Lovejoy Posted 13 August 2008 Posted 13 August 2008 This thread is ridiculous.Look how many people have been sent home through failing drug tests. Phelps wouldn't have been able to compete, he would have been tested before the Olympics. He's just that good. Why can't people just give him the credit the guy deserves, instead of always looking for something bad to say about him. Annoys me when people are successful, yet others are all cynical and try to put a downer on everything. He's the most decorated Olympian in history, & the best swimmer of all time, & I for one, hope he gets his 8 gold medals. Fair play to him and well done on what he has achieved. It's an English problem, we just hate winners .
lildave3 Posted 13 August 2008 Posted 13 August 2008 It's an English problem, we just hate winners . Never a truer word spoken.
Smiffy Posted 13 August 2008 Posted 13 August 2008 This thread is ridiculous.Look how many people have been sent home through failing drug tests. Phelps wouldn't have been able to compete, he would have been tested before the Olympics. He's just that good. Why can't people just give him the credit the guy deserves, instead of always looking for something bad to say about him. Annoys me when people are successful, yet others are all cynical and try to put a downer on everything. He's the most decorated Olympian in history, & the best swimmer of all time, & I for one, hope he gets his 8 gold medals. Fair play to him and well done on what he has achieved. Its actually a little harder than that...every medal winner goes directly from the pool to be tested and they have to wait for results before they go to the podium. The only way he could possibly be doping is if its something that isn't banned yet.
Fox You Forest Posted 13 August 2008 Posted 13 August 2008 It's an English problem, we just hate winners . I would call it a Phube problem, As he is the only one who thinks anything of the sort. Apart from maybe Zingari who was on about different running styles.
Jordan Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 Given the prevalence of drugs in American sport, the possibility that Phelps' talents may not entirely be his own cannot be entirely discounted.It would certainly be a massive propaganda coup (like the one the Chinese tried to pull with that kid at the opening ceremony) if he picks up all eight of the gold medals (and world records!) he is aiming for. You're not far from the mark on both of those points. There's no doubt that Michael Phelps is performing a near-superhuman feat in Beijing and that there have been and are currently many top American athletes that have used performance-enhancing drugs. However, there is one caveat: in recent years, the American media has done extensive coverage about athletes using steroids, doping etc., and there's a pretty good market for the big news leak that would link Phelps to this. Fortunately, I believe he's clean as a whistle, and he'd better be because there would be a pretty big market for just one news leak that would link him to drugs. Most of the press coverage about steroids in sports began early this decade, at the end of a massive spike in home runs and total offense in Major League Baseball. Many (perhaps even most) baseball players were using steroids and the league turned a blind eye towards this as the rise in offense helped the league regain a lot of the popularity it lost after the 1994 players' strike. Many steroids, though illegal to own or sell under U.S. federal law, were either not banned by legaue rules or not tested. A lot of the dirt that led to the collapse and disgrace of one of the U.S.'s top steroid providers to athletes, Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative ("BALCO") was dug up by journalists. Many superstar athletes linked to BALCO have had their careers and reputations ruined or damaged. Tim Montgomery and Marion Jones have had serious legal troubles, including prison sentences, not to mention bans from track and field. Barry Bonds, both baseball's single-season and career home run kings, became perhaps the most hated athlete due to the mountains of evidence that shows he used steroids and his combative attitude (despite never failing a MLB drug test). Bonds is now facing a trial for perjury in a previous federal grand jury testimony. BALCO became such a big deal that the rest of the sports press immediately jumped all over this issue and even Congress investigated the matter to great publicity. Baseball has since become much stricter with drug testing and offensive production has dropped in recent seasons. In non-BALCO-related examples, cyclist Floyd Landis and Roger Clemens, perhaps the greatest baseball pitcher of his generation, have become national disgraces due to either failed drug tests or other evidence suggesting performance-enhancing drug use and their subsequent persistent denials in the face of all this. The Clemens case wound up becoming a media circus, even with his and his trainer's testimony to Congress broadcast live on ESPN. How does this relate to Michael Phelps? While many Americans might not want to believe our top athletes are "cheating," we are as a whole much more cynical about steroids and doping in sports than we were 10 years ago. American sports steroid scandals might be starting to lose their notoriety and Phelps is the current national feel-good story, but there isn't a sportswriter in the country that wouldn't jump on the chance to be the first to break news that Phelps is juicin'. I don't think Phelps is on steroids. While he's breaking records left and right, so are many other swimmers in Beijing due to swimsuit technology, sophisticated training and The Cube's pool construction (one American coach said that this pool is pretty much the perfect pool for racing). Phelps just happens to be the best swimmer at a time where conditions are ripe for very fast swimming. If Ian Thorpe had hit his prime in 2008 instead of '98-'02, he might be the one walking away with new world records. The only thing that would bring up any sort of suspicion for me (but tbh, it doesn't) is Phelps' ability to recover so quickly and post all these great times within two weeks (sometimes several in one day) because sophisticated steroid use with proper training can help reduce recovery times greatly. However, many top swimmers, sprinters, etc. race multiple times in these sorts of competitions and they're not racing such long distances.
