In God's name - 200 lashes + for gang-rape victim.

[Zingari]

Its a lot more complex than you think. Its all well and good looking at everything from the surface and say "ah Islam is this that and the other" but it requires deeper explanation to things like these. What most people, not you in particular, do is they take a lot of things completely out of context without even having a proper understanding of the subject. You, again not you in particular, can quote me all the so-called verses who approves and teaches violence (which is a complete rubbish statement) to me but its worth as much as the little ginger hair Megson has got left on his head. You need to understand it in the proper context and then come back to me with your critics.

Its not me that needs convincing that islam is a religion of love and peace ,I neither know, or care to know enough about it (or any other " BIG MAN IN SKY , HE KNOW BEST "religion) to read anything about their various beliefs or how they can be interpreted

It is the obviously confused followers of islam that are responsible for the great many atrocities committed in islam's name that need convincing of the loving and peaceful nature of their own religion and that they are wrong both morally and theologically in what they do in the name of allah.

Then, what i or any non muslim thinks will become totally irrelevant .

It will then probably become a universally respected religion but until that time a lot of people sadly will regard it's ambiguity among even its most learned followers with great suspicion

[Koke]

Its not me that needs convincing that islam is a religion of love and peace ,I neither know, or care to know enough about it (or any other " BIG MAN IN SKY , HE KNOW BEST "religion) to read anything about their various beliefs or how they can be interpreted

It is the obviously confused followers of islam that are responsible for the great many atrocities committed in islam's name that need convincing of the loving and peaceful nature of their own religion and that they are wrong both morally and theologically in what they do in the name of allah.

Then, what i or any non muslim thinks will become totally irrelevant .

It will then probably become a universally respected religion but until that time a lot of people sadly will regard it's ambiguity among even its most learned followers with great suspicion

So why criticize and talk about a religion that you have no interest in whatsoever.

[Zingari]

So why criticize and talk about a religion that you have no interest in whatsoever.

because of the atocities commited in its name and the teachings ; i'm not interested in fascism or neo nazism but i think we have the right to criticse them if the are seen to be preaching hatred ;

did you not read the link i posted

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol...icle2902254.ece

[Ultra]

And of course no atrocities are EVER carried out in the name of Christ or the Bible, are they?...

[Webbo]

And of course no atrocities are EVER carried out in the name of Christ or the Bible, are they?...

Can you think of one recently?

[Ultra]

I've never known the human rights lobby so quiet.

Sadly their voices count for very little when compared to those who demand the "right" to cheap petrol.

As long as this state of affairs continues, the Saudis will continue to have the West literally over a barrel..

[Ultra]

Can you think of one recently?

[Webbo]

And that was done on the orders of the Archbishop of Canterbury was it?

[Manwell Pablo]

Unbelievable.

Tell me, because I know so little about the sport, did England qualify for Euro Soccerball Championships '08?

How many people were able to predict, pre WC2006, that a) England would be absolutely pathetic at the upcoming World Cup and that b) ENGLAND WOULD NOT QUALIFY FOR EURO 2008?

No seriously, I'm asking. How many other people predicted that England would fail to qualify before they even kicked a ball?

Judging from your posting style, you're obviously only ten years old. When you get a little older you'll learn to spot a laughably overrated team of talentless prima donnas when you see one. More importantly, you'll learn to take all the inevitable pre-tournament tabloid jingoism with a pinch of salt and evaluate a team objectively. How many people predicted England would win WC06? Why don't you ever pick on them?

Until you gain that extra bit of experience, until you've been an England fan for long enough to know never to believe the hype, you're better off keeping your mouth shut.

Me for one, and I have the posts to prove it , which makes the rest of your post pointless.

I have no problem keeping my feet on the floor as far as the England team is concerned, I'm just not stupid enough to predict that they'd lose to Paraguay, T&T, and Sweden.

Not having a great knowledge about a particular subject does exclude you from accusing infinitely better-informed posters of talking shite.

At least it should.

I wasn't talking about well informed you were I was reffering to your tendancy to post just to wind people up and not care who you offend. Comparing Islam to Nazisem for example, when there are muslims on here, certain members would threaten (Hollowly) to take you to court for that.

[Zingari]

And of course no atrocities are EVER carried out in the name of Christ or the Bible, are they?...

in no way do i want to defend christianty's murky past (or even maybe even its murky present,) but if you could uncover churches or any other organisation in britain today that are encouraging killing homosexuals please expose them ; i'd willingly join in the condemnation of their beliefs too

[Flynny]

Gotta agree with Ultra there. Bush reckoned god was right behind him. Massive swathes of the Neocon movement are committed christians, too.

