Kelly Backs Hitman Hume

[Fez of Mahrez]

We still don't have the players for Thracian's fantasy football.

What we do have is a purpose, finally. Some energy in midfield, two wingers with a target man to aim for, Hume with a player to play off and a strikeforce that actually combine rather than standing forty yards apart every time the ball comes forward, someone who leads the line, more of a threat at set pieces, three players in midfield who will fight and chase for every ball. I haven't seen enough from/of Yeates to be totally convinced yet but at least we are moving in the right direction.

Until we are winning every game 5-0, you will have to put up with this from Thracian. It's idealism and populism at its worst. The reality is that we haven't spent a single penny in transfer fees yet, even with Mandaric now firmly installed, so the encouraging signs that Kelly has finally seen that we needed a bit more of a plan going forward bodes well for when we can bring in some quality, the likes of which we haven't been able to attract for a good four or five years. As long as we don't go back to the bad old days of defenders in midfield (and I mean genuine defenders, not midfielders who don't score every week) at the drop of a hat then I am starting to give Kelly a bit more time.

[Thracian]

We still don't have the players for Thracian's fantasy football.

What we do have is a purpose, finally. Some energy in midfield, two wingers with a target man to aim for, Hume with a player to play off and a strikeforce that actually combine rather than standing forty yards apart every time the ball comes forward, someone who leads the line, more of a threat at set pieces, three players in midfield who will fight and chase for every ball. I haven't seen enough from/of Yeates to be totally convinced yet but at least we are moving in the right direction.

Until we are winning every game 5-0, you will have to put up with this from Thracian. It's idealism and populism at its worst. The reality is that we haven't spent a single penny in transfer fees yet, even with Mandaric now firmly installed, so the encouraging signs that Kelly has finally seen that we needed a bit more of a plan going forward bodes well for when we can bring in some quality, the likes of which we haven't been able to attract for a good four or five years. As long as we don't go back to the bad old days of defenders in midfield (and I mean genuine defenders, not midfielders who don't score every week) at the drop of a hat then I am starting to give Kelly a bit more time.

Midfielders who don't score every week? They hardly score in any weeks. Where will our goals come from if we carry on in this manner?

There is nothing, not one thing I've called for that could not be effected in a week. Whether MM spends money, loans people or tells Kelly to use what we've got.

Nor am I talking about 5-0 as you well know, yet throw in to give the effect of ridiculing something that has not been said or suggested.

We presently average only very slightly more than one goal per game. Top six teams average 1.5 goals per game. I'll happily settle for betwen 1.5/2.0 goals per game which is what I accurately predicted we would need last July and equally accurately predicted we wouldn't get.

You cannot score that number of goals consistently with so many defensive minded midfielders and strikers who might work hard together but in reality don't find the net often enough for a combination of reasons.

[STUHILL]

They don't have to as most of the teams are shite, you've mentioned the few teams where they would need to raise the stakes, I wouldn't even include Derby in there, but they are a good example of what can be achieved with the right approach and a modicum of talent.

mate i'm afraid to break this to you BUT we are one of those shite teams!! And trust me it isn't all down to attitude and the approach to each game. A big part is to do with the shite players we have! Players that are in a team that are 13th in the Championship because that is how good they are. If we want to compete with the top teams in this divsion and beat the rest of the 'shite' ones as you put it, we need a higher quality of new players in the summer! And Derby are a good example and perhaps NOW we can start to copy their success as now we can spend 3million plus in transfer windows like they did in January! People may argue i'm using lack of money as an excuse again, well yeh i bloody am, money buys quality, therefore if you have more of it, your more likely to have more quality in your side to win games.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Midfielders who don't score every week? They hardly score in any weeks. Where will our goals come from if we carry on in this manner?

There is nothing, not one thing I've called for that could not be effected in a week. Whether MM spends money, loans people or tells Kelly to use what we've got.

Nor am I talking about 5-0 as you well know, yet throw in to give the effect of ridiculing something that has not been said or suggested.

We presently average only very slightly more than one goal per game. Top six teams average 1.5 goals per game. I'll happily settle for betwen 1.5/2.0 goals per game which is what I accurately predicted we would need last July and equally accurately predicted we wouldn't get.

You cannot score that number of goals consistently with so many defensive minded midfielders and strikers who might work hard together but in reality don't find the net often enough for a combination of reasons.

The reason I threw that comment in was not to ridicule it. That is what you stand for. You (and lots of others) moaned about us dropping off after the 3-0 win over Cov. You're a perfectionist and an idealist rather than a realist, in my opinion.

If you're talking the last five games, if we carry on in this vein then the goals will come from the same place they have come from already, and we will win the league next season at a canter.

