Leicestershire Police Authority duo call for capital punishment

[davieG]

If we're going down this route surely it needs to be all or nothing why is a child considered more important than an 18 year old or anyone else for that matter I just don't see the logic. As a parent would I be less affected by the death of 'child' than I would of an 18 year old son or daughter, I think not.

So on that basis alone this campaign is flawed.

[Guest MattP]

How on earth are the far-right being blamed here?

As for the costs? Well thats depends where you are, dont think it costs the Chinese much to administer it.

The vast majority of capital punishment carried out on the planet these days in under the eyes of the most far-left administions on the planet.

One thing Finnegan did have right is that most victims of this sort of crime, the families would rather see the murderer suffer for the rest of his life in prison rather than receive a quick easy way out, the problem of course with this is that no one actually seems to serve that anymore, instead recieve rather pathetic sentances then can see them back into society 7 years after delibrately planning to take someones life.

If one of my family were a victim to it as punishment I'd rather see.

Life in prison > Death Penalty....

but also....

Death penalty > 7-15 years in prison.

Harsh I know, but the thought of knowing that person is on the way out to enjoy the rest of thier life while your daughter is a skeleton in ground doesnt even make your own life worth living as much as you try to.

All about finding a middle ground, if you become so ridiculously Liberal people will get so pissed off you might end up with something even more ridiculously barbaric in the future.

That said in extreme cases the death penalty wouldnt bother me, it would have to be mass murder, intention of mass murder with no remote chance of rehabilitation though. You would be talking along the lines of the guy who tried to blow up an airliner, or David Copeland style people.....

[Nick]

If prisons were like the Shawshank redemption then I'd agree, but is a comfy bed, healthy nutritious food and Sky TV really going to make murderers suffer?

You know nothing, less than nothing. If you even knew that you knew nothing it would be a start but you don't. (There is no prize for naming for the film)

You have never been to or in a prison that houses A classification prisoners.

I know this because of your description above.

I have spent much time in these environments.

Stop reading tabloid newspapers or listening to those who do - it's making you look silly.

Sorry.

[acooling08]

Fucking crackers.

Intolerant of my beliefs are we?

You know nothing, less than nothing. If you even knew that you knew nothing it would be a start but you don't. (There is no prize for naming for the film)

You have never been to or in a prison that houses A classification prisoners.

I know this because of your description above.

I have spent much time in these environments.

Stop reading tabloid newspapers or listening to those who do - it's making you look silly.

Sorry.

So do murderers actually get more than 20 years like the tabloids say?

[Daggers]

I do realise you've put want in italic however. A person being in prison now days hardly suffer. They have TVs, playstations, xbox, snooker tables etc.

Our punishment system is great

A friend of mine got sent down for being very naughty. When she came out she was asked what it was like: "I went to boarding school and it wasn't as bad as that" was her opinion.

And I am moving towards the being in favour of it for repeat offenders.

Especially Labour twats armed with custard pies.

[DB11]

How is death row anymore expensive than life imprisonment ?

The cost of the apparatus and maintenance of the procedures attending on the death penalty, including Death Row, and the endless appeals and legal machinery, far outweigh the expense of maintaining in prison the tiny fraction of criminals who would otherwise be slain. A person who has been sent to death row is entitled to a ridiculous amount of appeals, which cost a lot of money.

[Houdini Logic]

Luckily this will never happen.

If it did I would leave everything and move abroad the day it was announced

[accessory]

A friend of mine got sent down for being very naughty. When she came out she was asked what it was like: "I went to boarding school and it wasn't as bad as that" was her opinion.

And I am moving towards the being in favour of it for repeat offenders.

Especially Labour twats armed with custard pies.

Probably because there were no paedo teachers or predatory classmates to worry about..

[Daggers]

The cost of the apparatus and maintenance of the procedures attending on the death penalty, including Death Row, and the endless appeals and legal machinery, far outweigh the expense of maintaining in prison the tiny fraction of criminals who would otherwise be slain. A person who has been sent to death row is entitled to a ridiculous amount of appeals, which cost a lot of money.

Doesn't mean it has to be that way here.

Can make do with one appeal and then death by tin-opener. The biggest expense would be for the after-killing cup cakes for the tea party.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Prisons. They're just like hotels you know.

When people say stuff like this, it does make me wonder where they go on holiday.

If I stayed in a hotel that was like a prison I'd be livid, Playstation or not. Imagine the Tripadvisor review! It would be scathing.

People spend far more time talking about what to do after crimes occur than what you can do to stop it in the first place, presumably because properly funding mental health provision, social services, addressing social inequality etc etc etc is a much less fun subject than shouting KILL THE BAD MAN over and over again. It's almost as if no-one's interested in stopping crime, they just want to be made to feel better about it when it happens.

Perhaps we've abandoned hope. It's tempting, isn't it?

[Daggers]

Prisons. They're just like hotels you know.

When people say stuff like this, it does make me wonder where they go on holiday.

If I stayed in a hotel that was like a prison I'd be livid, Playstation or not. Imagine the Tripadvisor review! It would be scathing.

