International Footy

[Finnegan]

I've been impressed with the Montenegrins.

They will be a decent competitive side in a couple of years and I reckon they could well make the Euros in 2012.

Some good players, I do like Montenegro - but getting hammered 4 - 1 by Bulgaria is pretty damning.

There's too much of an imbalance in their squad. Some of them, like Jovetic and Vucinic and the lad Vukcevic are obviously quality and will still improve. But a large majority of their squad are pretty much playing for pub teams. I mean Serbia are considered a fairly minor footballing nation that are developing and coming along well, the sort of thing you're describing Montenegro to be.

But you can call on players from Sevilla, Man Utd, Chelsea, Lazio, Dortmund, Inter, PSV, Valencia, etc. Montenegro's players are playing for miniscule European leagues, second division German clubs and the like. The average Northern Ireland squad is drawn from better teams than that and they've got no hope.

It comes to something when the Welsh presh were embarassed at losing to Montenegro away. When we consider losing to someone away to be something of a humiliation you know they're not up to much.

[shen]

Some good players, I do like Montenegro - but getting hammered 4 - 1 by Bulgaria is pretty damning.

There's too much of an imbalance in their squad. Some of them, like Jovetic and Vucinic and the lad Vukcevic are obviously quality and will still improve. But a large majority of their squad are pretty much playing for pub teams. I mean Serbia are considered a fairly minor footballing nation that are developing and coming along well, the sort of thing you're describing Montenegro to be.

But you can call on players from Sevilla, Man Utd, Chelsea, Lazio, Dortmund, Inter, PSV, Valencia, etc. Montenegro's players are playing for miniscule European leagues, second division German clubs and the like. The average Northern Ireland squad is drawn from better teams than that and they've got no hope.

It comes to something when the Welsh presh were embarassed at losing to Montenegro away. When we consider losing to someone away to be something of a humiliation you know they're not up to much.

Well they do have to start somewhere those Montenegrins...

Don't NI have a slight hope of making it? They almost surprised last time around and are looking decent in second place now

[Asha]

Well they do have to start somewhere those Montenegrins...

Don't NI have a slight hope of making it? They almost surprised last time around and are looking decent in second place now

Hopefully Poland will beat them to that 2nd place.

[Lillehamring]

The way they balance it out is to take the second-placed team's results against the three highest-placed other teams in the group. Thus only Scotland's results against the Netherlands, Norway and Macedonia would count.

As this record already includes three defeats, it doesn't look too good for them. So Wednedsay's game is an absolute must-win, and even then they have to hope results in other groups go their way.

But with McFadden banned, I reckon they haven't a cat's chance of beating the Dutch anyway.

Close but significantly wrong....

because scotland are in the small group, ALL their results count, it is the runners-up in the larger group who don't include their points against the bottom team in their league....naturally, this even's out the amount of games played.... why they couldn't have just added one more team is beyond me...

norway have a 'micro hope' of getting through, they were like leicester against iceland, started strong, awesome riise free kick, and then sat back and let iceland come at them... i missed the second half due to partying commitments... but looks like they only have themselves to blame.

i'm off to the final game on wednesday, shame, would have been a great atmosphere if they'd beat iceland, but still that very slim chance....

[The Doctor]

Pretty sure thats correct. It is quite difficult to get your head round. I cant see Scotland making it past the playoffs anyway! Not if they end up with France or Russia

can if we actually defend in the away leg this time round.

Euro 2004 play-offs

Scotland 1-0 Holland Last time they were at hampden as well

Holland 6-0 Scotland

[Father Ted]

Some good players, I do like Montenegro - but getting hammered 4 - 1 by Bulgaria is pretty damning.

There's too much of an imbalance in their squad. Some of them, like Jovetic and Vucinic and the lad Vukcevic are obviously quality and will still improve. But a large majority of their squad are pretty much playing for pub teams. I mean Serbia are considered a fairly minor footballing nation that are developing and coming along well, the sort of thing you're describing Montenegro to be.

But you can call on players from Sevilla, Man Utd, Chelsea, Lazio, Dortmund, Inter, PSV, Valencia, etc. Montenegro's players are playing for miniscule European leagues, second division German clubs and the like. The average Northern Ireland squad is drawn from better teams than that and they've got no hope.

It comes to something when the Welsh presh were embarassed at losing to Montenegro away. When we consider losing to someone away to be something of a humiliation you know they're not up to much.

That's a good point. Clearly there is an imbalance in the squad with the defence being much poorer than the attack but players like Vucinic and Jovetic are still at a young age. They are certainly no pushovers which has been shown as they have drawn 4 of the 7 group games aswell as friendly wins against Norway, Hungary and Wales ( ) They will progress and I'm sure that there must be several players from the old Yugoslav nations who could also represent Montenegro but have decided to carry on as they are.

Dejan Savicevic is a Montenegrin and I have no doubt that they will produce some quality players in the future just like Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia currently are.

[StanSP]

I guess this is the right place for it.

England vs Ukraine might not be on TV.

