Is the abuse of our players really necessary?

[James.]

Nowadays it seems as if almost every other post contains something along the lines of "overpaid bastards", "useless c*nts", "lazy

wankers", "degenerates", "shit wasters", etc etc.

It appears to reflect a characteristic of Leicester supporters to be generally quite negative about the club - also illustrated by booing at the Walkers, our tendency to single out certain players for unwarranted abuse and the incessant moaning that proliferates around the Kop on match day.

Don't get me wrong, criticism of our players is necessary and inevitable given our current position. However firstly I really believe that much of the reason for our poor season is more to do with the instability coursing through the club as opposed to the players being particularly awful. And secondly regardless of how bad they are some of the language and terms being used is just unnecessary, unconstructive and ultimately counter-productive.

I have no idea how this thread will go down. I'm prepared, with a sense of irony, for some abuse. But it's been bothering me for awhile and I am interested to know if anyone feels the same.

Just take a look at pretty much every post by Matt if you need some examples of what I'm referring to.

[BigGibbo]

The majority of our players have been sh!t all season & it will be there fault at the end of the day if they take us down to the 3rd tier of english football for the first time in our history, therefor I can & shall call them degenerates if & when I feel it necessary.

[Fat Ron]

There is an understandable amount of negativity from Fans but that negativity should be channelled into ways to make it positive. Instead of booing players and calling them c*nts we should be saying how they played better in this game or that.

We appear to be at a point of no return, the vicious circle has begun. The players don't feel up for the fight because fans are on their backs before the game has even kicked off.

Its all too easy to talk about though. Me personally, I think they are all C*nts (except Mattock & Stears, they are ok)

[James.]

The majority of our players have been sh!t all season & it will be there fault at the end of the day if they take us down to the 3rd tier of english football for the first time in our history, therefor I can & shall call them degenerates if & when I feel it necessary.

This is where we differ. I look beneath the surface for reasons as to WHY the players have been shit. And I think that is a far more complex problem, certainly one that isn't resolved by calling them degenerates.

[BigGibbo]

I'd just like to point out im not one of these idiotic folk who boo or name call the players at all but please forgive me for not blowing smoke up there arses on a forum where I tend to vent my LCFC based frustrations.

[morris1234]

you know what i think the problem is, the players are too naive, like the fans and thought we are a big club we have good players and things will work themselves out but thats not the case obviously. i think each player has made a decision to let other players, knowing that there is quality in the side, to stand up and individually shine and push the team forward but nobody has and everybody has done the same things so its like pass the bleedin parcel! '

[Daggers]

I have no idea how this thread will go down. I'm prepared, with a sense of irony, for some abuse. But it's been bothering me for awhile and I am interested to know if anyone feels the same.

[BigGibbo]

This is where we differ. I look beneath the surface for reasons as to WHY the players have been shit. And I think that is a far more complex problem, certainly one that isn't resolved by calling them degenerates.

I didn't profess to resolving the matter but short of going down to the training ground & violently shaking a few of them I don't know how I could I'm just venting my frustrations in what appears to be a suitable habitat to do so!

If I actually came in to contact with said players I wouldn't be calling them degenerates I would probably just tell them they had been piss poor & brought shame upon our club but also acknowledge that the terrible setup & manager juggling didn't do them any favours.

I'd then ask them if they actually gave a shit about the club & if so how do they plan to go about proving it!

[davieG]

I agree, that's not say I wont or don't criticise players or management but I normally try to explain why I feel the way I do and at least put up a coherent (subjective I know) argument.

Having said that when I do I tend not to get many responses whether that's because people are bored by the length e.g more than 2 lines, or have misunderstood I don't know but calling some one names seems to provoke a far bigger response both for and against than any reasoned argument

[Tommy G]

Nowadays it seems as if almost every other post contains something along the lines of "overpaid bastards", "useless c*nts", "lazy

wankers", "degenerates", "shit wasters", etc etc.

It appears to reflect a characteristic of Leicester supporters to be generally quite negative about the club - also illustrated by booing at the Walkers, our tendency to single out certain players for unwarranted abuse and the incessant moaning that proliferates around the Kop on match day.

