The Smoking Ban

[poynton blue]

The one I worked in used to have an old boy with one of those buzzy things and a big hole in his throat. Nice.

Smokers give people aids of the eyes - it's been proven by scientists, boffins and top docs.

Non smokers have a small penis and support Derby........Fact

[Daggers]

So a five year prison sentance for carrying a knife is not enforceable?????

I think whats been happening recently most people would back that idea,i think something like that must happen soon!!!!

There is no other alternative

Fishermen? Hunters? Horsey riders? People coming back from the shops with a kitchen set? Collectors?

Knives are available in every single house in the country for legitimate reasons and to criminalise the possession of a knife would require proof of intent of use which (because naughty people have the bad habit of not telling the truth when asked) is nigh-on impossible. Thus, what point of a law when convictions would be almost nil?

It is illegal to carry an offensive weapon, this law exists and is implemented when a success of conviction is probable.

It is lamentable that youths carry these things and use them on each other but criminalising the possession of a knife in public is not the way forward. Half the people leaving IKEA would be locked up at that rate...hang on a minute, maybe I'm suddenly seeing the positive aspects of this law!

Non smokers have a small penis and support Derby........Fact

I'm annoyed I had to put down by giant-cock-owner's spliff in order to write this reply.

[purpleronnie]

Fishermen? Hunters? Horsey riders? People coming back from the shops with a kitchen set? Collectors?

Knives are available in every single house in the country for legitimate reasons and to criminalise the possession of a knife would require proof of intent of use which (because naughty people have the bad habit of not telling the truth when asked) is nigh-on impossible. Thus, what point of a law when convictions would be almost nil?

It is illegal to carry an offensive weapon, this law exists and is implemented when a success of conviction is probable.

It is lamentable that youths carry these things and use them on each other but criminalising the possession of a knife in public is not the way forward. Half the people leaving IKEA would be locked up at that rate...hang on a minute, maybe I'm suddenly seeing the positive aspects of this law!

I'm annoyed I had to put down by giant-cock-owner's spliff in order to write this reply.

Reminds me of a story I saw on CNN over here. Apparantly at wimbledon police arrested a 60 year old man because his picnic basket had a knife in it. The American presenters had a nice laugh at that.

[poynton blue]

Fishermen? Hunters? Horsey riders? People coming back from the shops with a kitchen set? Collectors?

Knives are available in every single house in the country for legitimate reasons and to criminalise the possession of a knife would require proof of intent of use which (because naughty people have the bad habit of not telling the truth when asked) is nigh-on impossible. Thus, what point of a law when convictions would be almost nil?

It is illegal to carry an offensive weapon, this law exists and is implemented when a success of conviction is probable.

It is lamentable that youths carry these things and use them on each other but criminalising the possession of a knife in public is not the way forward. Half the people leaving IKEA would be locked up at that rate...hang on a minute, maybe I'm suddenly seeing the positive aspects of this law!

I'm annoyed I had to put down by giant-cock-owner's spliff in order to write this reply.

Criminalising possession of carrying a knife is the way forward. We cant let these scum (and i dont mean fisherman carpet fitters etc.. you sarky git) continue

Im all for national service or anything tougher than whats at present,to get these scum off the street,and to stop the misery of these poor familys

[Guest]

I am enjoying the smoking ban. It's a filthy habit, and not having someone's smoke inflicted on me is great. :thumbsup:

I don't care how many smokers I upset, either.

[James.]

Criminalising possession of carrying a knife is the way forward.

Total nonsense. And not just for the perfectly valid reasons Daggers has already given.

[Dr The Singh]

Postitives: No more smelling like a ashtray in pub!! and I actually can see accross the pub!! Mates that smoke say it's a great way of meeting women in smoking designated areas!!!

Negative: Beer gardens are full of smokers and it interupts socail activity within mates who are smokers and non smokers!!

[poynton blue]

Total nonsense. And not just for the perfectly valid reasons Daggers has already given.

No wonder this country is in a shite state with your liberal spinless yogurt knitting opinions

What is wrong with you people??? dont you read the papers, watch the news?? dont you think we should be tougher on knife crime??

its a no brainer........you are the one talking the nonsence and are in the minority

[Daggers]

Criminalising possession of carrying a knife is the way forward. We cant let these scum (and i dont mean fisherman carpet fitters etc.. you sarky git) continue

Im all for national service or anything tougher than whats at present,to get these scum off the street,and to stop the misery of these poor familys

As I said - possession of an offensive weapon is already an offence.

