FAO BNP Voters (And BNP Haters)

[maddog]

Got a few BNP leaflets through the door and it all sounds so right, yet so wrong.

I can see why people would vote for them though, they get brainwashed by the leaflet.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

Oh Dear.

What a moron you are, do you have any idea what kind of a deluded fool Enoch Powell was?

[Bono from U2]

Got a few BNP leaflets through the door and it all sounds so right, yet so wrong.

I can see why people would vote for them though, they get brainwashed by the leaflet.

Buy my latest album

Can you be brainwashed by a leaflet?

Buy my latest album

[lou]

Got a few BNP leaflets through the door and it all sounds so right, yet so wrong.

I can see why people would vote for them though, they get brainwashed by the leaflet.

They have very cleverly marketed themselves this time around and papered over most of their more extreme views. Anyone with a modicum of sense knows exactly what they really are though.

[lou]

What a moron you are, do you have any idea what kind of a deluded fool Enoch Powell was?

Of course he doesnt, hes 16 and only knows what his bigotted Father has told him. I feel genuinely sorry for him

[Red Leicester]

I have a curious urge to buy a U2 album...it's almost like I've been brainwashed.

[lou]

Buy my latest album

Can you be brainwashed by a leaflet?

Buy my latest album

Once they had found someone who can read to tell them what it says they did. Then went and voted BNP

[coale39]

The recent banking crisis doesn't necessarily suggest that businesses are employing the best and if Harriet Harman has her way they'll all be changed soon to women bankers anyway - whether from here or abroad.

I would say that the banking crisis is more due to lack of regulation.

And just out of curiosity, if there's no problem with immigration (despite the claimed financial benefits being exposed last week as nonsense) what would you do about the 2.3 million (and rising) who are currently out of work if they are exposed to yet more competition for a still diminishing number of jobs?

I don't think their is a problem with low amounts of immigration. Something like Australia's system where people with the right skills that are needed are allowed in to the economy can only be of benefit. IMO, immigration should benefit both parties, including the country. Obv also in certain circumstances such as refugee's etc.

[maddog]

Maybe brainwashed is the wrong word

But the leaflet does sound to good to be true, and some people will be convinced to vote BNP after reading it. They just sound better than all the other parties on the leaflet.

They will never ever get into power though, if they ever did then we are all doomed, the whole world would want to blow us up if they did.

[Flynny]

I'm "incredible"?

Years of misguided socialist dogma have brought us to the point where it is not even considered safe for us to pick fruit and you act surprised that our indigenous population is failing to compete, cos that's what it amounts to.

And that is what the people of this country will have to do to restore their self-worth and their confidence and they won't do it while any vestige of modern-brand socialism remains.

This country is beholden to the insurers. There are myriad problems even before a schoolmaster can take his class out for a week's adventuring nowadays.

British kids are told it might be psychologically damaging for them to practice anything for more than an hour a day when any sane person knows it takes far more than an hour a day to be any good at anything.

For years competition has been stifled in schools and then you wonder why immigrants come in with greater skills and greater determination and step in to do our available jobs better than we do. If that's not a condemnation of long term labour government I don't know what is.

I have never said or thought that incomers "steal" our jobs. The opportunities are presented to them and they take due advantage. Individually I don't blame them at all but that doesn't help occupy our indigenous population, quite the contrary.

I have no animosity towards ethnic workers whatsoever whether they be Poles, Czechs, Nigerians, Indians or whatever. I simply see no benefit in bringing more people in to work when approaching 3m people already here (and all plainly not retired) don't have a job and are costing this country a fortune.

You suggest that those 3m don't work because they won't work and in some cases you may be right. It might also be that some don't see much point because their welfare payments plus whatever moonlighting they can do means they'll be no worse off in employment anyway.

How casually you say that the indigenous people find working in factories "demeaning".

Those employees returning to their shift work at Honda didn't convey the impression that they found their work demeaning - more that they were glad to get back doing something useful with their mates. But I don't say you're entirely wrong.