Don't get me wrong, criticism of our players is necessary and inevitable given our current position. However firstly I really believe that much of the reason for our poor season is more to do with the instability coursing through the club as opposed to the players being particularly awful. And secondly regardless of how bad they are some of the language and terms being used is just unnecessary, unconstructive and ultimately counter-productive.

I have no idea how this thread will go down. I'm prepared, with a sense of irony, for some abuse. But it's been bothering me for awhile and I am interested to know if anyone feels the same.

Just take a look at pretty much every post by Matt if you need some examples of what I'm referring to.

I agree with your post. But generally when you post a topic you always sit on the fence and don't really express any side of the opinion and try to cover all the bases to avoid criticism.

[James.]

I agree with your post. But generally when you post a topic you always sit on the fence and don't really express any side of the opinion and try to cover all the bases to avoid criticism.

Err I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. And to be perectly honest your little comments (like the foolish one you made in my Walsh thread) bore me.

In what way am I sitting on the fence with this topic?

In what way was I sitting on the fence by suggesting it might benefit the players if Walsh was to be brought in to speak to them over the next couple of weeks?

Furthermore accusing me of sitting on the fence is a bit rich coming from someone prone to passing off other people's opinions as his own.

[Thracian]

Nowadays it seems as if almost every other post contains something along the lines of "overpaid bastards", "useless c*nts", "lazy

wankers", "degenerates", "shit wasters", etc etc.

It appears to reflect a characteristic of Leicester supporters to be generally quite negative about the club - also illustrated by booing at the Walkers, our tendency to single out certain players for unwarranted abuse and the incessant moaning that proliferates around the Kop on match day.

Don't get me wrong, criticism of our players is necessary and inevitable given our current position. However firstly I really believe that much of the reason for our poor season is more to do with the instability coursing through the club as opposed to the players being particularly awful. And secondly regardless of how bad they are some of the language and terms being used is just unnecessary, unconstructive and ultimately counter-productive.

I have no idea how this thread will go down. I'm prepared, with a sense of irony, for some abuse. But it's been bothering me for awhile and I am interested to know if anyone feels the same.

Just take a look at pretty much every post by Matt if you need some examples of what I'm referring to.

Much of the unreasoned criticism reflects the sheer frustration of fans - it has been a long, long time since we had a team to be proud of.

I don't understand the need for bad language or the vitriolic slating of players - my feeling is still that we have some perfectly reasonable players and if someone said to me, you've not got a penny, the only players you can use are the ones we've got, how do you think you could do, I'd have said before the Colchester game that saving us from relegation was a certainty and that you could get this squad into the top 10 over a full season.

But the players have clearly underperformed and so had their leader. I've already offered a few reasons for this but you say you have your theories, though you don't say what they are.

I've every respect for people who don't want another change. Our fans seem to like lots of new players but to hang on to their managers if possible.

For me if we had far fewer changes in the team and were a bit more careful who we signed that would be more productive.

Some laughed at me when I said on various occasions that our squad was far too big and big squads make for a lot of pissed off and less than fully fit footballers.

But this error is only symptomatic of others. We need a manager who is a visionary, a leader, a motivator and a man who doesn't bend easily, if we can find one.

What we've got is a slightly eccentric trier who seems way out of his depth.

But if he stays, he stays. I've offered my opinion but I wouldn't campaign for his going - not at this stage and not at any time until I felt we had a sensible option and Dowie doesn't tick that box.

People I've wanted included Keegan, Ince and Newell but there was never any signs of them arriving.

If Holloways stays I just hope he listens and learns.

[hairy]

Safe Jeff - thanks for the length of the reply but I haven't got time/can't be arsed to reply back.

But you just did reply

Tommy, you really have got to sort yourself out.

[davieG]

Safe Jeff - thanks for the length of the reply but I haven't got time/can't be arsed to reply back.

I think that's called passing the buck, worse than sitting on the fence? I'll let others decide

[Raj]

When i hear of some of our players actually were laughing after saturdays result,damn right they deserve abuse.

[James.]

Much of the unreasoned criticism reflects the sheer frustration of fans - it has been a long, long time since we had a team to be proud of.

