Brown Out Cameron In

[dandannieldanok]

Apparently Labour Party website is having to deal with 20 people per minute trying to join up.

Wouldn't surprise me, probably all angry Liberals who recognise what Clegg has done.

[FoxyPV]

He got elected in his constituency though didn't he?

I might be wrong so doesn't that mean he's just a normal politician now in the opposition?

He'll be a senior backbencher now and probably just focus on constituency duties.

[stez]

Yes all true, but we've had Brown and Labour absolutely slated for even considering to try and have some power. Now Clegg waltzes in with less votes and over 200 seats less, and all of a sudden they're dictating things to the Tories. It's laughable really and hopefully true Liberals will not just follow Clegg's power-hunger and actually speak out against this cosying-up with a party fundamentally against their core beliefs. Can anyone who voted Liberal Democrat really say they're happy with Clegg's actions, after all his talk in the debates about a genuine different option to the main 2 parties. Those words seem pretty hollow now.

Btw none of this is bitterness that Clegg didn't turn to Labour, I'm glad that hasn't happened. I just think it's fundamentally wrong that the Lib Dems and Clegg suddenly have more power than the electorate wanted them to have. The result suggests a clear desire for a Tory minority govt.

that's definitely what was going through my mind as i voted!

[Head Honcho]

He got elected in his constituency though didn't he?

I might be wrong so doesn't that mean he's just a normal politician now in the opposition?

He's now just a backbencher but pressure from the media for a sound bite or to offer support to other MP's will be immense and the labour party could really do with him stepping down in a few months time.....................................say when they've given him a peerage maybe

[stez]

Wouldn't surprise me, probably all angry Liberals who recognise what Clegg has done.

so the libdems are down to 33 (or whatever) seats already?

[FoxyPV]

Lord Brown doesn't sound right

Sounds a bit like a big heroin dealer

[davieG]

Yes all true, but we've had Brown and Labour absolutely slated for even considering to try and have some power. Now Clegg waltzes in with less votes and over 200 seats less, and all of a sudden they're dictating things to the Tories. It's laughable really and hopefully true Liberals will not just follow Clegg's power-hunger and actually speak out against this cosying-up with a party fundamentally against their core beliefs. Can anyone who voted Liberal Democrat really say they're happy with Clegg's actions, after all his talk in the debates about a genuine different option to the main 2 parties. Those words seem pretty hollow now.

Btw none of this is bitterness that Clegg didn't turn to Labour, I'm glad that hasn't happened. I just think it's fundamentally wrong that the Lib Dems and Clegg suddenly have more power than the electorate wanted them to have. The result suggests a clear desire for a Tory minority govt.

200 seats less just demonstrates how undemocratic the system is. If the Tories don't want to be dictated to then they can say no, they're not being forced too. But the simple fact is they didn't win an outright majority so do not have mandate to form a stable government. The LibDems have as much power as getting nearly 7 million votes gets you, in case you hadn't noticed Labour only got just over 8.5 mill or 6% more.

It's not a case of whether the LibDems, the Tories or Labour are happy it's simple that the current first past the post system didn't work because that's how the people voted.

It's arrogant for anyone to feel they been hard done to because I repeat none of them won.

[Jon the Hat]

Apparently Labour Party website is having to deal with 20 people per minute trying to join up.

No surprise. Tory led government + Brown going is bound to lead to a bounce.

Cameron giving Clegg so much suggests that

A) We are in a new era of collaboration.

B) he knows it was hard to sell to the party.

C) he really wants the coaltion to work so is making the Lib Dems a very significant part of it.

Fair play to him I say, he has acted like a PM should.

[Finnegan]

Fair play to him I say, he has acted like a PM should.

This comes regardless of my own political position, but: I used to think that (despite our differing opinions) you were a fairly intelligent and fairly open minded voice on politics and current events. Over the last month or so you've genuinely made my skin crawl.

Larry's fairly entrenched in his beliefs but you're just some sort of out-right sycophant. You've got your tongue down Cameron's backside more than Ultra has his down Labour's and at least he has some motivation to do so (as much as he is still a complete wand.)

[Head Honcho]

No surprise. Tory led government + Brown going is bound to lead to a bounce.

Cameron giving Clegg so much suggests that

A) We are in a new era of collaboration.

B) he knows it was hard to sell to the party.

C) he really wants the coaltion to work so is making the Lib Dems a very significant part of it.

Fair play to him I say, he has acted like a PM should.

A PM maybe, but not a Conservative party leader.

