Ashley Posted 1 May 2008 Posted 1 May 2008 Leeds have been given a total of 0Points back, Leeds currently have a play off place. Swansea are champions.
Joe. Posted 1 May 2008 Posted 1 May 2008 Good. It would have caused so many problems had they been given them back.
Ashley Posted 1 May 2008 Author Posted 1 May 2008 Good. It would have caused so many problems had they been given them back. Agreed, I feel sorry for Swansea not being able to lift there league cup last saturday.
C-man Posted 1 May 2008 Posted 1 May 2008 Good decision. Would have made a mockery of the league if the deduction was overturned.
davieG Posted 1 May 2008 Posted 1 May 2008 I'm glad they didn't change their minds but I'm not a believer in clubs being docked points at all and then it should only be football related incidents that have or could have direct bearing on the out come of matches. This punishment was for " breaking competition insolvency rules." I'm assuming this a financial offence and I think a more suitable punishment would be to ban those responsible for having any further dealings with the running of any football club. Points deductions punishes fans and these types of incidents are not directly caused by fans.
leedslad Posted 1 May 2008 Posted 1 May 2008 Fair play, a decision has been made (this time by a legitimate body) and it should be respected. The reasoning behind the decision does appear to be utter tosh though. They say we left it too late to appeal- even though we started going through the FL's appeal process 23 days after the original decision- it is the FL that has dragged it out for this long. They also say it would be unfair on the other clubs (despite us winning more games than them). I don't think other clubs should have even come into it. The question was 'was the deduction fair or unjust'- that doesn't invite the feelings of other clubs into the debate whatsoever. I'm also concerned over the precedent this decision sets, as now (if consistency is to be maintained) every club that enters administration will recieve an initial -10, followed by -15. So, Luton, Bournemouth and Rotheram will be the next victims to break a rule that doesn't exist... Anyway, we'll now be galvanised again as a club which should work for us in the play-offs ...but I fully expect us to fook up royally in the final, as that's what we're best at.
Corky Posted 1 May 2008 Posted 1 May 2008 Correct decision. It would have messed up the final day, and would have been unfair on the automatic promotion chasers. And it's Leeds, so even better What I do find hilarious is now the Leeds fans are coming out with "Well we want to do it the hard way". If they'd been given the points back I don't think they'd have refused them.
davieG Posted 1 May 2008 Posted 1 May 2008 Fair play, a decision has been made (this time by a legitimate body) and it should be respected.The reasoning behind the decision does appear to be utter tosh though. They say we left it too late to appeal- even though we started going through the FL's appeal process 23 days after the original decision- it is the FL that has dragged it out for this long. They also say it would be unfair on the other clubs (despite us winning more games than them). I don't think other clubs should have even come into it. The question was 'was the deduction fair or unjust'- that doesn't invite the feelings of other clubs into the debate whatsoever. I'm also concerned over the precedent this decision sets, as now (if consistency is to be maintained) every club that enters administration will recieve an initial -10, followed by -15. So, Luton, Bournemouth and Rotheram will be the next victims to break a rule that doesn't exist... Anyway, we'll now be galvanised again as a club which should work for us in the play-offs ...but I fully expect us to fook up royally in the final, as that's what we're best at. Can you sum up why the extra 15 points where deducted I wasn't aware that it was directly linked to your admin? Are you saying thet it is inevitable for every club entering admnistration to " break the competition insolvency rules."
dandannieldanok Posted 1 May 2008 Posted 1 May 2008 I'm glad they didn't change their minds but I'm not a believer in clubs being docked points at all and then it should only be football related incidents that have or could have direct bearing on the out come of matches.This punishment was for " breaking competition insolvency rules." I'm assuming this a financial offence and I think a more suitable punishment would be to ban those responsible for having any further dealings with the running of any football club. Points deductions punishes fans and these types of incidents are not directly caused by fans. I agree with you no matter how much I dislike Leeds. Also, this points deduction could be in a strange way more financially beneficial for them. If they had the points reinstated they would have been almost sure of 2nd place, but I doubt the extra finance for finishing higher in the league will be as money-spinning as going through the play-offs.
act smiley Posted 1 May 2008 Posted 1 May 2008 Can you sum up why the extra 15 points where deducted I wasn't aware that it was directly linked to your admin? Are you saying thet it is inevitable for every club entering admnistration to " break the competition insolvency rules." Exiting administration without a CVA. The CVA is needed because the FA requires that football creditors be paid up with greater priority than other creditors, I think. Unfortunately for Leeds, one of their main creditors was the Inland Revenue. When using a CVA, tax debts have to be paid in full, which gave Leeds the option of create a proper CVA and pay their taxes and football payments, which were most of their debt anyway, and hope to write off the rest, or to come out of adminstration without a CVA. Penalty for it was originally that a team wouldn't be able to continue within the competition as the league wouldn't consider them financially solvent, but when Leeds did it they wrangled out a deal of getting in, at the cost of points, which a clause that they wouldn't appeal. Didn't take them long to.