However I believe that reactions like that, even when true, can be easily changed. Hell the socialists just love manipulating people's thinking. It wouldn't even be a challenge were the will there.

It is only the emphasis we give to class consciousness which even allows thoughts that some jobs are demeaning to fester.

That and the availability of welfare which is fine when it is desperately and unavoidably needed but should never be a substitute for work. Indeed, there should be no encouragement, financially or socially, for it to be so.

As for the lack of skills/intelligence you mention are you honestly saying we are unable to run an education system which not only provides the intelligence and skills necessary for our people to be useful but also te desire to use those skills?

This country used to abound with skilled workers. Apprenticeships lasted seven hard years. Pride in the job was ingrained just like the idea of competing was an everyday part of school life. Not standing aside and being walked over.

You extol the virtues of foreign workers but what you're really doing is condemning the system by which we as a nation cannot properly look after ourselves and do our own jobs.

I think the problem here is that you're blaming everything on 'socialism'. I don't think that's the case. Deep down these problems are social, not economic. Social mobility is higher than ever before now, but still an disenfranchised underclass locked into a cycle of poor parenting and poor education persists. How do you solve that? How do you ensure kids with parents who don't give two shits about whether or not they go to school or give handjobs for extra pocket money or whatever are allowed to fulfil their potential rather than becoming exactly the same 10 years down the line except with two kids themselves?

How do you sort that out without over-burdening an education system where teachers are already being asked to be parent, social worker and teacher all at once? How do you do that without partially abandoning the Welfare State, which although seeming sensible at first, would leave many of the deserving poor in the lurch and drive people to lives of crime?

[MC Prussian]

Here's my two pennies to the matter:

Generally speaking, parties like the BNP prey on people's sorrows, fears and misfortunes. They claim to know the truth, make easy and swift accusations and come up with culprits rather easily. It is true, this doesn't stop at the BNP's door, it's a general issue with politics. And this strategy often works best in times of trouble, economic failures and job losses like the one we're experiencing right now. I could say that that's the way economy works and there will always be - it's a cycle and the same goes for parties like the BNP. They come and they go.

What I renounce, however, is how easily spoonfed certain people can be and how little they reflect on or criticise about their own misbehaviour. If you're a responsible adult, parent, worker, partner then you do care. You care about yourself and beyond. You have an interest in social occurrences and remain open-minded. And, above all, you care about work and education because you want to work and you want to be educated. However, the class system still means that there are hundreds of thousands of passive people in each single country that are ill-informed, undereducated and/or clearly not motivated to start working or finding a way out of their own personal misery. Moaning is easy and so effortless, isn't it?

What I meant to say in regards to Finners' argument with Thracian is that I found it unnecessary wanting to change others and their social, cultural, political or religious beliefs. You can only make your own point, lead a good life and go from there. I don't have to convince others of my opinion, but I do retain the right to have one. And as wrong as some conservative or right-wing statements and people even may be (to me), their opinion is as valuable as mine. In an ideal world, yes, everyone would think like me. Wait a second... that'd be pretty much a nightmare. Where would the spice of life be?

In the end, leave the BNP where it is. All you can do is work on a society that works for everyone and be a friend to foreigners and home-growns alike. People will smarten up and there are still enough clever people around not to fall for messages of fear and hatred. It's also often a question of generations, as the fears of the elderly population clearly deviate from young students', for instance. Parties like the BNP will always have a following, but you as part of a liberal and open-minded society (on paper) decide how much you want to believe.

There has always been a foreign influence and influx all across the globe. The British have a mixed heritage of Celts, Romans, Scandinavians and even Alemannic and whatnot. To deny current "foreigners" the right to work and to benefit from the British system is like a shot to your own foot.

[Guest]

I'm "incredible"?

Years of misguided socialist dogma have brought us to the point where it is not even considered safe for us to pick fruit and you act surprised that our indigenous population is failing to compete, cos that's what it amounts to.

And that is what the people of this country will have to do to restore their self-worth and their confidence and they won't do it while any vestige of modern-brand socialism remains.

