying I want anyone in ahead of Gradel, I'm not saying I want Gradel to play every game, I'm just trying to think like Kelly is atm and actually be realistic instead of dreaming up some fantasy in my head about a team full of out and out attacking players. We don't have that here and we won't have for some time, so I'm looking at alternatives to Low and Sylla that do not include more academy players. They will get their chance, and I wish them all the best, but it won't be now and I can't see it being soon as players start to come off of the injury table.

Changing the system a little bit would be a better alternative to having Silly and Low on the field, playing 4-3-3 is maybe something to be looked at. Maybe we could look at players like Gradel in the first team during international breaks when we have behind-closed-doors friendlies, or, maybe when our league position is confirmed and we can neither move significantly up or down in the league towards the back end of the season. Seriously whilst the league is as tight as what it currently is, Kelly will not mess about with the kids.

I honestly think one of the reasons is that Sylla's stuck here, on good wages, which if we don't play him are wasted and there is no chance of anyone picking up on him for a loan period.

With Low, Kelly's signed the bloke with a job in mind and, presumably, is still backing his judgement.

Meanwhile, however, a young winger keeps banging goals in as part of a winning team but remains a bit lightweight, nieve and temperamental.

Porter can do the job, no question but that still ties the wages up of two unperforming players and, if Gradel comes on and proves he's an alright sub, Low and Sylla are stuck long term with no place on the bench even, and no reserves games to keep them involved.

Who'd be a manager?

[filbertway]

Tell low that he is not needed and he should go on loan, plenty of league 1 or 2 clubs would have him on loan, split the wages 50/50.

Keep sylla unless someone wants to buy him.

[lcfc_jme]

Evidently you ... You seem to have a vivid idea of what you want doing and how to achieve it. I'd be a little sceptical of your tactics/mentality but each to their own and what not.

You're right, if we didn't play Sylla then we'd be wasting quite high wages on nothing. At least with him playing, he is earning his wages (well at least he is in theory, though his effort doesn't show this ).

And with Low, as you said, Kelly is probably still sticking by and backing his own judgement, 'cos otherwise he'd be slated for making an investment he doesn't use and bein a coward of sorts.

These clearly aren't the only two factors as to why these men are still playing, there's obviously more to it than that. But the fact of the matter is Kelly IS still playing the two of them and is showing NO signs of leaving them to rot away somewhere anytime soon.

Porter and Gradel are very good prospects for the future, but atm and until we can offload the waste, that's all they will be unfortunately.

[Swedging]

I honestly think one of the reasons is that Sylla's stuck here, on good wages, which if we don't play him are wasted and there is no chance of anyone picking up on him for a loan period.

This is an odd one. Sylla clearly had no place in Kelly's thinking at the start of the season, and Kelly seemed to be quite happy to let him rot, doing nothing, if he couldn't get himself a move away. Something I wouldn't have minded either.

But it seems he's worked hard enough to get Kelly to look at him again - which reflects well on the guy, considering what he was up against - especially the explicit vote of no confidence from Kelly. And against Villa, although I would by no means have him as MOTM, both of our goals did come from his deliveries into the box. He's clearly grafted, demonstrated what he can do, and seems worth his place.

[lookwhaticando]

This is an odd one. Sylla clearly had no place in Kelly's thinking at the start of the season, and Kelly seemed to be quite happy to let him rot, doing nothing, if he couldn't get himself a move away. Something I wouldn't have minded either.

But it seems he's worked hard enough to get Kelly to look at him again - which reflects well on the guy, considering what he was up against - especially the explicit vote of no confidence from Kelly. And against Villa, although I would by no means have him as MOTM, both of our goals did come from his deliveries into the box. He's clearly grafted, demonstrated what he can do, and seems worth his place.

For now...

The second he gets any feeling his place is assured, he'll go AWOL again, just as he did when Levein insisted on playing him week in, week out, despite him being shockingly useless.

