Ollie's knockers

[Daggers]

A 1 Million pound pay off is minimal compared to spending a couple of years in league 1, which is highly likely if Holloway were to stay.

I can not believe that a man who has been through the playing and managerial career that Holloway has can be described as having "the tactical aptitude of a national lottery pen"? I'm not even sure what the analogy means.

The financial trade off is an important consideration - but I'm guessing you have never had to make a decision of that magnitude? I reckon it's easier to make when it is someone else's money on the line...don't make it the right one though.

[Corky]

Are you talking to yourself Bob?

[Daggers]

Are you playing with yourself Bob?

Always.

Until I run out of KY anyway.

[kendalfox]

Disco Bob:

Are you Holloway in disguise???

[Ultra]

Campbell, Fryatt and Hume...Clemence and McCauley. Kisnorbo and N'Gotty. Stearman and Mattock - not forgetting Sheehan.

Sheehan's been out of the picture since December. But surely not even you could argue that effectively swapping him for Clapham brought any positive benefit to the club or to results?

Come on! Stop trying to warp facts to suit your argument - all the players choked and any part-time psychologist will be able to explain to you the reasons why the new additions started performing as badly as the old guard. His signings did not perform worse and arguments regarding mid-season signing success are long-held, he can not be held totally responsible for their failings.

Do you really think that, had results gone differently, and we'd made the playoffs (or even the top half), he wouldn't be shouting from the rooftops and claiming every last drop of credit as his own?

And many on here would argue that his signings HAVE performed worse - see the DeVries v. Howard thread as an example.

I'll gloss over the trite personal insult - if you can not be civil then refrain from holding a discussion.

You deal in personal insults more than anyone on this board. I referred to what you wrote (which I note you failed to defend).

The Chairman and managers. Yes, and the bit that I added is the salient point - it is the culmination of mistakes that has brought us to this point not the sole decisions of one individual.

But some have made more mistakes than others. Worse still, they don't appear to learn from them.

I don't need to - the onus is on someone to provide a credible alternative to the incumbent. Some names have been raised in this thread that I believe may offer a marginal advantage to Holloway - but until it can be proved that they would consider the vacancy and that the financial balance would not effect the club adversly, the choice is impossible to make.

Previous failing managers (with records far better than this one) were not given this benefit of the doubt. You have failed to give any credible reason why Mandaric should show it on this occasion.

As far as evidence, as sparce as it is, Holloway has achieved promotion from this division

,

..at the THIRD attempt. Do you want him to be given that much time here?

he has the support of key members of the squad (Ref: Barnsley).

That's disputable (Ref: Colchester, Sheff W. Stoke)

He wasn't "told" - some people on a forum demanded it, the difference is obvious. What he was told is not public domain.

Whatever, his style is well known, and it doesn't work.

And after Monday, neither will he, at least for us.

[Corky]

Disco Bob:

Are you Holloway in disguise???

No, I am

"Who do you think ooh arrr? I've just picked up a bird, she ain't good-looking but I'll take her in for a lemonade. Humey's a little runt".

I apologise for my awful impression of Ian Holloway, delete it if you feel its for the best

[Daggers]

Disco Bob:

Are you Holloway in disguise???

Yes. Yes I am.

Holloway in a fat suit.

Holloway in a fat suit with a half-empty bottle of gin and a hankering for some video-game violence.

[Ultra]

The financial trade off is an important consideration - but I'm guessing you have never had to make a decision of that magnitude? I reckon it's easier to make when it is someone else's money on the line...don't make it the right one though.

Well I have - and it turned out to be the right decision.

Thracian and I would be happy to act as recruitment consultants for Mandaric. At least then he'd be assured of value for money.

[Daggers]

But surely not even you could...

And at this point I check out from being civil to you and entertaining you in debate.

[kendalfox]

And at this point I check out from being civil to you and entertaining you in debate.

If this means you're finally going to refrain from posting about keeping Holloway then may I, on behalf of the majority of FT say this:

Halle-fecking-lujah!!!