Raj Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 To be fair,i saw an interview with 100m runner Asafa (Sp! )Powell of Jamaica. He was moaning about the amount of blood he's had to give already for drug testing. If Phelpsy was on owt they'd have got him. They said the same about Lancey Armstrong after he won all the Tour de Frances(After his cancer) and they never got owt. Sometimes you just have to say a guy is just superhuman and a legend.....abit like our Stevie Howard!!
lildave3 Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 To be fair,i saw an interview with 100m runner Asafa (Sp! )Powell of Jamaica.He was moaning about the amount of blood he's had to give already for drug testing. If Phelpsy was on owt they'd have got him. They said the same about Lancey Armstrong after he won all the Tour de Frances(After his cancer) and they never got owt. Sometimes you just have to say a guy is just superhuman and a legend.....abit like our Stevie Howard!! :D
Smiffy Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 You're not far from the mark on both of those points. There's no doubt that Michael Phelps is performing a near-superhuman feat in Beijing and that there have been and are currently many top American athletes that have used performance-enhancing drugs. However, there is one caveat: in recent years, the American media has done extensive coverage about athletes using steroids, doping etc., and there's a pretty good market for the big news leak that would link Phelps to this. Fortunately, I believe he's clean as a whistle, and he'd better be because there would be a pretty big market for just one news leak that would link him to drugs.Most of the press coverage about steroids in sports began early this decade, at the end of a massive spike in home runs and total offense in Major League Baseball. Many (perhaps even most) baseball players were using steroids and the league turned a blind eye towards this as the rise in offense helped the league regain a lot of the popularity it lost after the 1994 players' strike. Many steroids, though illegal to own or sell under U.S. federal law, were either not banned by legaue rules or not tested. A lot of the dirt that led to the collapse and disgrace of one of the U.S.'s top steroid providers to athletes, Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative ("BALCO") was dug up by journalists. Many superstar athletes linked to BALCO have had their careers and reputations ruined or damaged. Tim Montgomery and Marion Jones have had serious legal troubles, including prison sentences, not to mention bans from track and field. Barry Bonds, both baseball's single-season and career home run kings, became perhaps the most hated athlete due to the mountains of evidence that shows he used steroids and his combative attitude (despite never failing a MLB drug test). Bonds is now facing a trial for perjury in a previous federal grand jury testimony. BALCO became such a big deal that the rest of the sports press immediately jumped all over this issue and even Congress investigated the matter to great publicity. Baseball has since become much stricter with drug testing and offensive production has dropped in recent seasons. In non-BALCO-related examples, cyclist Floyd Landis and Roger Clemens, perhaps the greatest baseball pitcher of his generation, have become national disgraces due to either failed drug tests or other evidence suggesting performance-enhancing drug use and their subsequent persistent denials in the face of all this. The Clemens case wound up becoming a media circus, even with his and his trainer's testimony to Congress broadcast live on ESPN. How does this relate to Michael Phelps? While many Americans might not want to believe our top athletes are "cheating," we are as a whole much more cynical about steroids and doping in sports than we were 10 years ago. American sports steroid scandals might be starting to lose their notoriety and Phelps is the current national feel-good story, but there isn't a sportswriter in the country that wouldn't jump on the chance to be the first to break news that Phelps is juicin'. I don't think Phelps is on steroids. While he's breaking records left and right, so are many other swimmers in Beijing due to swimsuit technology, sophisticated training and The Cube's pool construction (one American coach said that this pool is pretty much the perfect pool for racing). Phelps just happens to be the best swimmer at a time where conditions are ripe for very fast swimming. If Ian Thorpe had hit his prime in 2008 instead of '98-'02, he might be the one walking away with new world records. The only thing that would bring up any sort of suspicion for me (but tbh, it doesn't) is Phelps' ability to recover so quickly and post all these great times within two weeks (sometimes several in one day) because sophisticated steroid use with proper training can help reduce recovery times greatly. However, many top swimmers, sprinters, etc. race multiple times in these sorts of competitions and they're not racing such long distances. This is what I heard...Its 1m deeper and thus produces less resistance, the lane barriers are newly designed to reduce water turbulance, they're using different chemicals to produce better water quality, and the full perimeter drainage system also reduces wake and turbulence. Its almost creating perfect conditions.