Christianity is traditionally about women being inferior, homosexuals being perverts, and all sorts of things that we've discarded as a society (mostly) even whilst supposedly being a christian nation. Church and state seperation is probably the main reason, which I don't see happening any time soon over there.

It's all very well being respectful, but after a while you do have to have a certain level of pragmatism when you're talking about matters like these. Let's not pretend that christianity or islam don't have their demons (no pun intended).

[Webbo]

Gotta agree with Ultra there. Bush reckoned god was right behind him. Massive swathes of the Neocon movement are committed christians, too.

Christianity is traditionally about women being inferior, homosexuals being perverts, and all sorts of things that we've discarded as a society (mostly) even whilst supposedly being a christian nation. Church and state seperation is probably the main reason, which I don't see happening any time soon over there.

It's all very well being respectful, but after a while you do have to have a certain level of pragmatism when you're talking about matters like these. Let's not pretend that christianity or islam don't have their demons (no pun intended).

When ever something bad happens in a third world country there is always some left wing twat (not you Flynny) that comes out and pretends that we are worse in the west.Boll0x.

As far as I'm aware we have never in our history flogged women for being rape victims or ever had the death penalty for being gay. I'm sure someone will come on here now and call me racist, oh well I'll get over it.

[Koke]

When ever something bad happens in a third world country there is always some left wing twat (not you Flynny) that comes out and pretends that we are worse in the west.Boll0x.

As far as I'm aware we have never in our history flogged women for being rape victims or ever had the death penalty for being gay. I'm sure someone will come on here now and call me racist, oh well I'll get over it.

because of the atocities commited in its name and the teachings ; i'm not interested in fascism or neo nazism but i think we have the right to criticse them if the are seen to be preaching hatred ;

did you not read the link i posted

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol...icle2902254.ece

I did read the link and I'm in agreement with you that its an atrocious act.

The West is not worse per se. But I constantly say (not on here but generally speaking) that Saudi Arabia is not a country that should be taken as an example and I even said before that they are a despicable, cowards, atrocious and gutless country.

Hell, look at Egypt, Morroco, Jordan, Oman, Lebanon, Tunisia, UAE etc. All are good muslim countries and rarely (if any) do we hear such acts as the one in Saudi carried out.

This is just one of many cases. As I've said, I've spent an awful lot of time in Saudi Arabia and let me just put this way. The Royal Al Saud family are a bunch of c*nts.

[Zingari]

I did read the link and I'm in agreement with you that its an atrocious act.

The West is not worse per se. But I constantly say (not on here but generally speaking) that Saudi Arabia is not a country that should be taken as an example and I even said before that they are a despicable, cowards, atrocious and gutless country.

Hell, look at Egypt, Morroco, Jordan, Oman, Lebanon, Tunisia, UAE etc. All are good muslim countries and rarely (if any) do we hear such acts as the one in Saudi carried out.

This is just one of many cases. As I've said, I've spent an awful lot of time in Saudi Arabia and let me just put this way. The Royal Al Saud family are a bunch of c*nts.

the fact that these countries are called "muslim countries" is bad enough for me , why should any religion including christianity think that the behaviour of the people living or even working there temporarily should conform to the beliefs of any one religion ?

i am aware that the USA and UK are often referred to as "christian countries" but thankfully its long since that the holy men have dictated what the laws should be from interpretations of ambiguous ancient texts

we should all be able to live in nations/countries/societies which tolerate or even embrace all religions (and atheism) but personally i am quite frightened by the nations that leave law making to the religious academics with their esoteric texts that even they cannot agree about

[Koke]

the fact that these countries are called "muslim countries" is bad enough for me , why should any religion including christianity think that the behaviour of the people living or even working there temporarily should conform to the beliefs of any one religion ?

i am aware that the USA and UK are often referred to as "christian countries" but thankfully its long since that the holy men have dictated what the laws should be from interpretations of ambiguous ancient texts

we should all be able to live in nations/countries/societies which tolerate or even embrace all religions (and atheism) but personally i am quite frightened by the nations that leave law making to the religious academics with their esoteric texts that even they cannot agree about

Well, c*nts like Jon Gaunt are quick to remind us that this is a Christian country when talking about the issue of the veil amongst others.

In those countries I have mentioned you can easily practice whatever religion you wish. There are a number of Christians and others faith who live there so you might as well throw that excuse in the bin.