No offers from Sky, ITV, BBC or even Channel 5 to screen it.

http://msn.football365.com/story/0,17033,8...5541163,00.html

And The FA can't do anything because it's an away game. They can't prevent the 'blackout'. ITV only have licenses to show Home Qualifiers. They only showed the Holland game last month because that was an away friendly. Basically no-one now has the rights to show this game as Setanta went bust.

[dandannieldanok]

I guess this is the right place for it.

England vs Ukraine might not be on TV.

No offers from Sky, ITV, BBC or even Channel 5 to screen it.

http://msn.football365.com/story/0,17033,8...5541163,00.html

And The FA can't do anything because it's an away game. They can't prevent the 'blackout'. ITV only have licenses to show Home Qualifiers. They only showed the Holland game last month because that was an away friendly. Basically no-one now has the rights to show this game as Setanta went bust.

Should hopefully be a meaningless game anyway.

[StanSP]

Should hopefully be a meaningless game anyway.

True. But I'd still like to watch my home nation play without paying for it (that sounds quite snobbish but I don't mean it that way!) like I have done before.

[dandannieldanok]

True. But I'd still like to watch my home nation play without paying for it (that sounds quite snobbish but I don't mean it that way!) like I have done before.

The days of that are long gone I'm afraid, I for one won't be surprised if in a few years England games will be off terrestrial/freeview altogether.

[Finnegan]

That's a good point. Clearly there is an imbalance in the squad with the defence being much poorer than the attack but players like Vucinic and Jovetic are still at a young age. They are certainly no pushovers which has been shown as they have drawn 4 of the 7 group games aswell as friendly wins against Norway, Hungary and Wales ( ) They will progress and I'm sure that there must be several players from the old Yugoslav nations who could also represent Montenegro but have decided to carry on as they are.

Dejan Savicevic is a Montenegrin and I have no doubt that they will produce some quality players in the future just like Serbia, Croatia and Bosnia currently are.

Thing is though, when you keep dividing up a nation you're stripping away it's potential player base. Yugoslavia as an entity was about half the size of the UK with about a quarter of the population, you keep stripping that away and someone's going to have to draw the short straw.

It's the same with breaking down us into four home nations. Montenegro is tiny, it's only got just over half a million people living there (compared to 3m in Wales.) I'm not saying country size always directly correlates to footballing success but they're always going to have to be hugely, hugly fortunate to develop an entire generation of skillful footballers at any given time.

Expecting Montenegro to do well purely because Croatia and Serbia have is just, well. Wishful thinking, really.

[The Doctor]

speaking of serbia and montenegro, which nation did the players who played for S&M before the break-up play for. did they just get to choose which?

[Father Ted]

Thing is though, when you keep dividing up a nation you're stripping away it's potential player base. Yugoslavia as an entity was about half the size of the UK with about a quarter of the population, you keep stripping that away and someone's going to have to draw the short straw.

It's the same with breaking down us into four home nations. Montenegro is tiny, it's only got just over half a million people living there (compared to 3m in Wales.) I'm not saying country size always directly correlates to footballing success but they're always going to have to be hugely, hugly fortunate to develop an entire generation of skillful footballers at any given time.

Expecting Montenegro to do well purely because Croatia and Serbia have is just, well. Wishful thinking, really.

I think that you'll find that before 1991, Yugoslavia was at least the size of UK if not bigger.

I'm not being funny or anything but the ex-Yugoslav countries always provide some of the best sports players in the world - football, basketball, volleyball, water polo, etc.

Obviously there may be a smaller population but it's the way the children are taught and the attitude towards the sports aswell. EVERY child plays a sport in those countries. No matter how bad you may be, the countries take huge pride on their sports, from Boules to Handball to the now upcoming Rugby league, they are proud sportsman and they are taught from much earlier ages here.

They recently changed it here in that you could only start playing from under-8's but over there they start at 4 or 5 and the academies also work in different ways. Let's take Red Star Belgrade for example. They run boarding schools in which the player learns at the camp, lives and sleeps there but train every day and are always being watched by Red Star.

The way they learn their skills is also different. The first ball that they practice playing with is a golf ball, when you can control and play with that, you move up to a tennis ball and so on.

Also here, the bigger clubs are poaching foreign youngsters which are pushing other talented British youth out and down the leagues.

[Father Ted]

speaking of serbia and montenegro, which nation did the players who played for S&M before the break-up play for. did they just get to choose which?

Well, obviously you had to have certain things to pass to play for the separate countries such as being born in Montenegro to play for Montenegro.

From what I can remember only the goalkeeper (Jevric) and Vucinic went to play for Montenegro.

EDIT: Jevric retired after the World Cup but could have played for Montenegro.

[StanSP]

Well, obviously you had to have certain things to pass to play for the separate countries such as being born in Montenegro to play for Montenegro.

From what I can remember only the goalkeeper (Jevric) and Vucinic went to play for Montenegro.

EDIT: Jevric retired after the World Cup but could have played for Montenegro.

Which way did the ex-Chelsea STAR () forward Mateja Kezman go?

