Barclay Promoted

[purpleronnie]

Why not contact the club airing your views rather than some crappy online petition.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Why not contact the club airing your views rather than some crappy online petition.

1 coherent communication = 100 signatures on a bit of paper/people pressing a button

[Guest Bilo]

In all fairness, it was a half-serious suggestion rather than anything else. I'm not even sure what wording a petition could contain; after all I doubt his promotion could be revoked unless any specific incident occurs during next season.

The point about the club not releasing the news on social networks is interesting however. It's either a genuine oversight, not considered 'newsworthy' enough for them to publicise on Facebook or most controversially, they're fully aware of the thoughts and feelings towards Barclay and don't want the embarrassment of those views being aired on such a public forum.

If the latter is true, there is a rather worrying culture of cronyism behind the scenes at Filbert Way, one that trumps even the views of fans.

[TornadoShaunUK]

Haven't posted on here in a while (I usually use Talkingballs) but feel I had to give my 'educated' opinion on this, and that is that if people weren't breaking the rules in the first place then he'd have nothing to hassle people about. In short, if you buy a ticket you are agreeing to obide by the club's safety regulations and such and this includes not standing amongst other things. Football is not like it was in the 70s, and indeed it's probably typical of life in general, for instance your workplace might well be more safety orientated than it was many years ago. Sorry but that's my two cents, as an earlier post hinted at, there is a bigger picture to consider.

[purpleronnie]

Maybe some people think rules are unfair and should be railed against rather than accepting everything.

[Simmo86]

Haven't posted on here in a while (I usually use Talkingballs) but feel I had to give my 'educated' opinion on this, and that is that if people weren't breaking the rules in the first place then he'd have nothing to hassle people about. In short, if you buy a ticket you are agreeing to obide by the club's safety regulations and such and this includes not standing amongst other things. Football is not like it was in the 70s, and indeed it's probably typical of life in general, for instance your workplace might well be more safety orientated than it was many years ago. Sorry but that's my two cents, as an earlier post hinted at, there is a bigger picture to consider.

Tell me whats unsafe about standing up at a football match?

[The Doctor]

Haven't posted on here in a while (I usually use Talkingballs) but feel I had to give my 'educated' opinion on this, and that is that if people weren't breaking the rules in the first place then he'd have nothing to hassle people about. In short, if you buy a ticket you are agreeing to obide by the club's safety regulations and such and this includes not standing amongst other things. Football is not like it was in the 70s, and indeed it's probably typical of life in general, for instance your workplace might well be more safety orientated than it was many years ago. Sorry but that's my two cents, as an earlier post hinted at, there is a bigger picture to consider.

I'd like to think so but look at banko71's story on the other page - He didn't break any rules, neither did his son yet both got banned.

Also there is nothing dangerous about standing at a football match.

[sbfox]

Tell me whats unsafe about standing up at a football match?

There's nothing inherently unsafe about standing, its more the point that when you buy a ticket at LCFC, you agree that you will remain seated in your designated seat. Its really that simple.

Yeah, Barclay goes about his job like a tool and seem to renege on what he says, but ultimately, he is just enforcing the club's H&S procedure.

[TornadoShaunUK]

Tell me whats unsafe about standing up at a football match?

Well I'd have thought it would be pretty obvious, and that's the risk of people falling over. It's also pretty irritating if you happen to be sat behind someone who is intent on standing up during the game. Whether you like it or not doesn't really matter, these regulations are not just applicable to Leicester City FC either, it' a nationwide thing that I guess you could say has come about during the 'evolution' of the game thanks to incidents like Hillsboro'.

As a counter-question, I'd ask you what is so good about standing up that you can't do sitting down?

[The Doctor]

Well I'd have thought it would be pretty obvious, and that's the risk of people falling over. It's also pretty irritating if you happen to be sat behind someone who is intent on standing up during the game. Whether you like it or not doesn't really matter, these regulations are not just applicable to Leicester City FC either, it' a nationwide thing that I guess you could say has come about during the 'evolution' of the game thanks to incidents like Hillsboro'.

As a counter-question, I'd ask you what is so good about standing up that you can't do sitting down?

only in the top two divisions - why is it safe in L1 but not in the championship?

and standing and quality of atmosphere go hand in hand - the more people standing the better the atmosphere.

[MPH]

Haven't posted on here in a while (I usually use Talkingballs) but feel I had to give my 'educated' opinion on this, and that is that if people weren't breaking the rules in the first place then he'd have nothing to hassle people about. In short, if you buy a ticket you are agreeing to obide by the club's safety regulations and such and this includes not standing amongst other things. Football is not like it was in the 70s, and indeed it's probably typical of life in general, for instance your workplace might well be more safety orientated than it was many years ago. Sorry but that's my two cents, as an earlier post hinted at, there is a bigger picture to consider.

