FAO BNP Voters (And BNP Haters)

[Guest Bilo]

They got a bit iffy about having their membership list published.

I thought that was genuinely brilliant. They deserved all that was coming to them. ****ing scum.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

Nothing of any practical value? What do you know about any contribution I might make to the local community?. I certainly don't have to vote for some local politician to "make a difference" however small.

I've never been a big fan of the way our democratic system is set up and doing things that I choose to do, and in my own way, is much more suited to my nature than voting for someone I don't really want to vote for.

Labour wouldn't have missed my vote anyway cos they wouldn't have got it. And if they had it wouldn't have done them any good cos they had no chance on my block.

That's not to dismiss the work of local councillors. Some do make a worthwhile contribution. I just don't see anyone in our area as representing me and, in truth, with the situation as it is, I'd rather represent myself. Indeed I rather wish our councils were made up of people who represented themselves rather than the dictates of some party.

No you would rather sit here argue till you are blue in the face and then not vote! Whether you agree with the sytem or not, people have lost their lives fighting for the democracy this country has and in my opinion we owe this some respect and should excercise our rights. I like you felt the ballot paper did little for me, but in the end I voted Lib dem, I felt they are pretty much the only party to have got the majority of issues right over the last 12 months and the councillor when he knocked on my door, was very pleasant and seemed keen to discuss what politics modules i was studying at university.

I find it rather hypocritcal to argue that something needs to be done about immigration and this that on here, but yet you didn't exercise your democratic right. Unfortunately that doesn't sit well with me.

[Thracian]

No you would rather sit here argue till you are blue in the face and then not vote! Whether you agree with the sytem or not, people have lost their lives fighting for the democracy this country has and in my opinion we owe this some respect and should excercise our rights. I like you felt the ballot paper did little for me, but in the end I voted Lib dem, I felt they are pretty much the only party to have got the majority of issues right over the last 12 months and the councillor when he knocked on my door, was very pleasant and seemed keen to discuss what politics modules i was studying at university.

I find it rather hypocritcal to argue that something needs to be done about immigration and this that on here, but yet you didn't exercise your democratic right. Unfortunately that doesn't sit well with me.

It's not you that makes the decision for me. When I'm presented with the choice of someone I want to vote for and whose party represents my viewpoint then I'll be perfectly happy to vote. Until then I won't and I certainly won't vote for options that "do little for me" or because someone comes across nicely on the doorstep. Most politicians are "nice" on the doorstep.

[Thracian]

From Searchlight Magazine. If the disgusting racism of the BNP doesn't move some of the posters on here, maybe the fact that a prominent member of it decided to insult the memory of a dead child before he was even cold will.

The comment about the handicapped child is not only offensive but misguided. Coping with and working to overcome the problems of handicap is not in the least bit unproductive but can instead be extremely constructie and can lead to a whole heap of developments which not only help the particular patient but can be improved or adapted to help many others.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Just to confirm what you say that I don't think immigrants are "inferior" in any way. Quite the contrary in many ways such as the fitness, speed and strength of so many Africans and Afro-Americans or the language skills of so many Asians and mainland Europeans to give but two examples.

Personally I love the diversity of culture we have in Britain and find it no problem getting on with most people whatever their faith or background.

But none of that detracts from the fundamental responsibility of our Governement to fist look after the interests and welfare of our own indigenous population whether they be good, bad or indifferent.

Anything else by way of social service to the rest of the world's people should be by way of a bonus - generous in the good times and more restrained in times times of hardship.

Hopefully I've long been consistent in this view.

Considering how Britian has been accepting 'immagrants' for over 40 years now and has been a lead member of europe, it is surely not that simple to know who is our 'indigenous population' or not.

Would you like to clarify what criteria you would put forward to identify one from the other?

Would this mean Britain would no longer be a part of Europe?

Would you turn away skilled workers where they are desperately needed?

Does this closed door approach also extend to countries we seem more friendly with - eg, no more Australian barman (sorry stereotype!)

Is immigatration your real concern - or is it Aslyam Skeekers - as these are often confused?

So if we find ourselves in trouble (say France decide they don't like us.) should the rest of the world only assist us if it's ok with them, and we should all feel lucky that we gained this bonus from them!

[breadandcheese]

Are people confusing me and Finners or something?

In my case, yes, completely.

In a completely unrelated topic, can any Labour supporter explain how Gordon Brown can talk about reforming the house of lords when he gives out peerages right, left and centre to unelected people so that he can add them to his cabinet. Alan Sugar, Glenys Kinnock, Mandelson. It's an affront to deomcracy that we can have so many unelected people in the cabinet.

