Answers from Peter Jones

[SamL]

I'm not talking to you specifically what I mean when I say "you" I mean the groups as a whole and as for where I sit I'm on BB

Ah right pal, haven't seen you around but I can see your point, sort of. If you try to start a song and it gets halfway through it, others who weren't joining in will join in with a simple boring 'Leicester Leicester Leicester' chant and you will get outsung.

I just thought that what you said was rather generic and that you were talking about me and my friends. I wish people would learn some of the older songs because earlier in the season I tried to start off songs like When You're Smiling but only like 3 people joined in so I don't bother anymore. I just start off the songs that people will actually join in with.

[Daggers]

As Fans our main job is to get behind the team and the club, not pick fault with somebody putting 'ditto' as an answer, as im sure you appreciate he must have many more emails and letters to respond to.

My "job" is limited to paying for my season ticket.

That's my "job" done.

Now it's everyone elses go - the team can play some sodding football, the manager can manage and the club can (once in a while get off their collective fat arse) and ask me if everything is ok and whether I'd like anything improved.

And, defending the lads here for a second, they have every right to comment on his reply to them whether you agree with it or not.

I am sorry if you find my reply to your post a tad curt or brusque but (as im sure you appreciate) I have many more posts to respond to.

[Simi]

a very suspicous post I have to say.

Ched your totally wasting your time with the swapping the kop idea, and as PJ said theres nothing he can do about standing until the health and safety laws are changed.

Ultimatley the club will do what is in it's best interests.

I don't get why it's coming across like I've single handedly asked Peter Jones to swap the Kop and make everything standing. Then when I've not got my way thrown my toys out of the pram. It's not like that at all.

The reason WE decided to email PJ was to gage the clubs stance on the situations, I've been told by a number of people that these issues are ones that the club are interested in debating. With PJ going to meetings involving standing it was definitely worth asking in my view.

So many times people are saying "Do something about it" then when we do, it's criticized no end by people. I accept we didn't do everything right in the letter, but it's a damn site more than a lot of others are doing/have done.

[Daggers]

So many times people are saying "Do something about it" then when we do, it's criticized no end by people. I accept we didn't do everything right in the letter, but it's a damn site more than a lot of others are doing/have done.

Godammit Ched - you're starting to sound like the Trust!

[Simi]

As Fans our main job is to get behind the team and the club, not pick fault with somebody putting 'ditto' as an answer, as im sure you appreciate he must have many more emails and letters to respond to.

I made this thread to let people know what we had attempted to do to improve things that are constantly moaned about on here. It wasn't to moan that he put ditto. Sure, he has a lot of e-mails to reply to, it's his job though. I understand he can't change things all by himself, beleive it or not.

[Manwell Pablo]

I don't get why it's coming across like I've single handedly asked Peter Jones to swap the Kop and make everything standing. Then when I've not got my way thrown my toys out of the pram. It's not like that at all.

The reason WE decided to email PJ was to gage the clubs stance on the situations, I've been told by a number of people that these issues are ones that the club are interested in debating. With PJ going to meetings involving standing it was definitely worth asking in my view.

So many times people are saying "Do something about it" then when we do, it's criticized no end by people. I accept we didn't do everything right in the letter, but it's a damn site more than a lot of others are doing/have done.

I'm sympathise with you I really do, but I am not one of these people who say "do something about it." I am one of those people who say the club wont change anything no matter what you do, so don't bother doing something about it. . I'm not saying going out trying to change things is bad but you've got look at who your dealing with, I told you all they'd trample all over you lot eventully when the idea of N block was first brought about and I was right. LCFC Backroom staff = wankers.

And I am not for one minute suggesting you are throwing your toys out the pram, I am telling you that raising the issue is pointless, they will never in a million years entertain the idea.

Hopefully the there will be some progress made about the standing issues at football grounds, the issue seems to be getting some press/MP time which is good, hopefully in a few seasons time we might see safe standing areas creeping back in to the Premier League. However, as the bloke says his hands are very tied on that issue.

