FAO BNP Voters (And BNP Haters)

[breadandcheese]

I think the problem here is that you're blaming everything on 'socialism'. I don't think that's the case. Deep down these problems are social, not economic. Social mobility is higher than ever before now, but still an disenfranchised underclass locked into a cycle of poor parenting and poor education persists. How do you solve that? How do you ensure kids with parents who don't give two shits about whether or not they go to school or give handjobs for extra pocket money or whatever are allowed to fulfil their potential rather than becoming exactly the same 10 years down the line except with two kids themselves?

How do you sort that out without over-burdening an education system where teachers are already being asked to be parent, social worker and teacher all at once? How do you do that without partially abandoning the Welfare State, which although seeming sensible at first, would leave many of the deserving poor in the lurch and drive people to lives of crime?

This is not a thread on the topic of questioning socialism, but I think social mobility has actually fallen over the past few years. I would say this is primarily because of the education system failing to distinguish between candidates in the way it did in the past.

Ironically, everything you hate, Maggie Thatcher, did more for social mobility than any other government over the past 50 years. She opened up areas of banking, home ownership, finance provision to far more of the country than any other government. This is conservatism.

[Edmund]

Quite the contrary in many ways such as the fitness, speed and girth of so many Africans and Afro-Americans

A fan of Claude Makalele are we

[Thracian]

And how on earth do you propose to tackle that? That is an ingrained social and cultural view, and I have no idea how you would attempt to change it.

Changing public attitudes is quite easy if enough effort is put into it and there have been numerous examples in recent years. In fact political correctness has almost become an industry.

Look how everyone is is involved in recylcing now. By combining new systems with persuasive arguments everyone has embraced recycling.

Look at how many cyclists wear those silly-looking helmets. As a child I never dreamed of wearing one but people's minds have been changed to believe that only an idiot would go out on the road without one. Same as a seat belt.

We are brainwashed on a daily basis either for good or ill.

Making people believe that sweeping streets, emptying dustbins or washing up in hotels is really quite important or even vital to the health of our country would be no problem. Especially as they are all jobs that should be properly appreciated and reasonably rewarded anyway.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

Changing public attitudes is quite easy if enough effort is put into it and there have been numerous examples in recent years. In fact political correctness has almost become an industry.

Look how everyone is is involved in recylcing now. By combining new systems with persuasive arguments everyone has embraced recycling.

Look at how many cyclists wear those silly-looking helmets. As a child I never dreamed of wearing one but people's minds have been changed to believe that only an idiot would go out on the road without one. Same as a seat belt.

We are brainwashed on a daily basis either for good or ill.

Making people believe that sweeping streets, emptying dustbins or washing up in hotels is really quite important or even vital to the health of our country would be no problem. Especially as they are all jobs that should be properly appreciated and reasonably rewarded anyway.

I'd love to see you try it, the difference between changing attitudes on jobs and making people recycle is massive. Recycling is a relatively new phenomenon and doesn't have any history, you suggest to someone that they could be emptying dustbins and then will consider themselves the equivalent of a victorian chimney sweep. There's a whole issue of respect and street credibility that goes with jobs, and this has been the case of hundreds of years, and i don't think simply brainwashing will change that. I don't think you understand the scale of the issue here.

[Thracian]

It's our governments responsibility to look after the country not our race, Are you therefore suggesting that we should not have people of Ethnic backgrounds in parliament as they are not part of our indigenous populationand the primary aim of the government is to look after white British people? I certainly don't agree with that.

When have I ever suggested any of those things?

When I say it is a government's job to look after its people I have never at any time brought race into it. What practical point would there possibly be?

I'm not sure we have ever had a nation of "white British people" anyway.

As far as I recall many of the various British tribes got subjected by the Romans or pushed into Wales and the west and then there were Normans, Angles, Saxons, Vikings and doubtless a good many others as would always befit a trading nation.