People spend far more time talking about what to do after crimes occur than what you can do to stop it in the first place, presumably because properly funding mental health provision, social services, addressing social inequality etc etc etc is a much less fun subject than shouting KILL THE BAD MAN over and over again. It's almost as if no-one's interested in stopping crime, they just want to be made to feel better about it when it happens.

Perhaps we've abandoned hope. It's tempting, isn't it?

You have to admit it'd all make for a cracking BBC Saturday night show where the public phone for the man they really want to die live on air.

The audience could all press their buttons and BANG one person explodes.

Ant & Dec or Dick & Dom, that's the only bit I'm in a quandary about.

[MikeyT]

Prisons. They're just like hotels you know.

When people say stuff like this, it does make me wonder where they go on holiday.

If I stayed in a hotel that was like a prison I'd be livid, Playstation or not. Imagine the Tripadvisor review! It would be scathing.

People spend far more time talking about what to do after crimes occur than what you can do to stop it in the first place, presumably because properly funding mental health provision, social services, addressing social inequality etc etc etc is a much less fun subject than shouting KILL THE BAD MAN over and over again. It's almost as if no-one's interested in stopping crime, they just want to be made to feel better about it when it happens.

Perhaps we've abandoned hope. It's tempting, isn't it?

Sorry, but this made me laugh. Can just imagine it. ha

[Webbo]

You have to admit it'd all make for a cracking BBC Saturday night show where the public phone for the man they really want to die live on air.

The audience could all press their buttons and BANG one person explodes.

Ant & Dec or Dick & Dom, that's the only bit I'm in a quandary about.

Lets see the lefties argue their way out of that one.

[accessory]

This is a very exciting development and I would welcome any public Q & A platform for Barbara Potter and Sundip Meghani to give some insight into the research and principles that inform the narrative of this proposal.

I would happily prepare them for such a public interview in the capacity of a 'critical friend' so that they could be clear of any political or social ramifications and the associated academic values that inform their historically, well documented perspective.

I would love to see them on 'Question Time' actually, to help further their career in politics - it did very well for 'Nick Wotshisname' afterall.

N.

Twitter was already on their case within seconds of this story seeing the light of day, as were their colleagues on the council and Labour party. I'd be very surprised if either are still police authority members at Christmas.

We abolished capital punishment for the same reason that we abolished slavery, bear-baiting, fox-hunting and other barbaric practices. It was and is WRONG - even for scumbags like Anders Breivik who would love nothing more than to be granted martyrdom through state execution.

But even if the petition reaches its target and Parliament holds a debate on the subject, I'd be surprised if the majority against restoration of the death penalty was below 200. Even many Tory MPs are opposed to it.

[accessory]

You have to admit it'd all make for a cracking BBC Saturday night show where the public phone for the man they really want to die live on air.

The audience could all press their buttons and BANG one person explodes.

Ant & Dec or Dick & Dom, that's the only bit I'm in a quandary about.

You're way too into this..

[Haydos]

You know nothing, less than nothing. If you even knew that you knew nothing it would be a start but you don't. (There is no prize for naming for the film)

You have never been to or in a prison that houses A classification prisoners.

I know this because of your description above.

I have spent much time in these environments.

Stop reading tabloid newspapers or listening to those who do - it's making you look silly.

Sorry.

So you completely ignore Ashley's post with pretty much the same content but completely take the piss out of accooling?

Did you take the chance to act like a condescending tool because of some of his previous controversial posts and thought it would be funny to try and take the piss further?

[Bellend Sebastian]

You have to admit it'd all make for a cracking BBC Saturday night show where the public phone for the man they really want to die live on air.

The audience could all press their buttons and BANG one person explodes.

Ant & Dec or Dick & Dom, that's the only bit I'm in a quandary about.

John Barrowman's Saturday Death Ho-down

Saturday, 6.15pm, BBC1

[accessory]

I think ITV made a bigger offer, though Sky have also expressed an interest.

[Bilo]

If prisons were like the Shawshank redemption then I'd agree, but is a comfy bed, healthy nutritious food and Sky TV really going to make murderers suffer?

1. Less than keeping murderers in prison for decades?

2. It's more about revenge and justice imo, for the relatives of the victim. And I take your point about how the deterrant factor is insignificant at best in the US. But when we had capital punishment in the 1960's, our society was one hell of a better one than it is today!

3. It's easy to implement a law along the lines of 'prison unless 100% sure of guilt, e.g. proven by DNA evidence'

4. Did it? Public opinion polls suggest a 50/50 split or sometimes even a majority support for Capital punishment. And yes you're right, ALL other countries that use the death penalty like the USA and Japan are fucking backward aren't they?

1. Yes. Read the links than Finnegan posted on the first page. The costs of maintaining the equipment for execution, the security, the counselling required for those about to die are enormous. Not to mention the legal costs of the inevitable appeals. It's not as simple as sentencing a prisoner to death on the Friday and them being executed on the Monday either, some spend decades on death row.