Manwell Pablo Posted 1 May 2008 Posted 1 May 2008 Fair play, a decision has been made (this time by a legitimate body) and it should be respected.The reasoning behind the decision does appear to be utter tosh though. They say we left it too late to appeal- even though we started going through the FL's appeal process 23 days after the original decision- it is the FL that has dragged it out for this long. They also say it would be unfair on the other clubs (despite us winning more games than them). I don't think other clubs should have even come into it. The question was 'was the deduction fair or unjust'- that doesn't invite the feelings of other clubs into the debate whatsoever. I'm also concerned over the precedent this decision sets, as now (if consistency is to be maintained) every club that enters administration will recieve an initial -10, followed by -15. So, Luton, Bournemouth and Rotheram will be the next victims to break a rule that doesn't exist... Anyway, we'll now be galvanised again as a club which should work for us in the play-offs ...but I fully expect us to fook up royally in the final, as that's what we're best at. Yes but they wont, as I assume their adminstrators will wont **** up in quite the way yours did, wasn't this all caused by Ken Bates and the aministrators pissing about. I don't know the ins and outs of it but the deduction was for failing to comply with proper insolvency policy not going into administration. I could never see it being over turned as Leeds signed papers agreeig to the deduction, it was the only reason they were allowed to compete this season. And while I agree other teams shouldn't come into it, you have to admit it's a pretty bad time to launch an appeal (one game left for crying out loud) and expect those involved to total ignore the feelings of other clubs, whether they're supposed to our not. Had the appeal been carried out sooner (I know it was difficult due to the Football League refusing to let you appeal) then I could see the reduction being reduced.
Simi Posted 1 May 2008 Posted 1 May 2008 Leeds fan on SSN "Same old Leeds, cheated again". "Can't say I'm surprised, everyone hates Leeds. "Everyone hates us, even the Football League, we'll unite and show them, Super Leeds". Twats.
Father Ted Posted 1 May 2008 Posted 1 May 2008 Leeds fan on SSN "Same old Leeds, cheated again". "Can't say I'm surprised, everyone hates Leeds. "Everyone hates us, even the Football League, we'll unite and show them, Super Leeds".Twats.
leedslad Posted 1 May 2008 Posted 1 May 2008 Can you sum up why the extra 15 points where deducted I wasn't aware that it was directly linked to your admin? Are you saying thet it is inevitable for every club entering admnistration to " break the competition insolvency rules." To put it very simply; it was for exiting administration without a CVA. (We instead used an EVA). The 15 points came off as HMRC (Revenue & Customs) have changed their approach to football insolvency. Previously, a football club that entered administration had to pay the footballing creditors (e.g. other teams) 100% of what they were owed, then they could pay whatever they could afford to non-footballing creditors (e.g. suppliers and HMRC- as they would take an '£x amount is better than nothing approach). HMRC then decided (correctly) that it was in their interest to attempt to get parity with footalling creditors, so they rejected our CVA. This then left us without being able to leave administration through a CVA (a CVA is the FL's reccomended approach). We therefore had to leave adminsitration through an EVA (slightly different- I think it is for exceptional circumstances- can't remember what the 'E' stands for right now), this obviously deviated from the FL's reccomended approach so we were deducted 15 points for breaching the FL's insolvency rules- despite no legislation actually existing for this set of circumstances. Yes, I am saying that every club that goes into administration should (if consistency is maintained) also have a 15 point deduction too. This will continue to happen as long as HMRC maintains it's parity claim, or the FL doesn't create proper legislation. So Bournemouth, Luton and Rochdale are at risk, as is any other club that goes into administration (that is why todays decision was so important- it effects everyone and could seriously mess-up the leagues later on if/when this economic downturn hits clubs en masse). If a club agreed to pay HMRC 100% of their debt, then this could change the situation and create a new precedent, but that is both unclear and unlikely. ...Apologies for spelling/grammar.
Father Ted Posted 1 May 2008 Posted 1 May 2008 Let me put it simplest, Leeds were deducted 15 points because nobody likes them and they cheated the Football League by going into admin after they had been relegated.
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