It's good he seems so hungry, but I'm more than a little sceptical that he'll keep it up over the course of more than 5/10 games.

[lcfc_jme]

5/10 is generous. I don't think he's got it in him to perform at a high level or consistency for 3 or 4 out of 10 games, and I don't know which one is worse - him or Low.

[Thracian]

Evidently you ... You seem to have a vivid idea of what you want doing and how to achieve it. I'd be a little sceptical of your tactics/mentality but each to their own and what not.

You're right, if we didn't play Sylla then we'd be wasting quite high wages on nothing. At least with him playing, he is earning his wages (well at least he is in theory, though his effort doesn't show this ).

And with Low, as you said, Kelly is probably still sticking by and backing his own judgement, 'cos otherwise he'd be slated for making an investment he doesn't use and bein a coward of sorts.

These clearly aren't the only two factors as to why these men are still playing, there's obviously more to it than that. But the fact of the matter is Kelly IS still playing the two of them and is showing NO signs of leaving them to rot away somewhere anytime soon.

Porter and Gradel are very good prospects for the future, but atm and until we can offload the waste, that's all they will be unfortunately.

Suspect you're right about Gradel but I'd generally want to pick the strongest team and I refuse to believe he won't keep playing Porter. Cos I doubt Welsh or anyone else on the left will get such consistently high player ratings.

[lcfc_jme]

Suspect you're right about Gradel but I'd generally want to pick the strongest team and I refuse to believe he won't keep playing Porter. Cos I doubt Welsh or anyone else on the left will get such consistently high player ratings.

I'm not too sure. The fans seem very excited when Welsh gets the ball, as he runs at defenders, goes by them and gets the ball into the box. As long as he keeps doing that I'm sure the fans will get behind him and Kelly will keep picking him. And also with him only being here 'til the end of the year, Kelly will play him anyway, or there'd be no point in having him here in the first place

I'd like to pick the strongest possible team, but sometimes you have to just settle with the fact that the strongest team will not always be picked and every manager has their favoured personnel who they will play regardless of qualities they possess or don't possess.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Suspect you're right about Gradel but I'd generally want to pick the strongest team and I refuse to believe he won't keep playing Porter. Cos I doubt Welsh or anyone else on the left will get such consistently high player ratings.

I don't think Rob Kelly gives a toss about player ratings, nor should he.

[Daggers]

I don't think Rob Kelly gives a toss about player ratings, nor should he.

S'right. He only listens to me. I told him not to play the young'uns just to wind up Thracian.

[Daggers]

I reckon that unless Elvis can start banging in some goals the choice is easy - Matty comes straight back in.

[Matt]

NO-ONE should automatically get back into any team.

Although Hammond isn't scoring, Hammond and Hume upfront is the best strikeforce we have had so far this season, and Fryatt has been playing ok but his job is to score, Fair enough Hammond isn't scoring either but IMO Hammond is playing better than Fryatt was.

Prehaps replace Hammond with Fryatt as a sub later in one game but Fryatt should be on the bench when fit again, He needs to work to get back into the team now.

IMO his injury has been abit of a blessing in disguies because I don't think Kelly would have dropped him otherwise.

[cisono]

No. Out of principle.

No one should get back in the team automatically...

[lcfc_jme]

NO-ONE should automatically get back into any team.

Although Hammond isn't scoring, Hammond and Hume upfront is the best strikeforce we have had so far this season, and Fryatt has been playing ok but his job is to score, Fair enough Hammond isn't scoring either but IMO Hammond is playing better than Fryatt was.

Prehaps replace Hammond with Fryatt as a sub later in one game but Fryatt should be on the bench when fit again, He needs to work to get back into the team now.

IMO his injury has been abit of a blessing in disguies because I don't think Kelly would have dropped him otherwise.

No. Out of principle.

No one should get back in the team automatically...

At last people are begining to talk sense Fryatt for the bench, Elvis IN!!!!