The BNP issue is not as pronounced as this thread would suggest. I can't help the feeling that actually, it's just people are fed up with the government. The Lib Dems haven't exactly cleaned up, which is where you would expect Labour voters to go, if switching their vote. The fact the Lib Dems didn't have such a strong showing makes me believe that Labour voters stayed away.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

The BNP issue is not as pronounced as this thread would suggest. I can't help the feeling that actually, it's just people are fed up with the government. The Lib Dems haven't exactly cleaned up, which is where you would expect Labour voters to go, if switching their vote. The fact the Lib Dems didn't have such a strong showing makes me believe that Labour voters stayed away.

I think there was also an issue with how the parties and other leaders decided to deal with the possible threat of people voting for the BNP - they used the stupid tactic of 'telling people not to do it' rather than tackle their "policies" head on.

True, the media had bigger things to fry last week which didn't help, but I didn't see anything come my way saying what ANY of the parties would do in the European elections, both locally and nationally.

Politics still doesn't appeal to the younger auidance, and parilment is still not representative of the nation as a whole. This may never change, but I find it worrying that a lot of people my age 20-30's didn't vote. Can't say I was any better as although I voted, I didn't know who was who so didn't have much to base my vote on.

May I add - Question Time is brilliant, and it's hopeful to see that they can attract some younger faces in the crowd and create lively debate, but more of this is needed to get messages out there of who each major party is looking to change the country for the better.

[Finnegan]

Are people confusing me and Finners or something?

You are practically the same person.

Oooh yeaaah, Thom Yorke, that's gooood yeaaa-... what the fuck? What are you guys doing here?

[Nod.E]

Don't know a lot about politics.

Do know that BNP are bad news.

Surely if we stopped immigrants migrating to the UK, terrorism would be more of a threat?

Just a thought. Probably covered already.

Obviously there are the many other reasons why people shouldn't vote BNP, but I don't know enough about politics to adequately create an arguement around it.

[Webbo]

Old right-wing crackpots generally stick together.

Middle aged!

[Bellend Sebastian]

You exist in this world where you never raise your voice above a mild whisper, mumbling into your real ale and sucking the arse of the great and the good

It's always worked for me

[Guest]

a) So four years ago, more kids were dropping out of uni. And when these kids drop out of university, what kind of jobs are they looking for? I'll give you a clue; it's not the kind of work that employers are having to use migrant workers for.

b) The unemployment figures will include those who have no intention of looking for work. This report indicates that there are vacancies available. It also states that 25% are still on jobseekers after 6 months, so where are the other 75%?

One other thing worth noting is the new immigration policy; we have a points based system now. This will limit the numbers of non-EU migrant workers coming to the UK. It has been suggested that the Labour government has introduced this in response to public opinion and concerns over immigration. This is something that I have mentioned on numerous occasions, as have other posters. I don't know how many more times I need to post it before you understand I am not ignoring the point you refer to.

c) No discrimination is fair, but the one example you have given concerns an organisation that is seen to be racist, and is having difficulty in recruiting from ethnic, as well as other, minority groups. Representation of these groups, as already stated, is disproportionate to the nation, let alone the community it purports to support. As I asked in my last post, how exactly should this discrepancy be rectified?

a) But their dropping out hardly illustrates a competitiveness and determination to see things through to a successful conclusion. Immigrants seem to be looking for all kinds of work. Are you saying the indigenous population wouldn't work as teachers, bus drivers, health service workers and so on?

b) From what I can gather there are all sorts of variables relating to employment figures but nothing I've heard or seen suggests there are realitic jobs available to many of the people who are looking for work. Enlighten me if you wish by all means but I think the immigrant 25-year-old finds it easier to get a job than the indigenous 55-year-old.

c) Just because I only mentioned one example doesn't mean positive discrimination isn't rampant. It is.

I came across this random comment:

10% of social housing in the UK has been left to one side for immigration. There is one million less social houses in the UK now than there was twenty years ago, and over one hundred thousand people deamed homeless in the UK.

And then this (on Politic.co.uk) dated April 2006:

Dear reader,

London's marxist mayor, Ken Livingston seeks to down grade the quality of the world renowned London cabbie by making it easier for non whites to pass the rigourous examination process known as The Knowledge. Various forms of financial funding are in the pipeline such as school fees, free motorbikes and running costs etc will be dolled out with the usual gusto to anyone who isnt White/British.