This country is beholden to the insurers. There are myriad problems even before a schoolmaster can take his class out for a week's adventuring nowadays.

British kids are told it might be psychologically damaging for them to practice anything for more than an hour a day when any sane person knows it takes far more than an hour a day to be any good at anything.

For years competition has been stifled in schools and then you wonder why immigrants come in with greater skills and greater determination and step in to do our available jobs better than we do. If that's not a condemnation of long term labour government I don't know what is.

I have never said or thought that incomers "steal" our jobs. The opportunities are presented to them and they take due advantage. Individually I don't blame them at all but that doesn't help occupy our indigenous population, quite the contrary.

I have no animosity towards ethnic workers whatsoever whether they be Poles, Czechs, Nigerians, Indians or whatever. I simply see no benefit in bringing more people in to work when approaching 3m people already here (and all plainly not retired) don't have a job and are costing this country a fortune.

You suggest that those 3m don't work because they won't work and in some cases you may be right. It might also be that some don't see much point because their welfare payments plus whatever moonlighting they can do means they'll be no worse off in employment anyway.

How casually you say that the indigenous people find working in factories "demeaning".

Those employees returning to their shift work at Honda didn't convey the impression that they found their work demeaning - more that they were glad to get back doing something useful with their mates. But I don't say you're entirely wrong.

However I believe that reactions like that, even when true, can be easily changed. Hell the socialists just love manipulating people's thinking. It wouldn't even be a challenge were the will there.

It is only the emphasis we give to class consciousness which even allows thoughts that some jobs are demeaning to fester.

That and the availability of welfare which is fine when it is desperately and unavoidably needed but should never be a substitute for work. Indeed, there should be no encouragement, financially or socially, for it to be so.

As for the lack of skills/intelligence you mention are you honestly saying we are unable to run an education system which not only provides the intelligence and skills necessary for our people to be useful but also te desire to use those skills?

This country used to abound with skilled workers. Apprenticeships lasted seven hard years. Pride in the job was ingrained just like the idea of competing was an everyday part of school life. Not standing aside and being walked over.

You extol the virtues of foreign workers but what you're really doing is condemning the system by which we as a nation cannot properly look after ourselves and do our own jobs.

If we aren't competitive, why are more young people going to university?

Foreign workers only come in and do the jobs that employers cannot fill from within the local community. You seem to want to ignore this, and go off on a rant about something tenuously linked to the discussion.

You call Labour racists because organisations try to actively recruit from groups that are under-represented. The police example that you keep referring to, well, the police are disproportionately white and male when compared to the overall population, let alone a conurbation that has a higher ratio of ethnic minorities. The police are seen as inherently racist, and are seen to target the black community. How do you suggest this is changed? And of course this is all based on the assumption that the constabulary can find enough female or black or asian applicants to fulfil this desired quota. If they don't, do you really think that they will stop taking on white males? I don't.

[Edmund]

They have very cleverly marketed themselves this time around and papered over most of their more extreme views. Anyone with a modicum of sense knows exactly what they really are though.

Yep last night was an eye opener for me. I asked a good mate of mine if he voted and he said no but if he did he would have voted bnp. I said to him you do realise that your voting for a party that would give me "financial incentives" to leave the country even though im born and bred in this country but based on my skin colour and mums origin not welcome.

When I asked why he would vote for the bnp I got the same usual reply "Stop the foreigners taking our jobs". He wasn't even aware of there other policies and when I tried to explain them to him, I was made out to be some crazy bastard because he didn't think the bnp are racist.

The point im trying to make is, he is not racist in the slightest yet still feels it's fine to vote bnp. I don't blame him at all it's just naivety and all this immigration nonsense is like chinese whispers.

Like others have mentioned, Poiltics needs to be made compulsory in schools.

It's almost fashionable among some people to like bnp and hate immigrants.

[lou]

Yep last night was an eye opener for me. I asked a good mate of mine if he voted and he said no but if he did he would have voted bnp. I said to him you do realise that your voting for a party that would give me "financial incentives" to leave the country even though im born and bred in this country but based on my skin colour and mums origin not welcome.