[Fez of Mahrez]

I'm sympathise with you I really do, but I am not one of these people who say "do something about it." I am one of those people who say the club wont change anything no matter what you do, so don't bother doing something about it. . I'm not saying going out trying to change things is bad but you've got look at who your dealing with, I told you all they'd trample all over you lot eventully when the idea of N block was first brought about and I was right. LCFC Backroom staff = wankers.

And I am not for one minute suggesting you are throwing your toys out the pram, I am telling you that raising the issue is pointless, they will never in a million years entertain the idea.

Hopefully the there will be some progress made about the standing issues at football grounds, the issue seems to be getting some press/MP time which is good, hopefully in a few seasons time we might see safe standing areas creeping back in to the Premier League. However, as the bloke says his hands are very tied on that issue.

I can't help but agree. Myself and Manwell came up with some constructive criticism on your N Block plans, in fact I remember saying it wasn't the best idea to go through the club to try and achieve it. I think it might be a massive waste of time unfortunately, and you'll have to put up with a fair bit of flak on here as anyone does with anything. The atmosphere just isn't important to everyone. But good luck. I hope you prove us wrong.

[Simi]

I can't help but agree. Myself and Manwell came up with some constructive criticism on your N Block plans, in fact I remember saying it wasn't the best idea to go through the club to try and achieve it. I think it might be a massive waste of time unfortunately, and you'll have to put up with a fair bit of flak on here as anyone does with anything. The atmosphere just isn't important to everyone. But good luck. I hope you prove us wrong.

Also some 'not so constructive criticism' from other people.

One of the only reasons we went through the club was to help publicise the idea. Otherwise we were just relying on people from here to spread the word and that can only get so far.

I don't mind putting up with flak people who criticize us, but some telling us to just give up isn't really worth it.

[Simi]

I'm sympathise with you I really do, but I am not one of these people who say "do something about it." I am one of those people who say the club wont change anything no matter what you do, so don't bother doing something about it. . I'm not saying going out trying to change things is bad but you've got look at who your dealing with, I told you all they'd trample all over you lot eventully when the idea of N block was first brought about and I was right. LCFC Backroom staff = wankers.

And I am not for one minute suggesting you are throwing your toys out the pram, I am telling you that raising the issue is pointless, they will never in a million years entertain the idea.

Hopefully the there will be some progress made about the standing issues at football grounds, the issue seems to be getting some press/MP time which is good, hopefully in a few seasons time we might see safe standing areas creeping back in to the Premier League. However, as the bloke says his hands are very tied on that issue.

I think after what went on at Coventry we knew what would happen eventually. At the end of the day we're only a small group of 16,17 and 18 year olds, not something that the club is going to be influenced by, regardless of what they say.

Progress is certainly been made, but we'll stay how we are until the same old excuses stop been made and clubs push the campaign more individually.

[davieG]

The thing is the club will and does make changes, witness the music prior to the game, the change of the post horn gallop, the introduction of music after goals, the playing of hey Jude.

I don't remember them asking if the majority wanted these changes yet when Ched and co question, for example the music after the goals they glibly say well we can't please everybody some will like it some wont.

Why didn't they adopt that approach when it was suggested and tell them no we can't have music after goals because we can't please everyone.

The simple answer is that it's not there to please the fans but to help to control them.

Watch how it works, we score on comes the music everyone bobs about in the same way to it, the music stops, everyone sits down - the stewards all sit there smug in the knowledge that no one will misbehave by, heaven forbid over doing the celebration for more than 15 seconds.

[Manwell Pablo]

The thing is the club will and does make changes, witness the music prior to the game, the change of the post horn gallop, the introduction of music after goals, the playing of hey Jude.

I don't remember them asking if the majority wanted these changes yet when Ched and co question, for example the music after the goals they glibly say well we can't please everybody some will like it some wont.

Why didn't they adopt that approach when it was suggested and tell them no we can't have music after goals because we can't please everyone.

The simple answer is that it's not there to please the fans but to help to control them.

Watch how it works, we score on comes the music everyone bobs about in the same way to it, the music stops, everyone sits down - the stewards all sit there smug in the knowledge that no one will misbehave by, heaven forbid over doing the celebration for more than 15 seconds.