I'm not being sarcastic, honest! I simply see it as a totally unworkable law which is why it'll not be brought in.

I'm all for targeted approaches though - banning dole money for anyone under 25 for a start-off, if they can't get a proper job then they should be on a scheme or learning a trade in the Forces. It's high time we stopped paying people to sit and watch daytime TV. And then there should be a decent deterrent: the use of a knife as an offensive weapon or to cause injury or death should carry huge sentences. Huge. I can be quite tough for a wishy-washy left-of-centre liberal

[Master Fox]

Fishermen? Hunters? Horsey riders? People coming back from the shops with a kitchen set? Collectors?

Knives are available in every single house in the country for legitimate reasons and to criminalise the possession of a knife would require proof of intent of use which (because naughty people have the bad habit of not telling the truth when asked) is nigh-on impossible. Thus, what point of a law when convictions would be almost nil?

It is illegal to carry an offensive weapon, this law exists and is implemented when a success of conviction is probable.

It is lamentable that youths carry these things and use them on each other but criminalising the possession of a knife in public is not the way forward. Half the people leaving IKEA would be locked up at that rate...hang on a minute, maybe I'm suddenly seeing the positive aspects of this law!

I'm annoyed I had to put down by giant-cock-owner's spliff in order to write this reply.

You poke fun at every aspect of life i enjoy, I even shop at Ikea.

[James.]

No wonder this country is in a shite state with your liberal spinless yogurt knitting opinions

What is wrong with you people??? dont you read the papers, watch the news?? dont you think we should be tougher on knife crime??

its a no brainer........you are the one talking the nonsence and are in the minority

I think the fact the country is in a shite state has more to do with knee-jerk, uneducated, naive, out-of-touch reactions from people like you.

Have you actually spoken to any of the young people committing these knife crimes? Do you really think locking them up for a couple of years will enhance society in the long run? Do you have any idea what these young people think?

It's brainless reactionary policies from MP's and the half-witted media obsessed public which does absolutely nothing to help matters. Speak to people involved in youth work, speak to charity workers, speak to outreach workers who actually go out into the communities and speak day to day about these issues.

It's a massive, complicated issue.

What do I think should be done?

I think there has to be more education at an early age. These kids need to understand the consequences of their crime, not in terms of jail sentences, but in terms of family devastation and the pain and anguish it causes. Right now they just don't care. I think a lot of them realise what they are doing is wrong, they know it's not "right" to carry a knife but they do it because of peer pressure and for protection.

There needs to be a focus on family and the specific cultural issues that affect certain groups of young males. More work has to be done on the ground, face to face. Not hiding behind a knife ban. The issue of drugs also needs to be thought about in more radical ways. The case for total legalisation is a strong one.

I'm sick of hearing MP's talking about getting tough. It's all bollocks. It won't work. They haven't got a clue. There is a big problem right now. Kids are getting killed in London at a worrying rate. It's just a shame that the people who know how to at the very least have a positive effect on the problem continue to go unheard.

[Daggers]

Have you actually spoken to any of the young people committing these knife crimes? Do you really think locking them up for a couple of years will enhance society in the long run? Do you have any idea what these young people think?

As a yoghurt-knitter myself, I don't give a **** what they think when it comes to knife carrying. I have taught the little ****ers and, no, I don't believe locking them up for two years will enhance society. I believe a ten year minimum for intent to harm will.

And for murder - life for life.

[Jordan]

CNN was reporting a week ago that pubs are closing down in the UK at an unprecedented rate--I think 40 pubs are going out of business in the country every week now.

But looking at the entire economic picture, this isn't all bad news. Less people are smoking, and as such are more likely to be healthy have more money to spend on other things. Cigarette taxes in the UK bring in billions of dollars, but like a lot of "sin taxes," that money doesn't go directly to tobacco-related issues or programs (anti-smoking campaigns, health care, etc.) but rather to other things, like education. Oddly enough, while the government is doing lots to promote the idea of quitting smoking, it is dependent upon a massive population of smokers to help pay its bills.