When I asked why he would vote for the bnp I got the same usual reply "Stop the foreigners taking our jobs". He wasn't even aware of there other policies and when I tried to explain them to him, I was made out to be some crazy bastard because he didn't think the bnp are racist.

The point im trying to make is, he is not racist in the slightest yet still feels it's fine to vote bnp. I don't blame him at all it's just naivety and all this immigration nonsense is like chinese whispers.

Like others have mentioned, Poiltics needs to be made compulsory in schools.

It's almost fashionable among some people to like bnp and hate immigrants.

I think most young people get their political views from their parents. I know my Parents would have put any of the 3 of us through the nearest window if we had ever uttered a racist remark in their house. Weve all been bought up to respect others regardless of their colour/religion etc and get to know the real person before forming an opinion on them. Ive met plenty of Black and Asian people I didnt like but its not been because of what skin colour they are or what God they worship. My kids have been bought up with the same values, I couldnt care less if they settle down with black or white partners as long as they are happy. They have been bought up to be proud of their black heritage AND their white heritage. They all have friends of all races and always have done.

[Thracian]

If we aren't competitive, why are more young people going to university?

Foreign workers only come in and do the jobs that employers cannot fill from within the local community. You seem to want to ignore this, and go off on a rant about something tenuously linked to the discussion.

You call Labour racists because organisations try to actively recruit from groups that are under-represented. The police example that you keep referring to, well, the police are disproportionately white and male when compared to the overall population, let alone a conurbation that has a higher ratio of ethnic minorities. The police are seen as inherently racist, and are seen to target the black community. How do you suggest this is changed? And of course this is all based on the assumption that the constabulary can find enough female or black or asian applicants to fulfil this desired quota. If they don't, do you really think that they will stop taking on white males? I don't.

Labour are racist. Demonstrably. Just because they say a group is unrepresented doesn't make their "positive discrimination" any less racist against the group displaced, in this country the indigenous white population.

The whole concept is a nonsense anyway. Either people are employed on merit or they are employed in a discriminatory way. And right now both anti-white and anti age discrimination is rife.

[Finnegan]

As expected, not one word denouncing Labour's blatant racism

Because, as always, it was ridiculously off topic and about the seven millionth time you've tried to bring it up in a thread that was otherwise unrelated but for the fact that politics was being loosely discussed.

And for the record I'm not a Labour supporter, so can we please get over this? In the last general election (my first) I voted Lib Dem.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

If we aren't competitive, why are more young people going to university?

Foreign workers only come in and do the jobs that employers cannot fill from within the local community. You seem to want to ignore this, and go off on a rant about something tenuously linked to the discussion.

You call Labour racists because organisations try to actively recruit from groups that are under-represented. The police example that you keep referring to, well, the police are disproportionately white and male when compared to the overall population, let alone a conurbation that has a higher ratio of ethnic minorities. The police are seen as inherently racist, and are seen to target the black community. How do you suggest this is changed? And of course this is all based on the assumption that the constabulary can find enough female or black or asian applicants to fulfil this desired quota. If they don't, do you really think that they will stop taking on white males? I don't.

[C-man]

Oh Dear.

Oh dear fucking what? Why can you not get it into your head that everyone is equal? Oh wait, it's because you're a nasty bigot cunt. If they fit the job better and are willing to do it for less pay than so what, thats your problem, get a better education, look elsewhere or accept lower pay.

Let me remind you of your points. (Although I don't believe for one second that you're prejudice is actually concern for the economy. Am I right in saying you're the one who didn't want any mosques being built?)

Well I'll vote Tory anyway but BNP are quite appealing because:

I'm 16 who is currently taking his GCSE exams and has chosen A-levels.

When I leave full time education I will need a job.

Because of the recession unemployment is high and jobs are few and far between with dozens applying for the same job.

Because of vast immigration there are hardly no jobs available.

BNP will oppose immigration.

