Barclay Promoted

[davieG]

Where did you conjure up the 100%? That is utter garbage.

Where did you conjure up the 100%? That is utter garbage

[Bellend Sebastian]

Of course you have a choice you can say no, if the club want to eject 100's of fans each home game, I would like to see it.

That would be exciting, I agree

[anotherharboroughfox]

Where did you conjure up the 100%? That is utter garbage

[sbfox]

No I didn't, I agreed to not persistently stand. Now define persistent standing cause not even **** arse Barclay can do that, so technically doesn't know what rules he is trying to enforce.

If you want to stand up for the 90 minutes, then yeah, you are persistently standing. Think its pretty simple really, no?

[Poakey]

If you want to stand up for the 90 minutes, then yeah, you are persistently standing. Think its pretty simple really, no?

Not when you sit down at ht

[purpleronnie]

Where did you conjure up the 100%? That is utter garbage.

I meant all the fans who already stand there.

[lcfc"weasel"]

If you want to stand up for the 90 minutes, then yeah, you are persistently standing. Think its pretty simple really, no?

So if I sit down for 1 minute during the game I'm not persistently standing?

[Guest Bilo]

Don't be giving weasel ideas.

[Fosse Boy]

If you want to stand up for the 90 minutes, then yeah, you are persistently standing. Think its pretty simple really, no?

Kevin Barclay could not come up with a definition so your guess is as good as mine.

[lcfc"weasel"]

Don't be giving weasel ideas.

What?

[filbertway]

It's certainly not rocket science. If by that you are referring to the fact that standing only areas are utterly unsafe, probably more so than standing in seating areas. Because there is less space the potential for crushing and such I'd say is rather high.

It's absolutely definitely not "Utterly unsafe".

After a match everyone pours out of the stadium at the same time, all those people standing and walking in such close proximity isn't classed as utterly unsafe. The club aren't letting people out block by block for their safety.

How about the tube in London, commuters cramming on to trains and waiting for trains. Again there aren't people getting injured left right and centre.

At a music gig or festival, again, thousands of people will be crammed into a small space. Admittedly in the mosh pits you'll get injured people, but that's of their own choice. Again though, most people manage to get by and not get injured or die.

So why do you think that is it so utterly a ludicrous concept that fans can stand and watch their team play for 90 minutes without the situation being described as "utterly unsafe"?

[Guest Bilo]

The idea that standing areas are 'utterly unsafe' is not one that is grounded in any reality, by now that should be obvious. The Taylor Report itself said standing is not intrinsically unsafe, there is currently a motion going through Parliament to legalise small safe standing areas again and Germany and Austria have had them for years. Nobody is calling for the terraces of old to be reinstated. I love atmosphere and am something of a traditionalist where that is concerned, but the idea of standing in somebody else's urine on a 1930s terrace surrounded by rusting steel fences doesn't appeal to me, and I doubt it appeals to anybody seriously calling for the reintroduction of terracing. The problem with the Taylor Report is that it made false assumptions at the time, chiefly that supporters would become 'accustomed' to or 'educated' into seating at all times as the reality of all-seaters became part and parcel of the game. This patently hasn't happened when we see the number of standers in the game today so the recommendation for all-seater stadia was clearly the wrong path to take. Furthermore, the report was published before significant developments in terrace design and management were made. Had these developments already been made before Lord Justice Taylor commissioned his report, the recommendations may well have been very different and we could well have standing areas in English football today. My view in light of the failure of the all-seater experiment, which is exactly what it was seeing as football had had terraced accommodation since the foundation of the Football League over 100 years previously, is a new public report that will investigate all of the alternatives and material facts garnered through real experience in Britain and abroad.

That though appears to be the only idea of terracing that the pro all-seater lobby have in their mindset, and if they remain utterly close minded to the modern reality of terracing of course they're going to think terracing unsafe, because frankly they weren't far wrong. There were too many crumbling stadia in England and Europe and the culture of the authorities was towards containment and control rather than safety and comfort. Hillsborough has been dealt with on here many times, the fact that it was a standing area was fairly inconsequential and I daresay that a seated area overcrowded to the same extent because of police negligence would have seen a similar death toll.

Terracing now though has changed. We now see stands that switch between seating and standing within a matter of hours, are clean, safe and secure and generate amazing atmospheres. How many people would want to be a part of this for example?

This is not an unsafe ground. It will host Champions League football next season and has already hosted a World Cup semi-final in 2006. No deaths, no serious injuries. A perfectly safe terrace. These can be found all over Germany.

Allianz Arena, Munich.

Convertible standing/seating area for UEFA and FIFA games. Seats fold flush into the floor for Bundesliga and can be just as quickly brought back for UEFA games and internationals as per FIFA requirements.

Combi seating with seat attached to the safety rail ready to be used as and when it is required, seats normally locked into the frame for Bundesliga games and unlocked for UEFA and FIFA games.