As for the goalscoring, we scored eight goals in February and conceded two. Doesn't matter how many of them were scored by defenders, if McAuley and Kisnorbo can get into the habit of scoring as regularly as Elliott, Taggart and Walsh did then that will be every bit as important to our prospects of finishing as high as possible next season as more goals from the midfield or the attack.

[STUHILL]

Midfielders who don't score every week? They hardly score in any weeks. Where will our goals come from if we carry on in this manner?

There is nothing, not one thing I've called for that could not be effected in a week. Whether MM spends money, loans people or tells Kelly to use what we've got.

Nor am I talking about 5-0 as you well know, yet throw in to give the effect of ridiculing something that has not been said or suggested.

We presently average only very slightly more than one goal per game. Top six teams average 1.5 goals per game. I'll happily settle for betwen 1.5/2.0 goals per game which is what I accurately predicted we would need last July and equally accurately predicted we wouldn't get.

You cannot score that number of goals consistently with so many defensive minded midfielders and strikers who might work hard together but in reality don't find the net often enough for a combination of reasons.

We know this, we know Johnson and Jarret are too defensive minded. We also know that we aren't scoring enough goals. We know that the fullbacks aren't attacking enough, it's plain for eveyone to see who watches us play week after week. However, look at the loan market, which is one option for change we have, but where are these attacking midfielders with quality that we need? There aren't any because they are either playing or not available to us. Another option, Andy King and Mattock, two Under 18 youth players, and option yes but a right one? The summer when we have the actual ability to bring in some quality which we are severly lacking is the only realistic change that can have an effect.

[Flynny]

We only lost to Fulham because we didn't sustain our attacking approach and because we instead allowed self-doubt and tactical indecision and negativity to creep in.

Balls. We counter-attacked like there was no tomorrow but didn't have the quality to finish it off. We had loads of chances even in the second half, it was end to end stuff. From two down Fulham went gung-ho and that was it. When they really turned it on, their superior class showed.

We need better players, specifically attackers.

[davieG]

mate i'm afraid to break this to you BUT we are one of those shite teams!! And trust me it isn't all down to attitude and the approach to each game. A big part is to do with the shite players we have! Players that are in a team that are 13th in the Championship because that is how good they are. If we want to compete with the top teams in this divsion and beat the rest of the 'shite' ones as you put it, we need a higher quality of new players in the summer! And Derby are a good example and perhaps NOW we can start to copy their success as now we can spend 3million plus in transfer windows like they did in January! People may argue i'm using lack of money as an excuse again, well yeh i bloody am, money buys quality, therefore if you have more of it, your more likely to have more quality in your side to win games.

But we've shown we can compete with the better teams when we have to and shite, with attitude can beat shite without attitude.

[Fez of Mahrez]

We know this, we know Johnson and Jarret are too defensive minded. We also know that we aren't scoring enough goals. We know that the fullbacks aren't attacking enough, it's plain for eveyone to see who watches us play week after week. However, look at the loan market, which is one option for change we have, but where are these attacking midfielders with quality that we need? There aren't any because they are either playing or not available to us. Another option, Andy King and Mattock, two Under 18 youth players, and option yes but a right one? The summer when we have the actual ability to bring in some quality which we are severly lacking is the only realistic change that can have an effect.

I agree with your points but I'd take issue with Johnson and Jarrett being too defensive minded. Against Cov in the first half we saw the best that we can hope for from this club at the moment - and for me the key was Johnson and Jarrett competing for every ball in midfield. We've had to put up with Williams and Hughes providing nothing of a platform for the wingers and strikers to go and win the game for us.

I can see why people don't rate Jarrett, his passing is erratic but he is all over the pitch and in this division that is worth a million times more than Gareth Williams flouncing around and spraying a 50-yard pass every twenty minutes.

Johnson I would never pick out of choice but he was excellent against Cov and by all accounts did well against West Brom too. He'll do for now and if we can get a decent box-to-box midfielder along the lines of Jarrett but with more quality on the ball and perhaps a greater goal threat to sit alongside him with Mandaric's money in the summer with Porter on the left and either Hume or a new signing on the right wing, we'll have a midfield that can both win possession and look dangerous going forward - something we haven't had since the O'Neill days in my opinion.

[Thracian]

mate i'm afraid to break this to you BUT we are one of those shite teams!! And trust me it isn't all down to attitude and the approach to each game. A big part is to do with the shite players we have! Players that are in a team that are 13th in the Championship because that is how good they are. If we want to compete with the top teams in this divsion and beat the rest of the 'shite' ones as you put it, we need a higher quality of new players in the summer! And Derby are a good example and perhaps NOW we can start to copy their success as now we can spend 3million plus in transfer windows like they did in January! People may argue i'm using lack of money as an excuse again, well yeh i bloody am, money buys quality, therefore if you have more of it, your more likely to have more quality in your side to win games.

Money can, indeed, buy quality. It can also buy shit as Leicester City have demonstrated in technicolour over the years.