[Daggers]

[stuff]

Inspirational post.

I look forward to the rest in the series.

[kendalfox]

Inspirational post.

I look forward to the rest in the series.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Thracian]

Enough of you perverted meanderings, there's children reading this forum...well, dannyboy - but he could be disturbed by that.

If Penny was interested I'd be interested in him - a manager who players enjoy playing for.

I'm still not convinced that this is the case. It's like the accusation that he's lost the changing room - from what I saw at Barnsley this was well far from the mark. I feel that it was a number of players who bottled it, and Holloway found it impossible to raise them - but I am certain that this applies for any manager...the players level was found in a very sad way.

I like to think that in life you have ups and downs - I am not defined by the mistakes I have made (apart from that one incident with the Nun) and I don't apply that to others. So he was here when we went down...the drop for this team has been inevitable for seasons. He managed to accrue a number of points that should have kept us up and we have been subjected to the absolute worst streak of luck I have seen a team suffer beyond having points taken off us.

I agree that if someone better is on offer then we change managers...but the proviso has to be the new bloke is better. Otherwise I am happy for Holloway to turn this all around over the summer, to build a team he has created not partially inherited.

But he has to attack.

Holloway has no soul as a football manager. He's sold it piece by piece since he came here, shedding the last morsel in the match against Stoke when to attack and to score was an absolute necessity. He coped out Disco.

He hadn't the wisdom, the bottle or the passion. We didn't lose a fight for survival that day. We surrendered. We had no pride. No attitude. Instead of roaring our defiance we sought shelter. We spat on our history and pulled the lever for our own execution. I felt so sorry for Stearman. He was always game for the fight.

[Daggers]

Pot. Kettle. Black.

What a twat! Where do you people come from?

That makes no sense whatsoever - you don't need to be posting here if you don't want to debate the issue. You want a virtual fight, go find some children outside the 7-11.

Bye bye prissy-britches.

[Corky]

Holloway has no soul as a football manager. He's sold it piece by piece since he came shedding the last morsel in the match against Stoke when to attack and to score was an absolute necessity. He coped out Disco.

He hadn't the wisdom, the bottle or the passion. We didn't lose a fight for survival that day. We surrendered. We had no pride. No attitude. Instead of roaring our defiance we sought shelter. We spat on our history and pulled the lever for our own execution. I felt so sorry for Stearman. He never quit.

So basically to sum up, he's tactically naive, has no bottle and should go?

[Daggers]

Holloway has no soul as a football manager. He's sold it piece by piece since he came shedding the last morsel in the match against Stoke when to attack and to score was an absolute necessity. He coped out Disco.

He hadn't the wisdom, the bottle or the passion. We didn't lose a fight for survival that day. We surrendered. We had no pride. No attitude. Instead of roaring our defiance we sought shelter. We spat on our history and pulled the lever for our own execution. I felt so sorry for Stearman. He was always game for the fight.

I know what you mean, but as I was saying to Kilworth after the game - he has a choice and in his position I doubt many would have been gung-ho in their approach, it was always going to be a trade-off.

It's an aside though isn't it, Tony - the whole "kick him out" brigade stands on shifting sands. Without the finance to do it and the ability to drop in a replacement that can perform the job better there is no argument to be had?

[Thracian]

So basically to sum up, he's tactically naive, has no bottle and should go?

His begging for a chance to take us back up is pathetic.

But for his incompetence we should never have gone down.

An honourable man would have resigned in shock and shame.

But his feelings don't matter one bit.

If he's sincere in taking the blame for our fall into oblivion then he's unambiguously declared that his management was not just at fault but appalling, because the consequences were appalling.

He didn't listen before, on so many issues, so why should he listen in future?

And even were he given his chance, what earthly reason is there to believe he will suddenly have a personality transplant and start to do things differently or that players will suddenly have universal respect for him across the club?

Why should they? It won't happen. He's shat on so many for no reason they'll understand.