As for being "quite frightened by the nations that leave law making to the religious academics with their esoteric texts that even they cannot agree about". Well, its not about agreeing to it. Its scholars who have totally different interpretations of it.

Lets end it here. You make wild assumptions without even knowing the full facts, so no point in debating this further.

[Webbo]

I did read the link and I'm in agreement with you that its an atrocious act.

The West is not worse per se. But I constantly say (not on here but generally speaking) that Saudi Arabia is not a country that should be taken as an example and I even said before that they are a despicable, cowards, atrocious and gutless country.

Hell, look at Egypt, Morroco, Jordan, Oman, Lebanon, Tunisia, UAE etc. All are good muslim countries and rarely (if any) do we hear such acts as the one in Saudi carried out.

This is just one of many cases. As I've said, I've spent an awful lot of time in Saudi Arabia and let me just put this way. The Royal Al Saud family are a bunch of c*nts.

I've nothing against you, muslims or even muslim countries.I can quite understand why god fearing people of any religion would want as little to do as possible with our decadent western society. My objection is to the double standards of (mainly white) politically correct do-gooders who imo just stir up trouble where very little existed previously.

[Lemon Harpic]

Its a lot more complex than you think. Its all well and good looking at everything from the surface and say "ah Islam is this that and the other" but it requires deeper explanation to things like these. What most people, not you in particular, do is they take a lot of things completely out of context without even having a proper understanding of the subject. You, again not you in particular, can quote me all the so-called verses who approves and teaches violence (which is a complete rubbish statement) to me but its worth as much as the little ginger hair Megson has got left on his head. You need to understand it in the proper context and then come back to me with your critics.

Sadly, the few quotes I provided were not taken out of context. They capture the very essence of Islam.

Like the Koran, the Bible is crammed full of contradictory statements. Don't for a second think I'm defending Christianity (a pox on both your houses, I say), but if a Christian decides his religion is about peace and love, then he is free to selectively read the Bible to support that position. If he decides Christianity is about bigotry and intolerance, he has a mountain of evidence in the Bible to support that.

Muslims do not have the luxury of cherry-picking the bits of their Book that they like due to the Islamic doctrine of abrogation. According to the doctrine, whenever there are inconsistencies in the Koran (that is, inconsistencies in the perfect and unchangeable word of God) the later texts supercede the earlier.

The result of this is that all the 'nice' bits of the Koran are abrogated (abolished) in favour of verses such as 9:5 ("Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.") and 9:29 ("Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.").

It's the same story in the Hadeeth (for the benefit of Manwell Pablo, the Hadeeth is the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad, and is the second source of Islamic doctrine. The stuff about peace and forgiveness is abrogated by Muhammad's assertion that "I swear by Him who has my soul in his hands, I was sent to you with nothing but slaughter.â€

I was sent to you with nothing but slaughter.

I'm not denying that there are parts of the Koran that preach peace and forgiveness, but these texts come earlier on. Later, after Muhammad's flight to Medina, the Koran and Hadeeth get a whole lot nastier.

There is no wiggle room. Islamic doctrine commands Muslims to fight in order to establish Allah’s kingdom on earth, all of the earth, by any means. Just as Hitler commanded Germans to fight in order to establish his Thousand Year Reich in Europe by any means.

Anyone who says Islam is peace is kafir. There's no getting away from that.

[Lemon Harpic]

So why criticize and talk about a religion that you have no interest in whatsoever.

[Daggers]

<images>

Hypocrite

[Lemon Harpic]

Hypocrite

Hardly.

Read the thread and I said that it's a bad thing that innocent people died.

[Daggers]

Hardly.

Read the thread and I said that it's a bad thing that innocent people died.

I am fully aware of all of your posts regarding 9/11.

You are being a hypocrite.

[Manwell Pablo]

I am fully aware of all of your posts regarding 9/11.

You are being a hypocrite.

One of the greatest things ever to happen in history If I remember correctly.

[Lemon Harpic]

One of the greatest things ever to happen in history If I remember correctly.

You obviously don't then.

[Thracian]

And of course no atrocities are EVER carried out in the name of Christ or the Bible, are they?...

They certainly shouldn't be.

[Manwell Pablo]

You obviously don't then.

Well you said it. I can't remember the exact words but I remember you saying you were quite chuffed with it. If your denying that then you even more of a wind up merchant than I first thought, quite funny that me and Daggers both remember you saying at it is all