In Kelly's defence I would also say we have slightly fewer useless footballers around the place than we have for some considerable time and, boosted by the loanees, the cover is probably of a slightly better quality.

Derby might have spent £3m but they are not past the post yet and certainly don't look anything special as a football team for all their outlay.

And, if Derby go up, the linevitibility is that money spent by two from Sunderland, West Brom, Birmingham and Southampton won't lift them into the Premiership so being wise with your money and building a proper team with proper team spirit remains vital.

We are not a shite team, we are just missing some vital components.

Our team is not so much dfifferent to the one that beat Watford and Spurs last year, drew with Reading, beat decent Crystal Palace and Sheffield United sides and so on.

What our team needs is some genuine fine tuning for a start, fine tuning which enables us to score the 70-odd goals necessary to even challenge for a promotion.

That should be our initial focus, together with the means by which we sustain the attacks which will score those vital goals..

[davieG]

We know this, we know Johnson and Jarret are too defensive minded. We also know that we aren't scoring enough goals. We know that the fullbacks aren't attacking enough, it's plain for eveyone to see who watches us play week after week. However, look at the loan market, which is one option for change we have, but where are these attacking midfielders with quality that we need? There aren't any because they are either playing or not available to us. Another option, Andy King and Mattock, two Under 18 youth players, and option yes but a right one? The summer when we have the actual ability to bring in some quality which we are severly lacking is the only realistic change that can have an effect.

Other teams in this division have managed to find better loanees than us and I can't imagine Johnson or Tiatto came cheap and they've been poor investments.

[Flynny]

I agree with your points but I'd take issue with Johnson and Jarrett being too defensive minded.

If anything Jarrett seems attacking. He just, unfortunately, dallies on the ball a bit. Doesn't seem to have the confidence to do much with his first touch.

Our team is not so much dfifferent to the one that beat Watford and Spurs last year, drew with Reading, beat decent Crystal Palace and Sheffield United sides and so on.

The same one that lost to Crewe and nearly got relegated?

Spin.

[JoeyB]

Other teams in this division have managed to find better loanees than us and I can't imagine Johnson or Tiatto came cheap and they've been poor investments.

Johnson of late has been one of our best players imho.

Tiatto i agree with

[Thracian]

If anything Jarrett seems attacking. He just, unfortunately, dallies on the ball a bit. Doesn't seem to have the confidence to do much with his first touch.

The same one that lost to Crewe and nearly got relegated?

Spin.

I didn't say they were ever consistent or that our tactics ever got the best out of them. The huge tally of draws over two seasons is significant to me and reflective of Kelly's negativity.

But with the victories we've had they do tell the story that very few teams find us easy to beat (Kelly's watchword) or give us a thrashing.

It's just that it seems to be taking Kelly a ridiculously long time to move the side forward and he does seem reluctant to change some of his Chosen Men or to shift the balance of the side to one which is more positive.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Oh no, not the Chosen Men again!

(Bet you've said that as well!)

[Daggers]

Oh no, not the Chosen Men again!

We ought to invite the Chosen Men into the Secret Circle and have a Secretly Chosen Circle of Men...only impotent ones devoid of any powers of scoring or moderating posts.

Back to the topic ~ I never liked the Hitman and Her

[Simon]

I dont buy into this 'we have shite players' bollocks. They're not the most amazing players in the world, but they have enough quality to be somewhere up around the play-offs if they consistently played to their ability.

It is no coincidence that we have beaten Spurs, and run Villa and Fulham VERY close.

Our players have consistently underachieved for too long. Everyone was orgasming over themselves when Stearman, then Wesolowski, then Porter hit the scenes (admittedly I was one of them) but barring the latter, what's happened to them? They've shown they have the quality, why havent they pushed on? Even Porter isn't being given the opportunity to develop as he should be. Why has Weso gone from being a fantastic player to an average one with little positional sense? Why has Stearman become unreliable? It pains me that they spend a lot of time playing snooker or at the dogs or in clubs when they should be busting a gut to get back in this team.

Or do they have no reason to?

Fryatt was banging them in for Walsall, was attracting interest from Middlesbrough, and now suddenly HE'S shite as well? Hume was everyone's darling (still is in many ways) but hasn't scored for a long time.

McAuley and Kisnorbo have the potential to have one of the best CB partnerships in this division, and Nils is premiership quality.

The only place we lack any real quality is in the middle of the pitch. Its been gaping since well before the season started.

The players certainly have to look at themselves, but who's door do many of these problems fall at?

Rob Kelly.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Lots of good points, chiefly that we need to stop orgasming over ourselves while reading this forum.

You're excused Ultra, we know you can't help it.

[MBK]

I dont buy into this 'we have shite players' bollocks. They're not the most amazing players in the world, but they have enough quality to be somewhere up around the play-offs if they consistently played to their ability.