[The Doctor]

While I agree Bilo, those that still hold the misguided belief that hillsborough was a result of standing will not take images and reports about modern safe standing areas as proof of standing being safe.

One of the main problems we face with attempts to bring standing back to this country is that this nation's fans have a bit of a reputation of being hooligans and, while over the past two decades or so, that reputation has diminshed quite a bit it still rears it's head on occasion, in paticular in international tournaments or european club tournaments when more attention is paid to the behaviour of fans.

So long as that reputation refuses to be shaken completely, even though sometimes the fans aren't really at fault, we will struggle for any safe standing push to be given fair consideration.

This isn't helped by the fact that the diminishment of that reputation has co-incided with the introduction of the recommendations from the taylor report which will support the views of those who believe standing is intrisically unsafe despite the number of standing relating incidents in league 1, league 2 & the conference suggesting that there is no link between the two.

[Bilbo]

After reading the sort of dribble Tornadoshaunuk and Dangerous Tiger spout I'm starting to miss the posts about Ricardo, Fryatt and Leicester and the North.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

After reading the sort of dribble Tornadoshaunuk and Dangerous Tiger spout I'm starting to miss the posts about Ricardo, Fryatt and Leicester and the North.

[/quote

You appear to be yet another half brained idiot. .

On 1st July 1971, SIXTY SIX PEOPLE DIED, AND OVER TWO HUNDRED WERE INJURED AT IBROX. This was caused by someone falling, when .exiting the terraces. They died of Compressive Asphysia.The official investigation into the accident, resulted in the Celtic stadium being made all seater, for reasons of SAFETY!

All seater, for your information, means that people are supposed to sit, you ignorant plank, for Health and Safety reasons, as demonstrated above., but I very much doubt , that you, and the other brain dead morons can understand this.

You will, I know, just carry on being minority nit wits.

[purpleronnie]

You appear to be yet another half brained idiot. .

On 1st July 1971, SIXTY SIX PEOPLE DIED, AND OVER TWO HUNDRED WERE INJURED AT IBROX. This was caused by someone falling, when .exiting the terraces. They died of Compressive Asphysia.The official investigation into the accident, resulted in the Celtic stadium being made all seater, for reasons of SAFETY!

All seater, for your information, means that people are supposed to sit, you ignorant plank, for Health and Safety reasons, as demonstrated above., but I very much doubt , that you, and the other brain dead morons can understand this.

You will, I know, just carry on being minority nit wits.

It was made all seater so they could regulate how many people were inside the stadium, so how does that disaster (which happend outside the stadium) relate to people standing behind the seats?

I Love how you calls 'us' a minority, as if that somehow a bad thing And the fact its not even true is even funnier.

[davieG]

You appear to be yet another half brained idiot. .

On 1st July 1971, SIXTY SIX PEOPLE DIED, AND OVER TWO HUNDRED WERE INJURED AT IBROX. This was caused by someone falling, when .exiting the terraces. They died of Compressive Asphysia.The official investigation into the accident, resulted in the Celtic stadium being made all seater, for reasons of SAFETY!

All seater, for your information, means that people are supposed to sit, you ignorant plank, for Health and Safety reasons, as demonstrated above., but I very much doubt , that you, and the other brain dead morons can understand this.

You will, I know, just carry on being minority nit wits.

But the actual problem was caused by the exit stairs collapsing, nothing to do with standing, people have to exit whether they are sitting or standing. It was exacerbated by people leaving early, hearing a goal being scored and trying to get back in, It was probably made worse by a poorly maintained/designed stadium. Are we going to ban people from leaving early in case someone scores a late goal?

It seems to me the authorities reviewing these events feel they have to do something and all seater stadium was the easy option as not only does it shift the blame onto the supporters it allows the authorities to achieve control of the people a trend we are seeing in all aspects of life these days.

Even the aspect of control is flawed, they say it helps them to know where people are sitting but this only applies to ST holders any tickets bought on the day are not monitored or registered with the fans name and address.

When standing was allowed any potential danger was almost totally down to clubs allowing the terraces to be overcrowded in the pursuit of extra income which they rarely if ever spent on improving the stadiums.

[Bilbo]

But the actual problem was caused by the exit stairs collapsing, nothing to do with standing, people have to exit whether they are sitting or standing. It was exacerbated by people leaving early, hearing a goal being scored and trying to get back in, It was probably made worse by a poorly maintained/designed stadium. Are we going to ban people from leaving early in case someone scores a late goal?

It seems to me the authorities reviewing these events feel they have to do something and all seater stadium was the easy option as not only does it shift the blame onto the supporters it allows the authorities to achieve control of the people a trend we are seeing in all aspects of life these days.

Even the aspect of control is flawed, they say it helps them to know where people are sitting but this only applies to ST holders any tickets bought on the day are not monitored or registered with the fans name and address.

When standing was allowed any potential danger was almost totally down to clubs allowing the terraces to be overcrowded in the pursuit of extra income which they rarely if ever spent on improving the stadiums.