If i remember correctly... there is no law that says standing is band from grounds.. the government have issued guidelines but there is no Law.

The Club have chosen to misintepret the guidelines and enforce something that doesn't actually need enforcing.... An educated person (IE not Kevin Barclay) will look at the hillsorough disaster and realize that the deaths were not caused by standing but by the thousands of extra fans who were let in to the area who didn't have tickets. anyway... thats a different discussion for a different thread.

in short, Barclay is a tool.

[Jon the Hat]

only in the top two divisions - why is it safe in L1 but not in the championship?

and standing and quality of atmosphere go hand in hand - the more people standing the better the atmosphere.

You do see that this is not a question of the club or of Barclay setting the rules though right? And it is in the clubs interests to try to enforce the rules as best they can??

[Jon the Hat]

If i remember correctly... there is no law that says standing is band from grounds.. the government have issued guidelines but there is no Law.

The Club have chosen to misintepret the guidelines and enforce something that doesn't actually need enforcing.... An educated person (IE not Kevin Barclay) will look at the hillsorough disaster and realize that the deaths were not caused by standing but by the thousands of extra fans who were let in to the area who didn't have tickets. anyway... thats a different discussion for a different thread.

in short, Barclay is a tool.

All clubs has misinterpreted then? It is possible that they understand exactly what is intended, are reminded by the safety committee (police etc) and have little room to move on this?

[The Doctor]

You do see that this is not a question of the club or of Barclay setting the rules though right? And it is in the clubs interests to try to enforce the rules as best they can??

yes & yes however barclay goes too far with regards to crowd control.

[MPH]

You do see that this is not a question of the club or of Barclay setting the rules though right? And it is in the clubs interests to try to enforce the rules as best they can??

But that's the point. there is no rule. its a guideline, which is something completely different.

[Simmo86]

Well I'd have thought it would be pretty obvious, and that's the risk of people falling over. It's also pretty irritating if you happen to be sat behind someone who is intent on standing up during the game. Whether you like it or not doesn't really matter, these regulations are not just applicable to Leicester City FC either, it' a nationwide thing that I guess you could say has come about during the 'evolution' of the game thanks to incidents like Hillsboro'.

As a counter-question, I'd ask you what is so good about standing up that you can't do sitting down?

Can't say I ever seen anybody fall over just standing up at a football match, but agree with you on standing up in front of someone you is sitting down, that is out of order.

Making all seating unreserved would help this though

[TornadoShaunUK]

and standing and quality of atmosphere go hand in hand - the more people standing the better the atmosphere.

Somehow I don't think the reasoning you give is going to wash with anyone. What creates a good atmosphere? singing? you can do that whilst seated.......

Matchday safety has precedence over atmosphere.

[MPH]

All clubs has misinterpreted then? It is possible that they understand exactly what is intended, are reminded by the safety committee (police etc) and have little room to move on this?

not all clubs- only the top two divisions. if it was a law then all teams would have to abide by it.

Lets remember this has come out of an incident in a cup game. its entirely feasible for a team from the lower two divisions to draw man utd ect at home in a cup game, completely sell out and have more people try to get in to a standing area.

[The Doctor]

Somehow I don't think the reasoning you give is going to wash with anyone. What creates a good atmosphere? singing? you can do that whilst seated.......

Matchday safety has precedence over atmosphere.

Flipping the question around - what's so great about sitting?

Granted I'm a bit of a cynic but it isn't really about matchday safety, it's about control and they can control what the fans present do easier when the fans are sat. I'd imagine that's why standing is fine in L1 and below, because the crowd sizes are smaller and they can control the fans without needing them to sit down.

[purpleronnie]

Like I said some people dont believe stadium rules are necessarily fair and if a group of fans want to stand without hindering others they thats fine with me, a little common sense wouldnt go amiss.

And there isnt a stadium in the world where a good atmosphere is generated whilst sitting down, singing and standing go hand in hand you know that.

[Guest Bilo]

Or perhaps we're adult enough to accept rules are there for a reason, but there are ways of enforcing those rules without having a detrimental effect on the enjoyment of supporters.

I'll put my hands up. I don't envy Barclay's job. He'll always be the villain for somebody a few times a season no matter what he does, enforcing H&S rules is a thankless task. However, there are ways of performing such duties that do not entail becoming a killjoy.