It is no coincidence that we have beaten Spurs, and run Villa and Fulham VERY close.

Our players have consistently underachieved for too long. Everyone was orgasming over themselves when Stearman, then Wesolowski, then Porter hit the scenes (admittedly I was one of them) but barring the latter, what's happened to them? They've shown they have the quality, why havent they pushed on? Even Porter isn't being given the opportunity to develop as he should be. Why has Weso gone from being a fantastic player to an average one with little positional sense? Why has Stearman become unreliable? It pains me that they spend a lot of time playing snooker or at the dogs or in clubs when they should be busting a gut to get back in this team.

Or do they have no reason to?

Fryatt was banging them in for Walsall, was attracting interest from Middlesbrough, and now suddenly HE'S shite as well? Hume was everyone's darling (still is in many ways) but hasn't scored for a long time.

McAuley and Kisnorbo have the potential to have one of the best CB partnerships in this division, and Nils is premiership quality.

The only place we lack any real quality is in the middle of the pitch. Its been gaping since well before the season started.

The players certainly have to look at themselves, but who's door do many of these problems fall at?

Rob Kelly.

Which is painful because he claims to be youth oriented and blames our bad results on inexperience in the squad.

[Flynny]

Microscope time!

It is no coincidence that we have beaten Spurs, and run Villa and Fulham VERY close.

Says who? And what kind of record is that to boast of anyway? Lost 2, Won one?

Even Porter isn't being given the opportunity to develop as he should be.

Sorry, what?

Why has Weso gone from being a fantastic player to an average one with little positional sense?

His legs snapped.

Why has Stearman become unreliable?

Because he lacks drive. He had one decent half season when it was all new to him. Happens with tons of kids when they come in, Danny C being a good example.

Fryatt was banging them in for Walsall, was attracting interest from Middlesbrough, and now suddenly HE'S shite as well?

He's struggled with injuries and fitness.

Hume was everyone's darling (still is in many ways) but hasn't scored for a long time.

Bad run. He hasn't played badly, Fryatt's been unreliable as a striking partner and Hammond's been... Hammond.

McAuley and Kisnorbo have the potential to have one of the best CB partnerships in this division, and Nils is premiership quality.

Finally something I sort of agree with.

The only place we lack any real quality is in the middle of the pitch. Its been gaping since well before the season started.

Don't forget right-mid. And up-front. Whatever you think of Fryatt, he's not going to be a 15-20 goal a season striker for us, and Hume, whilst a class player, isn't really either. We're poor everywhere except at the back.

The players certainly have to look at themselves, but who's door do many of these problems fall at?

Rob Kelly.

Injuries, no money, a crap attack built on a decent defense and surly teens. Yeah, a better manager would sort that.

Hey didn't you want Dowie in?

[Chrysalis]

Have any of you guys thought that maybe our strikers just aren't getting the service, I think our lack of creativity in midfield is the real problem! Even the best of strikers are always going to miss chances but whereas they have quality feeding them constant chances, I don't see our strikers having numerous chances week in week out. Surely the Midfield should be partly blamed also. I personally have a lot of faith in Fryatt, I think with a better midfield supplying creative and more dangerous balls through, then both Fryatt and Hume will score a lot more. As for Horsfield, signing him on a longterm contract would clearly show a lack of ambition to bring quality in. Hammond causes problems but it's not enough for me, he simply can't finish!

Bring in a player of Todorov's quality in Summer but also 2 quality CREATIVE minded midfielders!

This argument was proven flawed when someone posted the shots on goal league table, we were around mid table if I remember right. So service is there.

How these shots happen tho could well be from poor build ups and lots of long range shots etc. I think our problems are a combination of below par strikers, fryatt has been massively dissapointing as he was intended to be our main goal scorer. Also lack of attacking play, really at home I would expect at least 1 defender to join attacking moves along with at least 2 midfielders and of course 2 strikers so during attacks a minimum of 5 players in the final third and continue this until at least a 2 goal lead is achieved, the most effective way to attack a team is when they feeling comfortable so usually counter attacking, so eg. instead of 11 men defending a corner have a few men ready to latch on to the clearance to launch an attack rather then just thinking about clearing it, teams like reading and arsenal play like this very well.

[Simon]

Hey didn't you want Dowie in?

No.

[Simi]

Johnson of late has been one of our best players imho.

Tiatto i agree with

4 good games in a season still counts as a poor investment if you ask me.

[Steven]

Well I think he'd be better employed as an attacking midfielder.

I said that when we signed him, , and sadly this kind of naff puff piece by the Club just brings RK's judgement into question. <_<

[Flynny]

No.

Maybe you really really didn't want him then. Or I'm just confused. Probably just me.

[Simon]

Maybe you really really didn't want him then. Or I'm just confused. Probably just me.

No I REALLY REALLY didn't want him.