Trust me when I say I have researched this subject for some time as rumours of it have circulated for the last 12 months and it now appears to be nearing fruition.

This is a concern close to myself as I am currently approaching the end (I hope) of my time on the Knowledge and can confirm it is by far the most difficult task I have ever attempted.

Please do not misunderstand me, I do not have a problem with any person of any race studying the knowledge and becoming a cabbie but making it easier for some will only water down the calibre of the said cabbie.

I have been studying the 'K' for over 2 years now averaging 70 hours a week on my studies to crack this nut in the fastest time I can. The drop out rate for K students is 80%, due to the difficultness of the task and the interferance it can cause with family or social life and can take students 6 or 7 years to complete part time.

This is why the end product, the cabbie, is one who has really earned his salt, is an extremely skilled worker who takes pride in what he has achieved and his job also. People coming in fast tracked the easy way wont have these same feelings for the job and no longer will the world cab trade look at London as the pinnacle of expertise.

I would have thought this is something to hold onto. Positive discrimination only causes friction in society against the people it is supposed to benefit. Especially as it always seems to go one way. To my knowledge there are no schemes trying to intice white British people into becoming traffic wardens!

If you agree with me please sign the petition through the link below. Please note you will be sent an email which needs replying to for your signiture to count. Thank you for your time( taken from a local cabbies website and forum)

Petition to: stop the postive discrimination against knowledge students.

__________________

In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act - George Orwell

As for Labour's new immigration policy I am simply not convinced it will ever be applied effectively. Labour have made so many promises about immigation controls and about their intention to deport various people who are still here that I just don't believe they will ever deliver. There is even talk about amnesty's for illegals. How does the one idea equate with the other. Did a judge not remark recently that he was sick of seeing people he thought he'd "deported" walking past him in the street?.

There is no need to "rectify" anything. People should simply be treated on merit as you indicated that they were 15 years ago. Can you not see that it is the very fact that some people are treated more equally than others that is fanning the growth of parties like the BNP?

If this government had not accommodated and effectively encouraged the great wave of immigrant arrivals to this country there would have been no great changes of population to make special rules for.

Immigration should have been left as a natural process but with the number of arrivals firmly and properly controlled. Even now we are seen as an easy touch for welfare and the fact that so much social housing is reserved for immigrants only emphasises that.

I never did get that list from Ultra showing the ethnic distribution of social housing in Leicester.

Were our country's welfare provisions not so attractive to immigrants (and everyone else) the endless pressure on our services would ease. And more of the 2.3 million unemployed would have to do the menial tasks you suggest are beneath them because otherwise they wouldn't eat and their kids would be taken into care. Great effort should be made to de-stigmatise menial working. To me it is just as valuable as any other work.

I'm sorry, I have read through this twice now, and can't find any answers to the three simple little questions.

[Scow]

Please note: this is the right sort of Griffin.

[Ultra]

I'm sorry, I have read through this twice now, and can't find any answers to the three simple little questions.

Anyone who believes that London cabbies are a credible source of political knowledge does not deserve to be taken seriously.

If this thread teaches us anything it's that no matter how low politicos may sink, the profession will always have more integrity than journalism does.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

c) Just because I only mentioned one example doesn't mean positive discrimination isn't rampant. It is.

And then this (on Politic.co.uk) dated April 2006:

Dear reader,

London's marxist mayor, Ken Livingston seeks to down grade the quality of the world renowned London cabbie by making it easier for non whites to pass the rigourous examination process known as The Knowledge. Various forms of financial funding are in the pipeline such as school fees, free motorbikes and running costs etc will be dolled out with the usual gusto to anyone who isnt White/British.

Sadly I can't find any link to this "2006 proposal" from Ken Livingston online, but I would dare to say that this move could well of been similar to an issue we had in Bristol with buses - their simply wasn't enough people willing to drive them within the area, so first bus (not labour!) actively recruited from eastern europe, which resulted in an influx of polish people to drive the buses.

It's seems the view that 'they are taking our jobs' is a purely churlish one. Rather than complain about who you're competition is, why not try to live up to it and prove that you are better than the people in possesion?

Part of me thinks you get a kick out of everyone arguing against you on these matters, so why I and others should continue to respond I don't know.