Now our nation includes West Indians, Indians, Africans, Australasians, Orientals you name it. And our Government is responsible for doing right by all of them economically, socially, culturally, educationally and in so many other ways.

All the above have every right to stand for Parliament but my complaint has nothing to do with any of them anyway.

It has to do with the process by which white people, particular white (supposedly) working class people, have systematically been treated like second class citizens by New Labour.

Unfortunately when I scanned my list of democratic voting options last week I didn't see anyone who would represent my views and change that. So I didn't vote because my vote would have been hypocritical.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Yes the BNP would have worked to make white people feel valued again. But only by mistreating and devaluing others. How can that be right? It wasn't right for the whites (despite the fact that so many on here chose to ignore that it has even happened) and I'm equally sure it's not right for anyone else.

When someone comes along who advocates a genuine rather than contrived equality and respect for all people (together with a few other things) then I'll vote for them.

[Zingari]

I'd vote for Thracian and Webbo

[Finnegan]

I'd vote for Thracian and Webbo

Old right-wing crackpots generally stick together.

[Zingari]

Old right-wing crackpots generally stick together.

very true , and we should jolly well learn to realise how well the country has been run

[Thracian]

I'd love to see you try it, the difference between changing attitudes on jobs and making people recycle is massive. Recycling is a relatively new phenomenon and doesn't have any history, you suggest to someone that they could be emptying dustbins and then will consider themselves the equivalent of a victorian chimney sweep. There's a whole issue of respect and street credibility that goes with jobs, and this has been the case of hundreds of years, and i don't think simply brainwashing will change that. I don't think you understand the scale of the issue here.

Do you honestly believe you would (or should) lose respect or street cred because you emptied dustbins?

I respect people for what they are not what they do.

Leave those dustbins to fester for a month and see how loudly you'd be pleading for someone to clear them.

A hard-working and conscientious dustman deserves the same respect I'd give a a teacher, lawyer or accountant.

And probably a lot more than I'd give to various bankers and a couple of hundred self-serving politicians.

Getting that message across via the media would not be especially difficult.

In fact a major respect campaign might do a great deal of good for the social standing of any number of manual workers and not before time.

[Zingari]

Do you honestly believe you would (or should) lose respect or street cred because you emptied dustbins?

I respect people for what they are not what they do.

Leave those dustbins to fester for a month and see how loudly you'd be pleading for someone to clear them.

A hard-working and conscientious dustman deserves the same respect I'd give a a teacher, lawyer or accountant.

And probably a lot more than I'd give to various bankers and a couple of hundred self-serving politicians.

Getting that message across via the media would not be especially difficult.

In fact a major respect campaign might do a great deal of good for the social standing of any number of manual workers and not before time.

you really do have some extreme right wing fascist views

p.s. i am joking

[Ultra]

Unfortunately when I scanned my list of democratic voting options last week I didn't see anyone who would represent my views and change that. So I didn't vote because my vote would have been hypocritical.

So, like Daggers, you talk (and write) a lot about politics but but do NOTHING of any practical value.

With THIRTEEN parties on the ballot paper, covering most shades of the political spectrum, I'd have thought you'd have found at least one catering for your particular tastes.

Instead you continue on an endless quest to find the perfect party. Well guess what? It doesn't exist.

I don't pretend that every policy of the present government is wonderful. Indeed, where I disagree with them, I'll say so, on here on elsewhere.

But the governing party remains the most likely to recognise and address the needs of the communities it serves (which isn't the same as saying it's always done so). I've seen the activities of the Tories and LibDems in office. They haven't been impressive.

A number of community projects in my ward have received support, both practical and financial, from the City Council. They provide social activities for local residents, improve their health and well-being and also (as police have acknowlwdged at both local and national level) substantially reduce levels of youth crime.

It was the actions of the local Labour Councillors who allowed this to continue, by persuading colleagues to make the necessary resources available. Other parties may well have deemed these projects to be "uneconomic".