The Majority of fans will eat up what the club feeds to them and this is exactly why complaining to the club will do no good.

[Simi]

The thing is the club will and does make changes, witness the music prior to the game, the change of the post horn gallop, the introduction of music after goals, the playing of hey Jude.

I don't remember them asking if the majority wanted these changes yet when Ched and co question, for example the music after the goals they glibly say well we can't please everybody some will like it some wont.

Why didn't they adopt that approach when it was suggested and tell them no we can't have music after goals because we can't please everyone.

The simple answer is that it's not there to please the fans but to help to control them.

Watch how it works, we score on comes the music everyone bobs about in the same way to it, the music stops, everyone sits down - the stewards all sit there smug in the knowledge that no one will misbehave by, heaven forbid over doing the celebration for more than 15 seconds.

Yes, this is what I've been getting at where people have said I am 'rubbishing what he is saying". When whoever suggested the idea of playing Chelsea Dagger I fail to see the same response given to them, it may even of been the messiah Martin Allen.

Then post horn gallop and Hey Jude. If these things weren't going to make every one happy, why are they allowing them? Maybe because the people that they value most came up with these ideas?

[Bert]

One of the points many people are missing is that, we're just becoming another plastic club, copying the trends of others.

Whatever happened to our originality? Whatever happened to Leicester City Football Club?

[Uncle Albert]

When you going to start your petition outside the ground? If you do have one that is. I may come and have a look. And you never know SSN's may come and have a look.

[Lillehamring]

Why the hardcore of fans on here who apparently sing cant simply say where they will be sitting from herein and then almost force the kids to move away once the dads realize that its the "lads" section is beyond me. Why we fraff about and need the club to sort out an area doesn't make sense to me as its not like we sell out every game and we cant just find a spot in the stadium where the noise makers can all converge.

what I said....

it is apparent that the club have things as they are to suit themselves, historically talking out a problem never solves anything, the only way you will change things is by doing it yourself, legally and within the clubs rule system, but doing it in numbers.

it is up to the fans to organise themselves, to find a place where they want to assemble and to behave how they want the club to let them behave. so, carry on singing and celebrating after the goals, when the music stops, if the whole of one section is still standing and dancing no steward is going take that on, they just pick on easy targets, if you can assemble 250-500 people, for a start to all sit in the same area, to support the people who start the songs, gradually the club will SEE what is happening, the fans will SEE what is happening people who don't want that atmosphere will move as quick as a flash, and people who like the look of it will move to be a part of it...

but it has to be proactive, discussions will get nowhere, energy needs to be focussed on getting people collected in a set place. the club can't prevent this, and when they see wheat is happening, they will realise it is easier to manage it than prevent it.

but it will take time and patience, but his is the only way you will grt the atmosphere back...

[MC Prussian]

Start collecting signatures for a petition; be ardent, patient and decent all at the same time and you will see what wonders mouth-to-mouth propaganda can do...

Once you have a large backing, things start getting easier.

Just do it. I'd sign it. Without hesitation.

[lcfc_jme]

Why the hardcore of fans on here who apparently sing cant simply say where they will be sitting from herein and then almost force the kids to move away once the dads realize that its the "lads" section is beyond me

It's not about being "from the old school" or about forcing people to move, football just isn't like that anymore these days. The needs of "everybody" must be catered for these days, and because we're becoming more and more of a plastic, identikit club, certain corners of the support are more valued than others... This means that the club would go to extensive measures to prevent another L1-esque group just standing and singing anywhere it could offend any supporters who are now there for the new "match-day experience"..

If you don't believe me, you'd only have to look at N Block as an example. Ok, we went through the club with that idea, but it still had a fairly decent-sized group standing and singing together. But when the club began receiving large numbers of complaints from people who were "intimidated" or unhappy with this group they strangled it and ensured that it wouldn't continue, making the people who complained very happy indeed.

You're saying a hardcore of fans on here should just state where they were going to be sitting like it'd make an iota of difference to anything. Lets face it, it wouldn't be the biggest group of people and most would be young lads who the stewards wouldn't mind going in and forcibly removing. The club would implement measures to stop this group growing before it even had the chance to be classed as a "lads section". They aren't stupid, they know exactly what they're doing and who they want to keep happy. It's all part of the increasing sanitisation of football and who will be more inclined to give them their hard-earned.