I don't smoke and I can't stand being in a smoky room, so I was glad to be in smoke-free pubs in the UK (although at a couple of places, there must have been so much smoking going on before the ban that I still left smelling like cigarettes ). We've had a smoking ban in New York for a few years, and although smokers might still disagree, I happen to love it.

[James.]

As a yoghurt-knitter myself, I don't give a **** what they think when it comes to knife carrying.

There's the problem.

[Daggers]

There's the problem.

Funny that - because I could've sworn the problem was them using knives and not whether I understand them or not.

[poynton blue]

I think the fact the country is in a shite state has more to do with knee-jerk, uneducated, naive, out-of-touch reactions from people like you.

Have you actually spoken to any of the young people committing these knife crimes? Do you really think locking them up for a couple of years will enhance society in the long run? Do you have any idea what these young people think?

It's brainless reactionary policies from MP's and the half-witted media obsessed public which does absolutely nothing to help matters. Speak to people involved in youth work, speak to charity workers, speak to outreach workers who actually go out into the communities and speak day to day about these issues.

It's a massive, complicated issue.

What do I think should be done?

I think there has to be more education at an early age. These kids need to understand the consequences of their crime, not in terms of jail sentences, but in terms of family devastation and the pain and anguish it causes. Right now they just don't care. I think a lot of them realise what they are doing is wrong, they know it's not "right" to carry a knife but they do it because of peer pressure and for protection.

There needs to be a focus on family and the specific cultural issues that affect certain groups of young males. More work has to be done on the ground, face to face. Not hiding behind a knife ban. The issue of drugs also needs to be thought about in more radical ways. The case for total legalisation is a strong one.

I'm sick of hearing MP's talking about getting tough. It's all bollocks. It won't work. They haven't got a clue. There is a big problem right now. Kids are getting killed in London at a worrying rate. It's just a shame that the people who know how to at the very least have a positive effect on the problem continue to go unheard.

Have not spoken to any of these young people,but this un-educated out of touch naive person lost a cousin 10 years ago to knife crime (in East london near you)

This un-educated naive out of touch person does no what effects it has on the familys.

This un-educated naive out of touch person does not want any more familys to go through what ours did,and wants extreme touch measures because nothing else is working

[James.]

Funny that - because I could've sworn the problem was them using knives and not whether I understand them or not.

Why do they use knives?

Have not spoken to any of these young people,but this un-educated out of touch naive person lost a cousin 10 years ago to knife crime (in East london near you)

This un-educated naive out of touch person does no what effects it has on the familys.

This un-educated naive out of touch person does not want any more familys to go through what ours did,and wants extreme touch measures because nothing else is working

Your stance now makes much more sense.

We basically want the same thing, but our approaches are coming from two very different perspectives.

[Webbo]

Do you have any idea what these young people think?

I went to school with kids who have been done for armed robbery, assault, burgulary. I have a fair opinion of what makes these people tick.They were bad bastards as kids, it wasn't a surprise to see them sent down.

Education won't help, these kids take a pride in their ignorance.

Throughout their lives they've had so many people trying to understand them and empathise that they actually believe they're not to blame, they think that they are entitled to behave how they like.

It's just a shame that the people who know how to at the very least have a positive effect on the problem continue to go unheard.

Who think they know how to have a positive effect. The fact is all these soft options have been tried in the past and are just as unsuccessful.

I agree with you it's a complicated issue but the old liberal solutions just don't work.

[James.]

I went to school with kids who have been done for armed robbery, assault, burgulary. I have a fair opinion of what makes these people tick.They were bad bastards as kids, it wasn't a surprise to see them sent down.

Education won't help, these kids take a pride in their ignorance.

Throughout their lives they've had so many people trying to understand them and empathise that they actually believe they're not to blame, they think that they are entitled to behave how they like.

Who think they know how to have a positive effect. The fact is all these soft options have been tried in the past and are just as unsuccessful.

I agree with you it's a complicated issue but the old liberal solutions just don't work.

It strikes me that you're looking at this as the same problem as it was years ago when you were at school. I think the problems nowadays, particularly in London, are driven by different factors and demand specific solutions.

The complication is that each individual responds differently to different deterrents. Harsh sentences may indeed work for the bad bastards nicking stuff at your school but that doesn't mean they will work for the kid defending himself on the street in South London.