This is just one example of how voting can and make a difference. Yet you, Daggers and others give no recognition to the difference that dedicated elected representatives (at all levels) can make to the areas that they serve.

[Mort]

But the governing party [Labour] remains the most likely to recognise and address the needs of the communities it serves ...

I'd take issue with that...

[Shrenchel]

I'm sure Labour do some decent work at Council level. Problem being though, a vote in local Council elections is generally seen as endorsement for the party as whole too. It aint Labour Councillors fault that the Government has implemented and continues to pursue disgustingly authoritarian policies, ripped off the taxpayer and generally been a complete shambles but they have to accept it's bound to affect the amount of votes they receive.

[Flynny]

I don't pretend that every policy of the present government is wonderful. Indeed, where I disagree with them, I'll say so, on here on elsewhere.

In all honesty I don't remember you criticising a single policy of the Labour party or government. Ever. You're the most partisan person on here by a mile in my eyes.

Ironically, everything you hate, Maggie Thatcher, did more for social mobility than any other government over the past 50 years. She opened up areas of banking, home ownership, finance provision to far more of the country than any other government. This is conservatism.

Are people confusing me and Finners or something?

[C-man]

Are people confusing me and Finners or something?

You are practically the same person.

[Daggers]

So, like Daggers, you talk (and write) a lot about politics but but do NOTHING of any practical value.

Yea, Heap Big Keyboardwarrior spouts more crap.

You micro-brained friend of streetwalkers. What do you know about me, my life and what I do or not do? Amazingly, as your quoted post more than adequately proves, you know as much about me as you do politics, sex and inter-personal relationships.

You exist in this world where you never raise your voice above a mild whisper, mumbling into your real ale and sucking the arse of the great and the good of the Labour party. And then you posture like a big grown up in the privacy of your bedroom. You call that doing something practical? Almost as laughable as your political party.

[AoWW]

Yea, Heap Big Keyboardwarrior spouts more crap.

You micro-brained friend of streetwalkers. What do you know about me, my life and what I do or not do? Amazingly, as your quoted post more than adequately proves, you know as much about me as you do politics, sex and inter-personal relationships.

You exist in this world where you never raise your voice above a mild whisper, mumbling into your real ale and sucking the arse of the great and the good of the Labour party. And then you posture like a big grown up in the privacy of your bedroom. You call that doing something practical? Almost as laughable as your political party.

You'll be arguing with Red Leicester and calling him a cunt next.

[Daggers]

You'll be arguing with Blaby Fox and calling him a cunt next.

As if I'd use words like that to describe that pubeless, racist twat.

[Daggers]

Quite the contrary in many ways such as the fitness, speed and strength of so many Africans and Afro-Americans or the language skills of so many Asians and mainland Europeans to give but two examples.

Oh dear - we're doing that racial stereotyping thing again aren't we.

[AoWW]

Bloody immigrants. They better not have been eating 'our' fish stocks.

Oh, and I am joking, before someone has a pop!

[Thracian]

So, like Daggers, you talk (and write) a lot about politics but but do NOTHING of any practical value.

With THIRTEEN parties on the ballot paper, covering most shades of the political spectrum, I'd have thought you'd have found at least one catering for your particular tastes.

Instead you continue on an endless quest to find the perfect party. Well guess what? It doesn't exist.

I don't pretend that every policy of the present government is wonderful. Indeed, where I disagree with them, I'll say so, on here on elsewhere.

But the governing party remains the most likely to recognise and address the needs of the communities it serves (which isn't the same as saying it's always done so). I've seen the activities of the Tories and LibDems in office. They haven't been impressive.

A number of community projects in my ward have received support, both practical and financial, from the City Council. They provide social activities for local residents, improve their health and well-being and also (as police have acknowlwdged at both local and national level) substantially reduce levels of youth crime.