He's forsaken many Conservative party values to get into number 10 and imo it's highly unlikely to work.

Cameron and Clegg were determined that they were going to form the next government, fair do's and good luck to them some will say but many Conservative party activists will be seething at how much they've had to concede, so fasten your seat belts, having a majority is one thing getting MP's to follow that majority is another.

It doesn't matter what Cameron has pledged to Clegg if the Tory MP's don't vote for it (and many won't) then it won't happen!

In the long run this is quite simply unworkable and when it does go tits up Labour will not only sweep up some of this elections Tory vote they'll also grab a quite considerable amount of the Libdem vote.

[Jon the Hat]

A PM maybe, but not a Conservative party leader.

He's forsaken many Conservative party values to get into number 10 and imo it's highly unlikely to work.

Cameron and Clegg were determined that they were going to form the next government, fair do's and good luck to them some will say but many Conservative party activists will be seething at how much they've had to concede, so fasten your seat belts, having a majority is one thing getting MP's to follow that majority is another.

It doesn't matter what Cameron has pledged to Clegg if the Tory MP's don't vote for it (and many won't) then it won't happen!

In the long run this is quite simply unworkable and when it does go tits up Labour will not only sweep up some of this elections Tory vote they'll also grab a quite considerable amount of the Libdem vote.

Bear in mind that 49% of Tory MP's are new and hence owe their position to Cameron. Still you have a fair point and this will be an interesting parliament to watch. I am not sure therebare really that many legislative points conceded though. You cannot vote down not doing something.

[Jon the Hat]

This comes regardless of my own political position, but: I used to think that (despite our differing opinions) you were a fairly intelligent and fairly open minded voice on politics and current events. Over the last month or so you've genuinely made my skin crawl.

Larry's fairly entrenched in his beliefs but you're just some sort of out-right sycophant. You've got your tongue down Cameron's backside more than Ultra has his down Labour's and at least he has some motivation to do so (as much as he is still a complete wand.)

Labour have been making my skin crawl for a decade, get used to it.

I used to think this was somewhere you could express opinions without personal abuse but apparently not anymore.

[Guest Bilo]

This comes regardless of my own political position, but: I used to think that (despite our differing opinions) you were a fairly intelligent and fairly open minded voice on politics and current events. Over the last month or so you've genuinely made my skin crawl.

Larry's fairly entrenched in his beliefs but you're just some sort of out-right sycophant. You've got your tongue down Cameron's backside more than Ultra has his down Labour's and at least he has some motivation to do so (as much as he is still a complete wand.)

Any chance of a most politically biased poster award? Has to be a three way fight between the three you've mentioned surely.

This is why I can't stand party politics, those who subscribe to it are like the most avid football fans who can see only good in their own side however they play, and nothing but negativity in the opposition however they play. L444ry can make Ultra look objective and neutral when on form, and I'm fairly certain that whatever this coalition government does he will use the kind of hate filled language to describe it most of us would reserve for the BNP. Jon will tell us all how wonderful the new government is, and even if they do make a complete Horlicks of it which can't be argued away, Clegg's party will be blamed and Ultra will, well, he'll be Ultra.

I'm sure I'll be described a fence-sitter, perhaps a mindless bandwagon jumper because I voted Lib Dem, but at least I can honestly say I objectively weighed up the merits of the three main parties before voting rather than blindly sticking my cross in the box of a party than doesn't deserve my vote. It's my belief that politics has been ruined by this kind of tribalism and perhaps the Tory concessions to the Lib Dems are the beginning of the end for this.

[breadandcheese]

Apparently this act of social justice will cost £17bn, which might mean a hefty increase in public spending cuts elsewhere.

If the LibDems have conceded that the deficit should start to be cut this year, not only is this a reversal of the previous LibDem position, it will greatly increase the risk of turning a highly fragile recovery into a double-dip recession.

Question for you. Why would giving £17bn to the people of the country to spend be worse for the economy than the government spending the £17bn? Is it not a bit arrogant to assume that the government can spend the £17bn better than taxpayers?

[Jon the Hat]

Any chance of a most politically biased poster award? Has to be a three way fight between the three you've mentioned surely.

This is why I can't stand party politics, those who subscribe to it are like the most avid football fans who can see only good in their own side however they play, and nothing but negativity in the opposition however they play. L444ry can make Ultra look objective and neutral when on form, and I'm fairly certain that whatever this coalition government does he will use the kind of hate filled language to describe it most of us would reserve for the BNP. Jon will tell us all how wonderful the new government is, and even if they do make a complete Horlicks of it which can't be argued away, Clegg's party will be blamed and Ultra will, well, he'll be Ultra.