So, before anything else, we need a leader at our club that the players do respect and believe in. A leader who doesn't preach empty words but has supreme confidence in his players, takes trouble to make them special, stands their corner in any conflict and against any criticism and who unites those guys around him like a gleaming steel fortress.

Spirit. That, first and foremost, makes a football team.

Spirit and direction. Not conflicting comments and psychological insincerity.

We need goals not a man whose personal watchword is "caution".

It isn't just the points you mention.

There's an encyclopaedia of reasons for saying goodbye to the guy.

[The Reverend]

Well it's been quite a few hours now, and still no-one has come up with a viable replacement for Holloway.

The silence is deafening.

[Thracian]

I know what you mean, but as I was saying to Kilworth after the game - he has a choice and in his position I doubt many would have been gung-ho in their approach, it was always going to be a trade-off.

It's an aside though isn't it, Tony - the whole "kick him out" brigade stands on shifting sands. Without the finance to do it and the ability to drop in a replacement that can perform the job better there is no argument to be had?

I'm well aware of the problems that faced the manager for the Stoke game which only emphasises how vital the need was to be far more positive in preceeding games so the Last Stand at Stoke wasn't necessary, but that's not the way he chose, as we all know and saw.

Debate about that approach no longer matters - the results were there for all to see.

And while I don't pretend to know the list of potential managerial replacements and would agree it is probably far more limited than some fans have optimistically suggested, various people have been mentioned who, I'm fairly sure, might be interested or worth approaching.

None would have quite the charisma and leadership qualities I'd love to see but I'm sure they'd be capable of restoring pride and dignity at the club.

After all they don't have a world beater to replace. Holloway's managerial achievements have hardly been notable at all so far, at least by my expectations, and in quite a long career.

[coale39]

An honourable man would have resigned in shock and shame.

I think him quitting would have been easy. The fact that he wants to put it right, stay here and accept what went wrong this season and face all the shite coming his way shows us that he is an 'honourable man'.

[Finnegan]

Kendal, while you may or may not agree with Bob, he's put forth his argument eloquently and concisely. You don't speak for the majority of Foxes Talk, you speak for the juvenile minority that aren't essentially welcome. This forum exists for the purpose of debate, if we all agreed there'd be no point in having a board for discussion we'd simply have a bunch of read-only news updates.

If you want to troll and flame I suggest you take it elsewhere. You want to stay in Swan Lesta country (I still don't get that "joke") I suggest you exercise, at very least, an Ultra level of decorum.

[DanTheFox07]

There is hardly a lack of reasonable replacements.

Royle, Tigana, Collins, Davies...

All better than Holloway.

Oh my day`s you having a laugh? Royle - what has this guy ever achieved? tigana - been out of the game far too long Collins - has never managed in English league and not enough experience Davies - Not good enough to keep Derby in the prem so why good enough for us? If you Said Paul Ince then I might have thought u had some sense.

[act smiley]

Oh my day`s you having a laugh? Royle - what has this guy ever achieved?

More FA Cups than this club ever has.

tigana - been out of the game far too long

One season.

Collins - has never managed in English league and not enough experience

A mighty six months behind Paul Ince, due to his leaving Hibs.

Davies - Not good enough to keep Derby in the prem so why good enough for us?

There's one key factor in this...

If you Said Paul Ince then I might have thought u had some sense.

Come on, why is he going to leave them for us - while I agree he'd be good, I think we missed the boat on this one. If we'd gone in for him instead of Holloway, he'd probably have come, but now we're in the same league he'd probably consider it a pointless risk to move.

[Jimmy]

Well it's been quite a few hours now, and still no-one has come up with a viable replacement for Holloway.

The silence is deafening.

Kevin Bond

[Jimmy]

I think him quitting would have been easy. The fact that he wants to put it right, stay here and accept what went wrong this season and face all the shite coming his way shows us that he is an 'honourable man'.

no the only reason he hasn't quit is that he wants the big fat pay-off from being sacked