It's essentially a no-win situation for us. People want change but are too apathetic to help bring about said change. The club discuss our ideas behind the scenes but when they're approached by people suggesting what they discuss, they're quick to distance themselves from it.

[Simi]

what I said....

it is apparent that the club have things as they are to suit themselves, historically talking out a problem never solves anything, the only way you will change things is by doing it yourself, legally and within the clubs rule system, but doing it in numbers.

it is up to the fans to organise themselves, to find a place where they want to assemble and to behave how they want the club to let them behave. so, carry on singing and celebrating after the goals, when the music stops, if the whole of one section is still standing and dancing no steward is going take that on, they just pick on easy targets, if you can assemble 250-500 people, for a start to all sit in the same area, to support the people who start the songs, gradually the club will SEE what is happening, the fans will SEE what is happening people who don't want that atmosphere will move as quick as a flash, and people who like the look of it will move to be a part of it...

Not at all true, I'm afraid to say.

N block was exactly that. It had a good base of people like you say, all in the same area. There tended to be around 3-4 people across the back row that would start the songs and everybody would join in. But it didn't last like that. With our fans, it often seems that people are to egotistic and feel that them starting a song over one that already exists is going to make them a bigger person. You don't get it as much is a more concentrated area, but it still happens a lot of places. It now seems that it's the younger generation starting the chants and I feel that they don't respect each other, nor have respect from the elder fans. And why would they? I've heard from several people that used to attend Filbert Street that you would have some bloke starting a song off, and if you didn't join in, he would look like he'd kick the shit out of you. You don't have that anymore.

But back to the main point, where you say "people who don't want the atmosphere will move as quick as a flash". Not strictly correct. We had this situation with some of the members of the Family Stand. They didn't like what they saw so they complained. Fair enough, but there was no second thinking from the club, they acted and through people out and then made actions to restrict its activeness.

I've debated many times about setting off a target to get people to congregate together in the Kop, but if the idea of N Block didn't take off extremely well I don't see why that would. But it still is a small possibility.

[lcfc_jme]

it is up to the fans to organise themselves, to find a place where they want to assemble and to behave how they want the club to let them behave. so, carry on singing and celebrating after the goals, when the music stops, if the whole of one section is still standing and dancing no steward is going take that on, they just pick on easy targets, if you can assemble 250-500 people, for a start to all sit in the same area, to support the people who start the songs, gradually the club will SEE what is happening, the fans will SEE what is happening people who don't want that atmosphere will move as quick as a flash, and people who like the look of it will move to be a part of it...

It's a good idea and I'd love to be able to implement it, but finding bodies to make up numbers of 250+ is extremely difficult. As with the N Block idea, you leave yourselves open to ridicule and people take no notice of you because you're a younger member of the fanbase. It's easy to say find 250 people and all congregate in one area, but it's much harder to put these words into action.

Like I've said previously, when the club see it, they'll want to choke the life out of it to prevent it growing. I'm almost certain they do not want another L1 on their hands, and if they thought that this new congregation had the potential to be like L1, they'd kill it off before it had the chance to grow.

Fans will see what is happening and people who don't want that atmosphere will move? Not true. Ask Mr Jones - he had countless complaints from fans who didn't want atmosphere, fans that also didn't want to move but wanted the club to do something about it. Guess who won?

It's a nice idea in principle, but as with every idea, it's flawed and would be seriously hard to implement.

[lcfc_jme]

I'm sympathise with you I really do, but I am not one of these people who say "do something about it." I am one of those people who say the club wont change anything no matter what you do, so don't bother doing something about it. . I'm not saying going out trying to change things is bad but you've got look at who your dealing with, I told you all they'd trample all over you lot eventully when the idea of N block was first brought about and I was right. LCFC Backroom staff = wankers.

And I am not for one minute suggesting you are throwing your toys out the pram, I am telling you that raising the issue is pointless, they will never in a million years entertain the idea.