I don't understand the need for bad language or the vitriolic slating of players - my feeling is still that we have some perfectly reasonable players and if someone said to me, you've not got a penny, the only players you can use are the ones we've got, how do you think you could do, I'd have said before the Colchester game that saving us from relegation was a certainty and that you could get this squad into the top 10 over a full season.

But the players have clearly underperformed and so had their leader. I've already offered a few reasons for this but you say you have your theories, though you don't say what they are.

I agree with pretty much all of the above. My theories were summed up in my Holy Grail thread from awhile ago and if I remember rightly you pretty much agreed with them. They centred on stability off the pitch, spirit within the club and balance on the pitch.

[Vardinhio]

It is necesary. They are playing abysmally. If we don't how we are disgruntled and annoyed at some thing then not only are we sub0human robots but we are also poor fans of this club.

First and foremost everyone should support the team but the idea that the players don't deserve stick after Saturday is ludicrous. And if their best isn't good enough I don't care, it's the club and it's expectation we should meet, so if trying hard and failing is the best they can do at this level then that will never be good enough, it just shows we have the wrong calibre players here.

[Barry Trotter]

I think we definitely need a clean out in the summer whether we stay up or go down.

[James.]

It is necesary. They are playing abysmally. If we don't how we are disgruntled and annoyed at some thing then not only are we sub0human robots but we are also poor fans of this club.

First and foremost everyone should support the team but the idea that the players don't deserve stick after Saturday is ludicrous. And if their best isn't good enough I don't care, it's the club and it's expectation we should meet, so if trying hard and failing is the best they can do at this level then that will never be good enough, it just shows we have the wrong calibre players here.

I'm not saying they don't deserve stick. In my original post I made it quite clear that criticism is deserved and inevitable given our league position.

The point I'm making is that the level of vitriol I read on here regarding our players is disproportionate to the extent to which I hold the players responsible for our situation. I believe many of our players are essentially at the wrong club at the wrong time. Getting players to perform agaisnt a backdrop of constantly changing managers, coaching staff and players is a near impossible task.

It now seems perfectly acceptable to call the players c*nts and overpaid bastards, blah blah blah. That is not how I personally choose to support my club. Furthemore I don't believe it is deserved and I feel that it becomes counter productive to achieving the unity this club needs.

[Koke]

Much of the unreasoned criticism reflects the sheer frustration of fans - it has been a long, long time since we had a team to be proud of.

I don't understand the need for bad language or the vitriolic slating of players - my feeling is still that we have some perfectly reasonable players and if someone said to me, you've not got a penny, the only players you can use are the ones we've got, how do you think you could do, I'd have said before the Colchester game that saving us from relegation was a certainty and that you could get this squad into the top 10 over a full season.

But the players have clearly underperformed and so had their leader. I've already offered a few reasons for this but you say you have your theories, though you don't say what they are.

I've every respect for people who don't want another change. Our fans seem to like lots of new players but to hang on to their managers if possible.

For me if we had far fewer changes in the team and were a bit more careful who we signed that would be more productive.

Some laughed at me when I said on various occasions that our squad was far too big and big squads make for a lot of pissed off and less than fully fit footballers.

But this error is only symptomatic of others. We need a manager who is a visionary, a leader, a motivator and a man who doesn't bend easily, if we can find one.

What we've got is a slightly eccentric trier who seems way out of his depth.

But if he stays, he stays. I've offered my opinion but I wouldn't campaign for his going - not at this stage and not at any time until I felt we had a sensible option and Dowie doesn't tick that box.

People I've wanted included Keegan, Ince and Newell but there was never any signs of them arriving.

If Holloways stays I just hope he listens and learns.

On the whole I wholeheartedly agree with you. Especially the bit in bold. You are one of the few people of the anti-Ollie brigade (if I can add you on that) who put put down a reasonable argument as to why he is not good enough here - I respect that. Most other people just slate him right down and scream Ollie Out.

Abusing and slating players doesn't do us any good. I more often than not to try and put down a coherent argument as to why such and such is woeful.

[Rocky Dennis]

As someone that contributes to their wages I feel I have the right to say what I like.

Are you saying that supporter negativity caused Fryatt to miss the 6 yard sitter?