It was the actions of the local Labour Councillors who allowed this to continue, by persuading colleagues to make the necessary resources available. Other parties may well have deemed these projects to be "uneconomic".

This is just one example of how voting can and make a difference. Yet you, Daggers and others give no recognition to the difference that dedicated elected representatives (at all levels) can make to the areas that they serve.

Nothing of any practical value? What do you know about any contribution I might make to the local community?. I certainly don't have to vote for some local politician to "make a difference" however small.

I've never been a big fan of the way our democratic system is set up and doing things that I choose to do, and in my own way, is much more suited to my nature than voting for someone I don't really want to vote for.

Labour wouldn't have missed my vote anyway cos they wouldn't have got it. And if they had it wouldn't have done them any good cos they had no chance on my block.

That's not to dismiss the work of local councillors. Some do make a worthwhile contribution. I just don't see anyone in our area as representing me and, in truth, with the situation as it is, I'd rather represent myself. Indeed I rather wish our councils were made up of people who represented themselves rather than the dictates of some party.

[Thracian]

Bloody immigrants. They better not have been eating 'our' fish stocks.

Oh, and I am joking, before someone has a pop!

What's this? Swan Lestas revival?

[Guest Bilo]

The Nasty Party

On the morning of 25 February the Conservative Party announced the tragic news that Ivan Cameron, the six-year-old son of Conservative Party leader David Cameron and his wife Samantha, who suffered from cerebral palsy and epilepsy, had died. In a rare show of unity figures from across the political spectrum united to send their condolences and best wishes to the heartbroken family.

Not so the British National Party. True, the BNP website carried a brief statement from Nick Griffin expressing his sympathy in an attempt to portray himself as a statesman and the BNP as a “normal” political party.

This ruse failed to disguise the fact that the Camerons had not even had the chance to bury their “beautiful boy” before certain BNP members were displaying their true colours.

In a cruel and warped outburst against those who had expressed their condolences at the death of Ivan Cameron, Jeff Marshall (pictured), the central London BNP organiser, who lives in Whitechapel, wrote: “We live in a country today which is unhealthily dominated by an excess of sentimentality towards the weak and unproductive. No good will come of it.”

Not content with attacking those mourning the death of a severely disabled child who brought “joy and love to those around him”, Marshall continued in his sick tirade, stating that although it would be “a kindness” to kill children with disabilities, this was not the same as advocating such a measure as compulsory state policy. “But so what if it is,” he asked. “At least we would all know where we stand. There is actually not a great deal of point in keeping these sort of people alive, after all.”

Marshall’s disturbing and repellent views recall those of Tony Lecomber, who was, until 2008, one of Griffin’s right-hand men. Lecomber proposed a racist eugenics programme, echoing that of the Nazi murderer Dr Josef Mengele, which advocated a “racially purer” Britain through the sterilisation of the poor, the sick and the disabled. Lecomber believed, and presumably still does, that the rich are “genetically superior” to ordinary people and that poor people should not be allowed to have their own children.

Marshall, who was seventh on the BNP’s London Assembly list in May 2008, is a racist who wants to raise tension between white and Muslim communities.

His own views make it perfectly clear that he wishes to foment the sort of “civil war” that Nick Griffin constantly harps on about and from which only the BNP can gain. “The Muslims must be wound up as much as possible – so they will make the maximum amount of trouble. Then it will be clearer to the public what immigration has done to this country.”

Could the BNP make its views or strategy any clearer?

From Searchlight Magazine. If the disgusting racism of the BNP doesn't move some of the posters on here, maybe the fact that a prominent member of it decided to insult the memory of a dead child before he was even cold will.

[Cobbo]

Would BNP voters be happy if they were identified?

I would not care if I were identified for whom I support, but would they?

Scum.

The lot of them. I would spit on them but they are not worth my flem.

[Daggers]

I would not care if I were identified for whom I support, but would they?

They got a bit iffy about having their membership list published.