[Thracian]

Sadly I can't find any link to this "2006 proposal" from Ken Livingston online, but I would dare to say that this move could well of been similar to an issue we had in Bristol with buses - their simply wasn't enough people willing to drive them within the area, so first bus (not labour!) actively recruited from eastern europe, which resulted in an influx of polish people to drive the buses.

It's seems the view that 'they are taking our jobs' is a purely churlish one. Rather than complain about who you're competition is, why not try to live up to it and prove that you are better than the people in possesion?

Part of me thinks you get a kick out of everyone arguing against you on these matters, so why I and others should continue to respond I don't know.

Oh come on. The politicis of envy gets so much support in this country that I'm considered neanderthal in believing that what should really apply was summed up in a phrase i heard this morning - "we should promote the politics of emulation instead of envy".

But no. So many people - and on here just as elsewhere - would impose higher taxes on the successful. They'd close private schools and anything that is seen as being elitist and have us all subject to lowest common denominator politics. In other words the bright and successful should be used to lift the dim and unmotivated. They don't want the idea of "living up to anyone" to prevail at all.

And it is not fair competition that bothers me at all. I'm as competitive as they come because I don'tget paid by anyone escept by my own efforts.

It is the unfair loading that pisses me off. Why should your kid, my kid or anyone else's kid not be accepted for the Police force or the Fire Service because they really want someone to balance their racial quotas?

People talk about the principal of equality but impose conditions that are anything but fair. I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one around who really does see people as equal.

And, don't worry about feeling I get a kick out of people arguing with me. This forum only exists if people are talking and I was effective as a journalist not because I was anything in any way but because I had my own angle on things, because I was naturally provocative and because I got people going.

My columns always irritated people and got people talking. But because of that they were read and they helped to sell newspapers.

So, yes, there is a degree of delberate wind up. What's the problem? It makes people think about their views and the resulting debate helps to keep this forum going. If you don't want to respond you don't have to. I don't give a shit.

PS: Why would people not drive the buses? The wages are perfectly reasonable. There is nothing "demeaning" about providing the service of driving a bus. Have you ever even explored the reasons why potential English drivers didn't want to drive a bus?

When my two businesses plunged during the period of my wife's illness I'd have loved to drive a bus.

But I couldn't. I wouldn't have passed the eyesight test. Ironic that seeing as I had my own full-sized 56-seater motor coach which I was perfectly entitled to drive so long as I didn't carry paying passengers. What other reasons might there have been?

A percentage of the unemployed might not have had a driving licence for a start and, rather than train them, they preferred to get people in from Poland. That would have left the non-drivers on the dole queue and the Poles having to be taught the routes and the English road signs. And that's just one reason. Native English people (mostly) have two arms, two legs and a head the same as everyone else. They are as well capable of driving a bus as anyone else. Why we need to import people to drive buses I don't know. But I'm damned sure I could find out if I took the trouble.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Don't be fooled! He's just posted the same thing twice! You still don't agree with either of them!

[Webbo]

Oh come on. The politicis of envy gets so much support in this country that I'm considered neanderthal in believing that what should really apply was summed up in a phrase i heard this morning - "we should promote the politics of emulation instead of envy".

But no. So many people - and on here just as elsewhere - would impose higher taxes on the successful. They'd close private schools and anything that is seen as being elitist and have us all subject to lowest common denominator politics. In other words the bright and successful should be used to lift the dim and unmotivated. They don't want the idea of "living up to anyone" to prevail at all.

And it is not fair competition that bothers me at all. I'm as competitive as they come because I don'tget paid by anyone escept by my own efforts.

It is the unfair loading that pisses me off. Why should your kid, my kid or anyone else's kid not be accepted for the Police force or the Fire Service because they really want someone to balance their racial quotas?

People talk about the principal of equality but impose conditions that are anything but fair. I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one around who really does see people as equal.

And, don't worry about feeling I get a kick out of people arguing with me. This forum only exists if people are talking and I was effective as a journalist not because I was anything in any way but because I had my own angle on things, because I was naturally provocative and because I got people going.

My columns always irritated people and got people talking. But because of that they were read and they helped to sell newspapers.

So, yes, there is a degree of delberate wind up. What's the problem? It makes people think about their views and the resulting debate helps to keep this forum going. If you don't want to respond you don't have to. I don't give a shit.

PS: Why would people not drive the buses? The wages are perfectly reasonable. There is nothing "demeaning" about providing the service of driving a bus. Have you ever even explored the reasons why potential English drivers didn't want to drive a bus?

When my two businesses plunged during the period of my wife's illness I'd have loved to drive a bus.