[Fosse Boy]

The English national anthem is "Land of Hope and Glory" not "God Save the Queen".....We English have to sing the British national anthem for some reason

LOHAG is a far more rousing anthem, and at least it's about the country itself, not just the head of state. I'd be very much in ffavour of a switch.

Algeria v Zambia tonight

actually have a good chance of getting to the world cup for the first time since 1986

would do anything to see Algeria in the world cup and walking around Market Harborough with my Algeria top on!

Vive Algerie!

I'd beat you up if I saw you in the street, glory hunter.

[Finnegan]

I think that you'll find that before 1991, Yugoslavia was at least the size of UK if not bigger.

Errr.... even at it's peak it's population was significantly smaller. There's never been the same population density in the region as there is in the UK.

[Father Ted]

Yugoslavia as an entity was about half the size of the UK with about a quarter of the population,

Errr.... even at it's peak it's population was significantly smaller. There's never been the same population density in the region as there is in the UK.

Is it me or are size and population density two different things AM I STUPID OR SOMETHING?!?!

Area of United Kingdom - 244820 square Kilometres

Area of Old Yugoslavia - 88361 + 56542 + 14026 + 51197 + 20273 + 10887 + 25333 = 266619 square kilometres.

Therefore Yugoslavia being 21799 square kilometres bigger than the UK and NOT half.

As for the population, the evidence would be corrupted as Yugoslavia as a whole would only have a population from before 1991.

[Father Ted]

Which way did the ex-Chelsea STAR () forward Mateja Kezman go?

Let's just say Vidic scared the shit out of him

[Finnegan]

.... what has land mass got to do with how many footballers you can produce? And you can just, yknow... go look at the 1991 census?

The important numbers here are population figures. And I reiterate once more that I'm not saying a small country can't produce a decent football team, but it's far less statistically likely that Montenegro are going to produce a generation of fantastic players when there's less than a million people living in their nation. They're always going to be disadvantaged.

[Father Ted]

.... what has land mass got to do with how many footballers you can produce? And you can just, yknow... go look at the 1991 census?

The important numbers here are population figures. And I reiterate once more that I'm not saying a small country can't produce a decent football team, but it's far less statistically likely that Montenegro are going to produce a generation of fantastic players when there's less than a million people living in their nation. They're always going to be disadvantaged.

But you referred to the size of the countries in your first post... As I showed you a couple of posts ago...

And I also answered this before aswell:

I think that you'll find that before 1991, Yugoslavia was at least the size of UK if not bigger.

I'm not being funny or anything but the ex-Yugoslav countries always provide some of the best sports players in the world - football, basketball, volleyball, water polo, etc.

Obviously there may be a smaller population but it's the way the children are taught and the attitude towards the sports aswell. EVERY child plays a sport in those countries. No matter how bad you may be, the countries take huge pride on their sports, from Boules to Handball to the now upcoming Rugby league, they are proud sportsman and they are taught from much earlier ages here.

They recently changed it here in that you could only start playing from under-8's but over there they start at 4 or 5 and the academies also work in different ways. Let's take Red Star Belgrade for example. They run boarding schools in which the player learns at the camp, lives and sleeps there but train every day and are always being watched by Red Star.

The way they learn their skills is also different. The first ball that they practice playing with is a golf ball, when you can control and play with that, you move up to a tennis ball and so on.

Also here, the bigger clubs are poaching foreign youngsters which are pushing other talented British youth out and down the leagues.

How many more times will I have to repeat myself??

[Finnegan]

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

[Father Ted]

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

How can I intentionally be an angle between 90 and 180 degrees??

I think you'll find that you should bother reading my posts fully before repeating and repeating the same old stuff.

I think you might also need stronger glasses.

[StanSP]

How can I intentionally be an angle between 90 and 180 degrees??

I think you'll find that you should bother reading my posts fully before repeating and repeating the same old stuff.

I think you might also need stronger glasses.

[Radovan's Caravan]

.... what has land mass got to do with how many footballers you can produce? And you can just, yknow... go look at the 1991 census?

The important numbers here are population figures. And I reiterate once more that I'm not saying a small country can't produce a decent football team, but it's far less statistically likely that Montenegro are going to produce a generation of fantastic players when there's less than a million people living in their nation. They're always going to be disadvantaged.

The peak population of the former Yugoslavia before the break up was just under 15,000,000.

Uruguay won the World Cup TWICE when its population was smaller than Wales'.

Hungary (arguably the greatest national side of all time) were swindled out of the World Cup in 1954 (runners up) with a population well below 10,000,000.

Some African sides with populations of aorund 10,000,000 have a realistic chance of winning the World Cup next year (watch out for Cote d'Ivoire - population 12, 000, 000).

However that sporting monoculture Brazil is the big cat amongst the midget pigeons. It's population by the time of next year's World Cup will be approaching 200,000,000. That combined with pedigree, expectations and the talent conveyer belt will probably see off any minnow who feels its time has come.

And with 8.5 million square kilometres to have a kick about in that's one helluva lot of foottie pitches!