I respect that you have your own opinion on the matter and will admit you were right when you said that the club would eventually ruin N Block if we pressed ahead with letting them have input on the idea. But if everyone was as apathetic as what you seemingly claim to be, then there'd be nobody lobbying for change and definitely no chance of getting it.

I wouldn't necessarily say the issue was pointless, because up until now, the club haven't exactly come up with any powerful or particularly persuasive arguments to counter anything we've spoken to them about. I'm sure there's plenty more room for discussion on things we've said to them (ok, the whole standing issue is down to H&S, though we aren't asking them to implement any measures to bring it back, that isn't even on our agenda), and from the looks of things there will be further discussions in the not too-distant future.

[Ultra]

Yes, this is what I've been getting at where people have said I am 'rubbishing what he is saying". When whoever suggested the idea of playing Chelsea Dagger I fail to see the same response given to them, it may even have been the messiah Martin Allen.

It was.

He brought the idea with him from the franchise. And it should have been shown the door when he left.

[Foxes_Trust]

Also some 'not so constructive criticism' from other people.

One of the only reasons we went through the club was to help publicise the idea. Otherwise we were just relying on people from here to spread the word and that can only get so far.

I don't mind putting up with flak people who criticize us, but some telling us to just give up isn't really worth it.

We know the feeling Ched & take the same attitude about those telling us to give up

Some said that the club would never revert back to a 2 year kit deal, but we continued to question " how are the sales" & kept repeating what a bad commercial decision it was throughout the seasons the one year kit was in place.

We started making progress once Andrew Taylor became Chairman & quickly acknowledged it was a poor decision, while our first piece of advice to MM's representative was that he would gain popularity by reversing the decision & it wasn't too long after he took over that it was confirmed.

So keep on going

[Ultra]

I'm sympathise with you I really do, but I am not one of these people who say "do something about it." I am one of those people who say the club wont change anything no matter what you do, so don't bother doing something about it. .

That's not strictly true though - otherwise we'd still have Henry embarassing us all before each game.

It's only a couple of seasons ago that we persuaded the club to hold a survey on various issues, including unreserved seating (although they don't like it) and the option to switch the Kop and the family stand.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to have another survey this season, and see what the response rate is this time around. Perhaps this could be considered at the meeting with PJ.

[Lillehamring]

ched & jme... thanks for responding to my socialist rant, i know what you are saying, hell, it seems you really want to make changes, which is applaudable... however you have to accept that this is going to be a long, drawn out battle...

ok n-block failed, i'm afraid i don't know why, i assume there is still a body of people in L1 tho? you obviously want this and i guess, based on your responses to my post, you have to ask yourself a couple of things....

1. 'being ridiculed' - sorry, but that is something you will have to accept is gonna happen, a small price to pay, surely?

2. 'attitude problems' - well, either you just say 'fu(k it, these little bastards don't deserve a decent atmosphere' or you talk to them at half time, try to get over the spirit and the element of respect without seeming patronising (tricky, i know), try to get them to go to away games, to see how it can be, invite them along, maybe that will be 'cool' for them?

3. organising numbers - of course it is difficult, but that s what the club respond to unfortunately, hopefully now we're winning at home, this might get easier, but again it's all about communication

4. 'the club' - of course they'll try to stop you, but you have to play them at their own game - i know its shitty but it comes down to determination, singing while your sitting down, being prepared to get ejected, say everyone stands up with five minutes to go and just sings their heart out, if enough people do it, with everyone leaving, the stewards won't be able to do anything....

anyway, just some thoughts, i admire what you're doing and know why you want it so much, so good luck lads, you'll need it.

[Daggers]

We know the feeling Ched & take the same attitude about those telling us to give up

Some said that the club would never revert back to a 2 year kit deal, but we continued to question " how are the sales" & kept repeating what a bad commercial decision it was throughout the seasons the one year kit was in place.

We started making progress once Andrew Taylor became Chairman & quickly acknowledged it was a poor decision, while our first piece of advice to MM's representative was that he would gain popularity by reversing the decision & it wasn't too long after he took over that it was confirmed.

So keep on going

Yea Foxes Trust!

Now give up.