Thank you Davie G you saved me the trouble.

@ Dangerous Tiger - Unfortunately my friend you'll find that you are in the minority and as for calling me "half brained" that is rich coming from someone who said they would "down" someone that stood up in front of them. Strange that you think standing at a football match is the worst crime in history but violence is fine.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

But the actual problem was caused by the exit stairs collapsing, nothing to do with standing, people have to exit whether they are sitting or standing. It was exacerbated by people leaving early, hearing a goal being scored and trying to get back in, It was probably made worse by a poorly maintained/designed stadium. Are we going to ban people from leaving early in case someone scores a late goal?

It seems to me the authorities reviewing these events feel they have to do something and all seater stadium was the easy option as not only does it shift the blame onto the supporters it allows the authorities to achieve control of the people a trend we are seeing in all aspects of life these days.

Even the aspect of control is flawed, they say it helps them to know where people are sitting but this only applies to ST holders any tickets bought on the day are not monitored or registered with the fans name and address.

When standing was allowed any potential danger was almost totally down to clubs allowing the terraces to be overcrowded in the pursuit of extra income which they rarely if ever spent on improving the stadiums.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Sorry, but you are WRONG, \D\AVIE G.. The original conclusion was that this happened, but that was found to be incorrect. The final finding officially stated that this was NOT the cause, as people were moving in the SAME direction,when somebody fell on the terraces, near the top of the exit.

The ground WAS MADE ALL SEATER IN THE AFTERMATH OF THIS DISASTER. Check it out.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Thank you Davie G you saved me the trouble.

@ Dangerous Tiger - Unfortunately my friend you'll find that you are in the minority and as for calling me "half brained" that is rich coming from someone who said they would "down" someone that stood up in front of them. Strange that you think standing at a football match is the worst crime in history but violence is fine.

Davie G was wrong, moron,, and that makes you wrong too.

[Guest Bilo]

Sorry, but you are WRONG. The original conclusion was that this happened, but that was found to be incorrect. The final finding officially stated that this was NOT the cause, as people were moving in the SAME direction.

The ground WAS MADE ALL SEATER IN THE AFTERMATH OF THIS DISASTER.

The disaster occurred on an ageing, poorly designed and poorly maintained flight of stairs. It did not happen on the terrace, it happened as people were leaving the stand. In all probability the disaster would still have happened if plastic seats had been bolted onto the old terrace, seeing as the type of accommodation had nothing to do with happened.

Again, the point is moot. A poorly maintained seated stand will always be more dangerous than a well-maintained, modern terrace. It's to do with design and management. Don't forget that the Bradford fire of 1985 happened in a largely seated wooden stand, and that most of the fatalities from that tragedy were in the seated area at the back of the stand where the fire started. Those on the concrete terrace at the front were much more likely to escape as they had only a small wall to jump to get onto the pitch.

Does this disaster mean seated accomodation should be banned as it's harder to escape from in case of fire? Of course it doesn't, a very specific set of circumstances led to that disaster just as they did at Ibrox in 1971 and Hillsborough in 1989.

[MPH]

Sorry, but you are WRONG, \D\AVIE G.. The original conclusion was that this happened, but that was found to be incorrect. The final finding officially stated that this was NOT the cause, as people were moving in the SAME direction,when somebody fell on the terraces, near the top of the exit.

The ground WAS MADE ALL SEATER IN THE AFTERMATH OF THIS DISASTER. Check it out.

As many spectators began to make their way out, Jimmy Johnstone, the smallest player in the Celtic side, popped up in the Rangers box to score with an improbable header. An ear-numbing roar of acclaim erupted from the green ranks on the west terracings.

Yet, astoundingly in the few seconds that remained, Rangers won a free-kick from which Colin Stein steered home the equaliser. Now it was the fans in blue who were convulsed with rapture as they turned for home, tens of thousands fading into the black mist around Stairway 13.

In the next few moments someone stumbled and fell on its steps and, in an instant, the press of humanity became a toxic crush. The breath of life was literally squeezed, gasp by excruciating gasp, from 66 people, among them the five boys from Markinch and little Nigel Pickup.

At least 145 were injured. Some, like Ian Loch, lived to tell a horrific tale of the shambles on Stairway 13.

.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/8230503/The-Ibrox-Disaster-of-January-2-1971-which-claimed-66-lives-was-a-tragedy-waiting-to-happen.html

they fell on the STEPS, moron. eye witness account that appeared in the telegraph. that well known tabloid that makes things up.

can you find us this account that states it was not the steps? Because this eye witness, who was in the ground and in the end where the disaster took place and was in the middle of it all categorically states it WAS the steps....

[purpleronnie]

Is DANGEROUS TIGER on a wind-up?

[Dan]

Can someone please ban the disabled that is Dangerous Tiger.

He's either on a constant wind-up, or is just a total brain-dead disabled.

And I wouldn't be surprised if it was both.