= More jobs available for teens like me when we need them.

You clearly have the most limited understanding of UK and International economics so I won't even bother to explain why your points are complete bullshit and why it doesn't work like your incredibly simple mind believes it does.

Have fun being unemployed.

[Guest]

Labour are racist. Demonstrably. Just because they say a group is unrepresented doesn't make their "positive discrimination" any less racist against the group displaced, in this country the indigenous white population.

The whole concept is a nonsense anyway. Either people are employed on merit or they are employed in a discriminatory way. And right now both anti-white and anti age discrimination is rife.

Bollocks is it. Knee-jerk over-reaction.

[Edmund]

I think most young people get their political views from their parents.

Very true, parents have a massive influence but I think it doesn't stop there. Places like the pub are the breeding ground for these silly views and people are very influenced by what a mate tells them.

[Thracian]

a) If we aren't competitive, why are more young people going to university?

b) Foreign workers only come in and do the jobs that employers cannot fill from within the local community. You seem to want to ignore this, and go off on a rant about something tenuously linked to the discussion.

c) You call Labour racists because organisations try to actively recruit from groups that are under-represented. The police example that you keep referring to, well, the police are disproportionately white and male when compared to the overall population, let alone a conurbation that has a higher ratio of ethnic minorities. The police are seen as inherently racist, and are seen to target the black community. How do you suggest this is changed? And of course this is all based on the assumption that the constabulary can find enough female or black or asian applicants to fulfil this desired quota. If they don't, do you really think that they will stop taking on white males? I don't.

a) But according to this far too many students lack what it takes to even complete their courses. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4270044.stm

b) I don't ignore it at all and if foreigners were only taken on because employeers couldn't find an indigenous worker to fill the post then there wouldn't be need for government ethnic quota recommendations or directives because there wouldn't be any indigenous applicants for those jobs.

I see no reason why work cannot be made a more attractive option than benefits, why the mentality of getting something for nothing shouldn't be addressed and why the 2.3 million jobless shouldn't be properly trained and educated to make themselves properly useful.

You are the one who chooses to ignore things - particularly the folly of bringing more people into a country which already has 2.3 million unemployed and increasinly unmotivated.

c) Already explained elsewhere but to repeat, positive discrimination in favour of one group, whether under-represented or not, doesn't avoid the discrimination (negative) against the white indigenous male or, indeed, any other "victim" whether they be old, spectacle wearing, able bodied or whatever. Discrimination is discrimination however you colour it and you cannot have equality while there is discrimination.

You said yourself that companies even 15 years ago took in a wide mixture of employees without any of the need for"positive discrimination" nonsense. That's because they were naturally absorbed instead of being politically and discriminationally absorbed as the only means of coping with such an abnormal incidence of immigration as we've had over recent years.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

c) Already explained elsewhere but to repeat, positive discrimination in favour of one group, whether under-represented or not, doesn't avoid the discrimination (negative) against the white indigenous male or, indeed, any other "victim" whether they be old, spectacle wearing, able bodied or whatever. Discrimination is discrimination however you colour it and you cannot have equality while there is discrimination.

You have made this point about 900 times so there is definitely no need to repeat it.

[Thracian]

And for the record I'm not a Labour supporter, so can we please get over this? In the last general election (my first) I voted Lib Dem.

They always seem fairly natural soul-mates to me. And if Aneurin Bevan were in charge of the Labour Party I still think you'd vote Labour. You just find it hard to associate yourself with this bunch of losers but I think your instinctive defence of all things socialist is deeply ingrained, though apologies if I'm mistaken.

[dandannieldanok]

Interesting to see Loughborough still pulling in Labour voters.

Tbf there were only 3 parties on the ballot paper in Syston Labour , Tory and BNP. The BNP only beat Labour which says more about their unpopularity than the BNP's popularity.

I think you must be on the other side of Syston mate, in our half we had a Lib Dem candidate aswell.

[Thracian]

Bollocks is it. Knee-jerk over-reaction.

As ever, we disagree.