Firstly on the issue of standing, fans standing is a reality at all 92 Premiership and Football League grounds in England & Wales. The scale may vary, but every all-seater ground WILL have at least pockets of standers. How many grounds have lost their safety certificate and therefore right to admit spectators since the Taylor Report was published because of standing? I'll give you a clue, it's less than one. This is because the club is already fulfilling its legal obligation by providing seating accomodation for all spectators, how this is enforced is the responsibility of the club. The opportunity for a laissez-faire approach to standing exists, see Selhurst Park on most matchdays and Elland Road for a major game for examples, but Barclay has always actively chosen not to implement it. Why? Not because of safety, but because of control and a personal crusade to sanitise the matchday experience at our ground. The highest risk of injury comes during goal celebrations, I myself have nursed many a bruised shin after a goal, but is banning everything bar seated applause for a goal practical? Is it shit.

Secondly, the punishment process for breaches of ground regulations are often arbitrary, unaccountable and unfair. Barclay has an alleged history of pursuing unprofessional personal vendettas as already alluded to on this thread, and excessive bans often result. Five match bans for sitting in the wrong seat, four game extension for appealing an already existing ban and access denied to the stadium for the wearing of a particular scarf seem harsh? I've seen all of these happen to friends this season. If you appeal you seldom have a leg to stand on, as any evidence you wish to see is either conveniently 'lost' or destroyed thereby removing any hope of a fair hearing. Then there's the N Block incident of a few years ago, where Barclay promised to support a singing section and then rescinded on said promise with lengthy bans handed out to the organisers.

The man entrusted with the fans' safety on match days is not a man to be trusted by the fans, that's why his promotion is such a disappointment. His position is an unenviable one granted, but he makes it harder for himself by using it to wield power and control rather than take a more softly-softly approach that would increase the fans' enjoyment and decrease their animosity towards him considerably.

[Simmo86]

Somehow I don't think the reasoning you give is going to wash with anyone. What creates a good atmosphere? singing? you can do that whilst seated.......

Matchday safety has precedence over atmosphere.

Not very well though.

[Poakey]

Somehow I don't think the reasoning you give is going to wash with anyone. What creates a good atmosphere? singing? you can do that whilst seated.......

Matchday safety has precedence over atmosphere.

Once again, standing up at a football match is not dangerous.

[Simmo86]

Or perhaps we're adult enough to accept rules are there for a reason, but there are ways of enforcing those rules without having a detrimental effect on the enjoyment of supporters.

I'll put my hands up. I don't envy Barclay's job. He'll always be the villain for somebody a few times a season no matter what he does, enforcing H&S rules is a thankless task. However, there are ways of performing such duties that do not entail becoming a killjoy.

Firstly on the issue of standing, fans standing is a reality at all 92 Premiership and Football League grounds in England & Wales. The scale may vary, but every all-seater ground WILL have at least pockets of standers. How many grounds have lost their safety certificate and therefore right to admit spectators since the Taylor Report was published because of standing? I'll give you a clue, it's less than one. This is because the club is already fulfilling its legal obligation by providing seating accomodation for all spectators, how this is enforced is the responsibility of the club. The opportunity for a laissez-faire approach to standing exists, see Selhurst Park on most matchdays and Elland Road for a major game for examples, but Barclay has always actively chosen not to implement it. Why? Not because of safety, but because of control and a personal crusade to sanitise the matchday experience at our ground. The highest risk of injury comes during goal celebrations, I myself have nursed many a bruised shin after a goal, but is banning everything bar seated applause for a goal practical? Is it shit.

Secondly, the punishment process for breaches of ground regulations are often arbitrary, unaccountable and unfair. Barclay has an alleged history of pursuing unprofessional personal vendettas as already alluded to on this thread, and excessive bans often result. Five match bans for sitting in the wrong seat, four game extension for appealing an already existing ban and access denied to the stadium for the wearing of a particular scarf seem harsh? I've seen all of these happen to friends this season. If you appeal you seldom have a leg to stand on, as any evidence you wish to see is either conveniently 'lost' or destroyed thereby removing any hope of a fair hearing. Then there's the N Block incident of a few years ago, where Barclay promised to support a singing section and then rescinded on said promise with lengthy bans handed out to the organisers.

The man entrusted with the fans' safety on match days is not a man to be trusted by the fans, that's why his promotion is such a disappointment. His position is an unenviable one granted, but he makes it harder for himself by using it to wield power and control rather than take a more softly-softly approach that would increase the fans' enjoyment and decrease their animosity towards him considerably.

Nail on head for me!

[MPH]

its really not rocket science...... have a standing area. set the capacity. dont sell any more tickets.

whats so difficult about that?