But I couldn't. I wouldn't have passed the eyesight test. Ironic that seeing as I had my own full-sized 56-seater motor coach which I was perfectly entitled to drive so long as I didn't carry paying passengers. What other reasons might there have been?

A percentage of the unemployed might not have had a driving licence for a start and, rather than train them, they preferred to get people in from Poland. That would have left the non-drivers on the dole queue and the Poles having to be taught the routes and the English road signs. And that's just one reason. Native English people (mostly) have two arms, two legs and a head the same as everyone else. They are as well capable of driving a bus as anyone else. Why we need to import people to drive buses I don't know. But I'm damned sure I could find out if I took the trouble.

Can't disagree with any of that.

[Zingari]

Can't disagree with any of that.

is there an echo in here ?

Can't disagree with any of that.

is there an echo in here ?

[Webbo]

is there an echo in here ?

is there an echo in here ?

No, I stutter.

[Daggers]

Can't disagree with any of that.

Not even the nonsensical insinuation that bus companies are racist because they didn't give him an interview because he is white, for a job he never applied for?

[DJ Barry Hammond]

But no. So many people - and on here just as elsewhere - would impose higher taxes on the successful. They'd close private schools and anything that is seen as being elitist and have us all subject to lowest common denominator politics. In other words the bright and successful should be used to lift the dim and unmotivated. They don't want the idea of "living up to anyone" to prevail at all.

And it is not fair competition that bothers me at all. I'm as competitive as they come because I don'tget paid by anyone escept by my own efforts.

Surely this paragraph goes against your initial points though?

Rise to the competition - competition is never fair, someone will always have an advantage somewhere, it's natural selection at it's best. So whatever that competition is you need to be able to rise above it and prove you're better than the next man (or woman.) not complain that someone else won as they had things 'better than yourself.'

What the goverment is attempting to do in areas is assist in the evolving of certain disavandataged demographics, by providing training and the opportunity where previously the dominate white male ruled supreme. (And in places tried to keep out the competition.) This may not be fair, but it is life, different 'speices' (for want of a better word) evolve. The goverment may provide these incentives, but it is still down to the individuals to take these on and use them to there own advantage - it's not a free lunch.

But to some section of the british population, this help to those is seen as help that could of gone their way, regardless of whether this would be deserved or not. It's not about 'do i get what i earn' these days it's 'do i get less than that person over there' a cluture that I think is being bread more by the media than any political party - infact political parties seem bereft of any type of infulence at all at the moment.

The youth today were shown a life of easy wealth and celebrately, which has suddenly changed into hard times in which you have to fight to get by - sadly many don't have the fight to want to suceed against these obsticals.

[Thracian]

I'm sorry, I have read through this twice now, and can't find any answers to the three simple little questions.

a) You tell me. The best they can get I'd imagine. But I'd have to canvas some to find out for sure. As for migrant workers my son employs a good few in his accountancy, I see a good few driving buses, there is a massive campaign for immigrants to become teachers...what "sort" of jobs do you categorise immigrants as competing for?

b) I have no idea how many unemployed UK residents have no intention of finding a job and, apart from the level of benefits they get in doing so, cannot imagine a lot of reasons why that should be their attitude. Would you pay them benefit? As for the so-called list of jobs where are they and what are they? I canno see a single one listed. And 0.5m jobs across an entire country is damn-all especially if a high proportion of people are never going to be candidates because of things like:

a) They cannot drive.

b) The job is nowhere near where they live and they cannot afford to move.

c) They cannot satisfy health requirements.

d) They don't have the required paper qualifications.

e) They have children they are responsible for and cannot economically mix the two.

f) They would be very little better off than they would be living off income support.

c) If you apply that argument logically why, when this country had very few immigrants, would they ever have been given jobs on the basis of proportional representation? The whole argument is contrived political bullshit. If certain people don't want to be policed by whoever from the existing population of this land they shouldn't be here. It's like saying I only want to be served in a restaurant by a white waitress. I don't care. I'm happy to be served by whoever's on duty...differentiation doesn't exist for me and never has.

[Edmund]

.

[Webbo]

Not even the nonsensical insinuation that bus companies are racist because they didn't give him an interview because he is white, for a job he never applied for?

That wasn't my interpretation. I understood it as why import bus drivers from Poland when there lots of people on the dole here?

I can't see any economic benefit from letting people who are capable of working rot on the dole. If we couldn't import workers from abroad then the govt would be forced to do something about the long term unemployed.