Footballers are quite happy to take the plaudits, awards, and hero worship that comes when things are going well, and in most cases they deserve the praise, but they also have to accept the opposite.

We are going down because they are (insert insult here) not because the fans are too negative!!

[Cat Burger]

I don't really think there's much of an argument here, it boils down to different personalities. Yes it is wrong to personally insult players, but this club means a great deal to a lot of people, who are all different. People have varying degrees of control over their own emotions, and FTB you seem to be able to remain calm and detatched about it. However the overwhelming feeling I possess at the moment is one of apathy, which is uncontrollabe and not self conditioned in any way. After and during the game on Saturday, I felt, personally, that there was the overriding surrender of the crowd, in line with how I felt. At times I was pissing myself at the situation I don't know about anyone else. Of course, this isn't constructive either...

I feel the boo boys are the minority, but because others have nothing to sing or be happy about, they are the only ones we can hear. I wouldn't know what to suggest to be honest, the players don't react to support, criticism, booing...As someone has said since Saturday, there's only so much a fan, a set of fans, can give.

Everyone's looking for a solution to something that seems untenable. We know we can't look to Holloway, the only thing he could come up with 'a chat and a coffee after the game', one to one with that disgruntled fan, a more ridiculous suggestion that anything I've read on here. He'd be smacked up to his tits on caffeine if everyone with anxieties got hold of him.

[James.]

I don't really think there's much of an argument here, it boils down to different personalities. Yes it is wrong to personally insult players, but this club means a great deal to a lot of people, who are all different. People have varying degrees of control over their own emotions, and FTB you seem to be able to remain calm and detatched about it. However the overwhelming feeling I possess at the moment is one of apathy, which is uncontrollabe and not self conditioned in any way. After and during the game on Saturday, I felt, personally, that there was the overriding surrender of the crowd, in line with how I felt. At times I was pissing myself at the situation I don't know about anyone else. Of course, this isn't constructive either...

I feel the boo boys are the minority, but because others have nothing to sing or be happy about, they are the only ones we can hear. I wouldn't know what to suggest to be honest, the players don't react to support, criticism, booing...As someone has said since Saturday, there's only so much a fan, a set of fans, can give.

Everyone's looking for a solution to something that seems untenable. We know we can't look to Holloway, the only thing he could come up with 'a chat and a coffee after the game', one to one with that disgruntled fan, a more ridiculous suggestion that anything I've read on here. He'd be smacked up to his tits on caffeine if everyone with anxieties got hold of him.

That's a good post and the sort of comment I was hoping to provoke when I started the thread. Agree completely about the personality thing, people choose to vent their frustrations differently. My problem is when personal overt abuse of players becomes acceptable as I believe people who do this are missing the point of why we are where we are. I also think this negative frustration builds up and is evident on match days which does nothing to help our situation.

I'm as passionate as the next man about the club, the difference is I try to look at the bigger picture and direct this passion in a positive way. Again, like you said, at least to some extent that's down to personality.

[Cat Burger]

That's a good post and the sort of comment I was hoping to provoke when I started the thread. Agree completely about the personality thing, people choose to vent their frustrations differently. My problem is when personal overt abuse of players becomes acceptable as I believe people who do this are missing the point of why we are where we are. I also think this negative frustration builds up and is evident on match days which does nothing to help our situation.

I'm as passionate as the next man about the club, the difference is I try to look at the bigger picture and direct this passion in a positive way. Again, like you said, at least to some extent that's down to personality.

Yeah, I'm afraid you won't get much more out of me because I'm supposed to be writing my dissertation but, the negativity is a real problem, I remember at some point during the second half there was some nice play in the box and someone put Hayles in but it was well cut out (his touch wasn't great either.) Eventually it might've opened up for us if we'd carried on playing like that, but instantly the fans had a go at Hayles.

[Raj]

Different people and the way they react is indeed the key.

what else would make a normally sensible( i am presuming!) bloke walk onto the pitch knowing he will atleast be banned for a good few years.

Also what would make twats fans remove their shoes and wave them around!!!

The players dont deserve praise(maybe a couple) and i can see a few more people letting off steam after The Sheff Wed game...especially if we dont get the right result.