I'm sure I'll be described a fence-sitter, perhaps a mindless bandwagon jumper because I voted Lib Dem, but at least I can honestly say I objectively weighed up the merits of the three main parties before voting rather than blindly sticking my cross in the box of a party than doesn't deserve my vote. It's my belief that politics has been ruined by this kind of tribalism and perhaps the Tory concessions to the Lib Dems are the beginning of the end for this.

Personally I was a Lib Dem voter before Cameron took the conservative party to the centre and Labour tried their best to take away personal responsibility and accountability from the individual. Very pleased with the coalition, just hope it works.

[Guest Bilo]

Personally I was a Lib Dem voter before Cameron took the conservative party to the centre and Labour tried their best to take away personal responsibility and accountability from the individual. Very pleased with the coalition, just hope it works.

That's fair enough but I've yet to see a word of criticism of the Tories as a whole or Cameron himself. It certainly comes across as party political. Much as the other posters I mentioned showing a stubborn refusal to admit anything that has come from the Lib Dems and the Tories during the election campaign is of any use to anyone.

For the record, you aren't the worst offender of the three in my opinion and I agree with you that this coalition looks as though it will be the best possible outcome from a hung parliament. Certainly more so than the Progressive/Rainbow coalition that would have lasted five minutes at best when the Lib Dems realise their belief in personal freedoms and responsibility are at odds with Labour's penchant for big government, not to mention the fact they'd have had to bribe Plaid Cymru and the SNP half to death to get them on board.

[Daggers]

I used to think this was somewhere you could express opinions without personal abuse but apparently not anymore.

[Head Honcho]

That's fair enough but I've yet to see a word of criticism of the Tories as a whole or Cameron himself. It certainly comes across as party political. Much as the other posters I mentioned showing a stubborn refusal to admit anything that has come from the Lib Dems and the Tories during the election campaign is of any use to anyone.

For the record, you aren't the worst offender of the three in my opinion and I agree with you that this coalition looks as though it will be the best possible outcome from a hung parliament. Certainly more so than the Progressive/Rainbow coalition that would have lasted five minutes at best when the Lib Dems realise their belief in personal freedoms and responsibility are at odds with Labour's penchant for big government, not to mention the fact they'd have had to bribe Plaid Cymru and the SNP half to death to get them on board.

Just about sums it up

Anyway we have more important things to worry about

Come on Leicester

[l444ry]

Question for you. Why would giving £17bn to the people of the country to spend be worse for the economy than the government spending the £17bn? Is it not a bit arrogant to assume that the government can spend the £17bn better than taxpayers?

I'm not saying it is worse. I wish Labour had adopted the policy actually. The post you quote and try to ridicule was a response to Webbo, who had queried the cost of implementation.

I'd say it was arrogant to pre-judge a post without feeling the need to get it in context!!

[FoxyPV]

How much will power be a factor in keeping the Liberals in govt? How many of them will sell their souls to stay in power?

It's the first time they have been in power for nearly a century (excluding WWII).

I can't see them throwing away power too easily and being in coalition may destroy them at the next election (some time within the next year)

Didn't want to start a new topic for this.

[l444ry]

Labour have been making my skin crawl for a decade, get used to it.

I used to think this was somewhere you could express opinions without personal abuse but apparently not anymore.

Don't worry about it, Jon. At least you haven't been called a Biased Party Politico who spouts hate-filled cancer. And that's only from the posters who like to think they're non-political and above it all!!!

[Guest DavidJCW]

He'll still continue as an MP.

It will interesting to see how the public react to it because it is so unusual in British politics.

Er, hello, I cleared that all up.

Brown has GONE. He's left politics, there's going to be a by-election in his constituency and someone else will take his place as a back-bencher.

[FoxyPV]

Er, hello, I cleared that all up.

Brown has GONE. He's left politics, there's going to be a by-election in his constituency and someone else will take his place as a back-bencher.

Apologies. didn't read that post

[purpleronnie]

I was intially happy being a Lib Dem fan that they now have some say, but the fact its with the tories makes me wonder if I would prefer a Labour government.

[Jon the Hat]

Er, hello, I cleared that all up.

Brown has GONE. He's left politics, there's going to be a by-election in his constituency and someone else will take his place as a back-bencher.

Sky and BBC seem to think he is staying on as a backbencher for now.