SOCCERROO FOX Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 Butterfly! How fudging pointless is that! Who would swim that way!!?? I LOVE BREASTSTROKE
Phube Posted 14 August 2008 Author Posted 14 August 2008 It's an English problem, we just hate winners . I don't have a problem with winners... but after soo many "great" athletes have been proven to be drug cheats... if some one is THAT much better that everyone... you can't help be tainted by the past!
Alexikokopops Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 I don't have a problem with winners... but after soo many "great" athletes have been proven to be drug cheats... if some one is THAT much better that everyone... you can't help be tainted by the past! But there are also many that haven't. Lance Armstrong, and the 49-games unbeaten Arsenal team spring to mind...
Master Fox Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 Really... no-one is that much better than EVERYONE!Is this another Ben Johnson, Marian Jones, Tour de France, Dwain Chambers etc. etc.! Maybe he just uses, so far, undetectable ones!? Or am I just a cynic!? Out of all the Drug cheats, Ben Johnson was my favourite.
ozleicester Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 I was school 100 metres backwards running champion in year 7 sad that we even have to think that Phelps is on drugs...much like Ian Thorpe in his heyday...just an out and out champion. But in the end this is the Olympics and is just all cynical bullshit.
The People's Hero Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 Given the prevalence of drugs in American sport, the possibility that Phelps' talents may not entirely be his own cannot be entirely discounted.It would certainly be a massive propaganda coup (like the one the Chinese tried to pull with that kid at the opening ceremony) if he picks up all eight of the gold medals (and world records!) he is aiming for. Inspector Ultra. 'He's better than the others - he must be on drugs'. This is the endemic bad attitude of GB which makes us awful losers and means we fail to understand the arrogance and determination which puts those at the top of the sport where they are. I'm not really all that surprised that a balding, overweight man can't understand how someone might swim so consistently well but that is simply down to his own inability to look beyond his own shortcomings!
Alexikokopops Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 Inspector Ultra.'He's better than the others - he must be on drugs'. This is the endemic bad attitude of GB which makes us awful losers and means we fail to understand the arrogance and determination which puts those at the top of the sport where they are. I'm not really all that surprised that a balding, overweight man can't understand how someone might swim so consistently well but that is simply down to his own inability to look beyond his own shortcomings! Why purposely quote Ultra? Why not Phube who started the thread? Ultra was just echoing the sentiments of many in here.
The People's Hero Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 Why purposely quote Ultra? Why not Phube who started the thread? Ultra was just echoing the sentiments of many in here. Cos Phube is alright.
James. Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 Why purposely quote Ultra? Haha. You know why. I agree with the sentiment of TPH's post though, if not the way it was delivered. He's just a phenomenal swimmer. I'm surprised Jordan hasn't come on here to leap to his defence. If I was a Yank I certainly would have.
The People's Hero Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 Haha. You know why.I agree with the sentiment of TPH's post though, if not the way it was delivered. He's just a phenomenal swimmer. I'm surprised Jordan hasn't come on here to leap to his defence. If I was a Yank I certainly would have. Vindicated.
Jordan Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 He's just a phenomenal swimmer. I'm surprised Jordan hasn't come on here to leap to his defence. If I was a Yank I certainly would have. I did, in a way ... but I spent most of my rant using other things besides just Phelps b/c really, there's not much to write about re: Phelps and roids. Also, Phelps eats like a fat college kid, always at the diner or eating pizza all day. While top athletes all eat plenty, most juicers are fitness freaks in all aspects of life and have strict dietary requirements.
Phube Posted 14 August 2008 Author Posted 14 August 2008 But none of you know for DEFINITE!!! No one can!
The People's Hero Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 But none of you know for DEFINITE!!! No one can! Well, none of us know for definite, but in my opinion, exceptional performance from a known exceptional performer are hardly grounds for speculation like this. There you go lads, I called Phube too!
Zingari Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 am i the only one who thinks that there are far too many medals dished out for swimming you don't get medals in athletics for different styles of running brendan gallagher from the telegraph talking sense about too many Olympic medals in swimming michael johnson also said as much on tv last night as well http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/brendan_galla...ght_gold_medals
The People's Hero Posted 14 August 2008 Posted 14 August 2008 brendan gallagher from the telegraph talking sense about too many Olympic medals in swimming michael johnson also said as much on tv last night as well http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/brendan_galla...ght_gold_medals They should be able to swim however they want and it's a race to the other end. Also, the pool is full of sharks, piranhiiii and box jellyfish. Oh and there is a guy firing tennis balls, like that event in Gladiators.
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