I'm not saying the liberal approach is the definitive answer. I'm surprising myself with how liberal I'm seemingly being on here! But I do think that more investment, more time and more thought needs to be given to youth workers, outreach workers and subsequent policy approaches if we are to understand and as such deal with the problems.

[Dr The Singh]

It strikes me that you're looking at this as the same problem as it was years ago when you were at school. I think the problems nowadays, particularly in London, are driven by different factors and demand specific solutions.

The complication is that each individual responds differently to different deterrents. Harsh sentences may indeed work for the bad bastards nicking stuff at your school but that doesn't mean they will work for the kid defending himself on the street in South London.

I'm not saying the liberal approach is the definitive answer. I'm surprising myself with how liberal I'm seemingly being on here! But I do think that more investment, more time and more thought needs to be given to youth workers, outreach workers and subsequent policy approaches if we are to understand and as such deal with the problems.

Yep, gang culture is far different from thieving scumbag from the estate. London has a real gang problem it's a major fabric of there life, it's a spiralling circle which no-one seems to be able to change or stop!! Unfortunatelt the government has a tendancy to be reactive, it needs to research and not only find the cause but give those kids an alternative to there 'gang' related lifestyle

[Daggers]

Education won't help, these kids take a pride in their ignorance.

As an educator - I am in unequivocal agreement.

It strikes me that you're looking at this as the same problem as it was years ago when you were at school. I think the problems nowadays, particularly in London, are driven by different factors and demand specific solutions.

The complication is that each individual responds differently to different deterrents. Harsh sentences may indeed work for the bad bastards nicking stuff at your school but that doesn't mean they will work for the kid defending himself on the street in South London.

I'm not saying the liberal approach is the definitive answer. I'm surprising myself with how liberal I'm seemingly being on here! But I do think that more investment, more time and more thought needs to be given to youth workers, outreach workers and subsequent policy approaches if we are to understand and as such deal with the problems.

The problems may be driven by different factors to the ones of days gone by but the simple truth remains that more kids carry knives and more kids die because of knife-related injuries.

I taught for over 12 years James and am going back in September - at the expense of sounding pompous, I think I have a very good understanding of the motivation of a child to do this kind of thing...which makes no difference. The situation has become aggravated because people get away with things - if you allow girls to wear ear rings then you start having problems with girl wearing make-up. If you allow phones in school for emergency calls you end up having to deal with kids texting each other during class. You have to seal off the potential for things to go wrong at an early (and pedantic) stage.

Kids carry weapons because of the status it accords them, because they are in fear and because they need to create an impression in order to build their identity. Kids carry weapons because they can get away with it. Kids stab other kids because they can get away with it. This is a direct product of soft sentencing, a consequence of liberal attitudes to character reform. It has failed.

At some point these children need to be minded that the consequences of doing something exceptionally serious is something that they will regret for a very long time - not the promise of a game of pool in a brand new youth centre.

[billyfox1]

one year on i celebrate the anniversary of smoking on the unenclosed wet balcolny at the back of the office. A big puff of smoke has just accidentaly gone straight into a window of next doors office and a woman came and slammed the window shut. Surely this must have been bothering for a whole year. If i knew i would have just moved to the other end of the balcolny but because she seems so rude i'm going to make sure it happens more often.

[Trav Le Bleu]

I don't smoke and I don't go to the pub that often, unless I'm out in the country, in which case I'm usually in the beer garden (which ironically, will mean having to be within fumigation of the smokers! )

Like Daggers pointed out much earlier, pubs are closing for being soulless, expensive, franchised, mediocre, watering holes. One particular hate of mine is bars that play "background music" really loud. No one is listening to the music, it's just there for effect and there's certainly no dancefloor, and yet it drowns out any conversation. Kind of defeats the purpose of going out with your mates.

I'd much rather invite people round and everyone brings a few cans/bottles/kegs/distillaries. It's cheaper, there's no annoying dicks getting in the way and we get to play music we like (at a volume where conversation is still possible).

It is annoying however when someone turns up with Carling and drinks all your Abbey de Leffe

[Daggers]

It is annoying however when someone turns up with Carling and drinks all your Abbey de Leffe

Stab them.

[Dr The Singh]

Stab them.

With a cancer stick???