2. 'It's more about revenge.' Vengeance is not a civilised motivation for a 21st century democracy to pursue, surely you must see that? As for our society being better in the 1960s, how can you possibly know that? Violent crime, paedophilia, rape and murder still happened; often behind closed doors.

3. The numbers of crimes with incontrovertible DNA evidence is most likely quite negligible and I daresay some of the most heinous murderers would have been convicted on other evidence, meaning that some of the people we would all agree are better off in a coffin would still end up with a life tariff under such a law. The Moors Murderers and the Yorkshire Ripper being but two examples.

4. Japan uses the death penalty very sparingly, 15 in 2008 was the highest number for 30 years, and along very specific criteria. There are nine specific points ranging from 'degree of viciousness' to degree of remorse shown. Only when all of these are satisfied can the penalty be applied. They are however widely criticised by human rights organisations in Japan and abroad. The US's policy on capital punishment is actually very controversial in the States, and statistics show that states without the death penalty have had consistently lower murder rates since 1990. Apart from those two democracies, only Belarus, India, South Korea and Israel (which has judicially executed only one criminal, Adolf Eichmann, in 63 years) retain anything like a democratic system and capital punishment. Apart from that, you're sharing a platform with such forward-thinking havens of tolerance as China, Saudi Arabia, North Korea and Iran to name but a few.

[Guest MattP]

A friend of mine got sent down for being very naughty. When she came out she was asked what it was like: "I went to boarding school and it wasn't as bad as that" was her opinion.

And I am moving towards the being in favour of it for repeat offenders.

Especially Labour twats armed with custard pies.

Had quite a few mates go in and it's not too bad at all nowadays. Its the freedom that hurts more than anything like not going down to your local to see your mates.

Problem is the ones who scream about prison being so terrible are usually champagne liberals brought up in wonderful areas (and the ones scream about it being a paradise are right wing nutjobs in decent areas), they dont seem to realise prison isnt that much different to living in a tower block on a run down council estate. Both is a shit standard of living among criminals with an everyday threat of violence, just in one of them you cant walk out into the street.

4. Japan uses the death penalty very sparingly, 15 in 2008 was the highest number for 30 years, and along very specific criteria. There are nine specific points ranging from 'degree of viciousness' to degree of remorse shown. Only when all of these are satisfied can the penalty be applied. They are however widely criticised by human rights organisations in Japan and abroad.

Japan is probably the system I would use, no surprises that the Japanese as per usual have a system not based on religion but common sense, intelligence, research and fact.

[acooling08]

So you completely ignore Ashley's post with pretty much the same content but completely take the piss out of accooling?

Did you take the chance to act like a condescending tool because of some of his previous controversial posts and thought it would be funny to try and take the piss further?

I can't even +1 this because I used them all on the Sven photoshop thread!

[Bilo]

Japan is probably the system I would use, no surprises that the Japanese as per usual have a system not based on religion but common sense, intelligence, research and fact.

If we had to have it, it does sound the most moderate system. Far more so than for example, Texas' policy of plugging in every other serious criminal to the mains.

Degree of viciousness

Motive

How the crime was committed; especially the manner in which the victim was killed.

Outcome of the crime; especially the number of victims.

Sentiments of the bereaved family members.

Impact of the crime on Japanese society.

Defendant's age (in Japan, someone is a minor until the age of 20).

Defendant's previous criminal record.

Degree of remorse shown by the defendant.

Those are the criteria apparently.

I'm still strongly opposed to the death penalty however, and there are as I've mentioned serious human rights concerns surrounding its usage.

[Guest MattP]

If we had to have it, it does sound the most moderate system. Far more so than for example, Texas' policy of plugging in every other serious criminal to the mains.

Degree of viciousness

Motive

How the crime was committed; especially the manner in which the victim was killed.

Outcome of the crime; especially the number of victims.

Sentiments of the bereaved family members.

Impact of the crime on Japanese society.

Defendant's age (in Japan, someone is a minor until the age of 20).

Defendant's previous criminal record.

Degree of remorse shown by the defendant.

Those are the criteria apparently.

I'm still strongly opposed to the death penalty however, and there are as I've mentioned serious human rights concerns surrounding its usage.

Yes like I have said previously, I would vote against the death penalty, the problem is as weaker sentencing gets more common the harder it's going to be to maintain that stance as it becomes an unfortunate case of actually wondering if the leniency of the sentence is actually more barbaric than the death penalty itself.

I would actually be happy with that used to judge it as above, even more so when it comes to number, manner and degree of remorse.

[Webbo]

Sentiments of the bereaved family members.

That is one criteria that should never be considered. You could have a sadistic rapist and murderer whose victim's family held strong religious/pacifist views and totally forgave him and on the other hand there could be someone who killed someone in a fight and whose victims family were hellbent on revenge.

There should be a uniform set of sentences based on the severity of the crime.

[Finnegan]

Re the cost: anyone who thinks we'd adopt a model more like China than the. US is a retard. We'd be exactly like the Yanks and just as flawed.