Leicestershire Police Authority duo call for capital punishment

[MikeyT]

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Leicestershire-Police-Authority-duo-capital/story-13055384-detail/story.html

Two members of Leicestershire Police Authority are backing a call to reinstate the death penalty.

Barbara Potter and Sundip Meghani, both Labour councillors in the city, have endorsed a national campaign launched by right-wing blogger Paul Staines.

Staines hopes to force a vote on the issue in parliament by gathering 100,000 signatures in support of the restoration of capital punishment for people who kill children or police officers.

Coun Potter said: "Bring it on. Give these murderers the option of the noose, the electric chair or lethal injection.

"I think the vast majority would back this campaign. People are disgusted and appalled by those who murder vulnerable people such as children, or those who work to try and protect the public, like the police."

Coun Meghani, who wrote about his support for the campaign on social networking website Twitter, said he backed the reintroduction of capital punishment for people who killed more than once.

He said: "I would have no compunction in using the death penalty on someone who kills multiple times, such as the recent massacre in Norway.

"It's a complicated issue but I'm in favour of capital punishment in some circumstances.

"I think it may be wrong to restrict the death penalty solely to the murderers of children and police, because that gives some lives more value than others. But multiple killers should be eligible for execution."

Coun Potter, who represents Hamilton, and Coun Meghani, who represents Beaumont Leys, are two of three Leicester City Council representatives on Leicestershire Police Authority.

The third, Labour councillor Lynn Senior, said she was against the death penalty in all circumstances.

Police authority chairman Barry Roper said: "It's a difficult one to call. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

"I'd like to hear all arguments on the issue before deciding."

The death penalty was abolished in 1965.

People will be able to start adding their signature to the campaign shortly, when the petition is launched on the Government's new e-petition website.

Under new Government rules, if an e-petition on its website collects 100,000 signatures it will trigger a formal Commons debate and vote in parliament.

Mr Staines, 44, who blogs under the pseudonym Guido Fawkes, is spearheading the campaign.

He said: "The support for the death penalty is much bigger than politicians realise. MPs are out of touch with the public on this issue.

"If we could get enough signatures for a parliamentary debate it would be the first time that capital punishment has been debated in parliament since the Thatcher years."

Labour MPs Keith Vaz (Leicester East) and Jon Ashworth (Leicester South) and Tory North West Leicestershire MP Andrew Bridgen all told the Mercury they were against bringing back capital punishment.

Some MPs elsewhere in the country have voiced their support for the campaign.

Philip Davies, Tory MP for Shipley, in West Yorkshire, said: "It's something where, once again, the public are a long way ahead of the politicians. I'd go further and restore it for all murderers."

Priti Patel, Tory MP for Witham, in Essex, said: "It's about time the public had a greater say on the issues that we debate."

A YouGov poll in September 2010 found 51 per cent of respondents supported the death penalty for murder, and 37 per cent opposed it.

Support for the death penalty was higher for specific crimes, such as the murder of a police officer, murder of a child or multiple murders.

A later poll, in November 2010, found 74 per cent of respondents supported the death penalty for murder in some circumstances.

Enderby resident Ray Marston, 62, said he supported the idea.

He said: "People would think twice about killing if they knew they'd lose their own lives as a result, rather than spend time in a cushy jail."

But Ian Langham, 20, of Narborough Road, Leicester, said: "It's got pros and cons.

"Killing murderers would satisfy many people's desire for revenge, but mistakes can happen."

[Alexikokopops]

Good. Fucking. Heavens.

[Finnegan]

Good. Fucking. Heavens.

I really don't know what else to say. I'll have to settle for quoting you.

"I think the vast majority would back this campaign." Thankfully not.

[Zingari]

Hanging's too good for 'em , bring back crucifixion I say

[cambridgefox]

I really don't know what else to say. I'll have to settle for quoting you.

"I think the vast majority would back this campaign." Thankfully not.

This is a tough one,its hard to say how i would feel if it was one of my family members,but if you have ever seen the touching and one of the most heart wrenching documentaries i have ever seen"fourteen days in may" about Edward Earl Johnson, who was followed and interviewed for the last 2 weeks of his life.People changing statements to get ANY conviction.Conclusion.An innocent man was executed.If you can find it on youtube etc worth a watch.

[Finnegan]

Not going to presume to know what it's like to have a family member or close friend murdered but I can't imagine, beyond immediate rage, wanting the killer to die. I'd want them to suffer inside for as long as possible to be perfectly honest.

Add to that:

1. The cost of "Death Row"

2. The fact it doesn't ACTUALLY work as a deterrent.

3. The error-margin for putting an innocent to death.

4. The fact that the morality of this country evolved beyond biblical 'eye for an eye' fucking decades ago.

The far-right can go fuck itself and stop tapping in to the primal instincts of brainwashed knuckle-draggers for support.

[Zingari]

Not going to presume to know what it's like to have a family member or close friend murdered but I can't imagine, beyond immediate rage, wanting the killer to die. I'd want them to suffer inside for as long as possible to be perfectly honest.

Add to that:

1. The cost of "Death Row"

2. The fact it doesn't ACTUALLY work as a deterrent.

3. The error-margin for putting an innocent to death.

4. The fact that the morality of this country evolved beyond biblical 'eye for an eye' fucking decades ago.

The far-right can go fuck itself and stop tapping in to the primal instincts of brainwashed knuckle-draggers for support.

don't they have the death penalty in countries that are far left ?

[Webbo]

The far-right can go fuck itself and stop tapping in to the primal instincts of brainwashed knuckle-draggers for support.

The story is about 2 labour councillors supporting this.

Also;

1. The cost of "Death Row"

How is death row anymore expensive than life imprisonment ?

[Zingari]

The story is about 2 labour councillors supporting this.

lets not let facts get in the way of a good anti right tirade

[ozleicester]

Not going to presume to know what it's like to have a family member or close friend murdered but I can't imagine, beyond immediate rage, wanting the killer to die. I'd want them to suffer inside for as long as possible to be perfectly honest.

Add to that:

1. The cost of "Death Row"

2. The fact it doesn't ACTUALLY work as a deterrent.

3. The error-margin for putting an innocent to death.

4. The fact that the morality of this country evolved beyond biblical 'eye for an eye' fucking decades ago.

The far-right can go fuck itself and stop tapping in to the primal instincts of brainwashed knuckle-draggers for support.

Apart from this...and a whole lot more, but the possibly of learning from these people to prevent future events is enough alone to make it worth while keeping them alive.

[Finnegan]

The story is about 2 labour councillors supporting this.

I'm aware. I'm also aware it's a movement started by the right.

As is nearly every movement campaigning to reinstate the Death Penalty in the UK.

[Finnegan]

How is death row anymore expensive than life imprisonment ?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/28/opinion/28mon3.html

According to the organization, keeping inmates on death row in Florida costs taxpayers $51 million a year more than holding them for life without parole. North Carolina has put 43 people to death since 1976 at $2.16 million per execution. The eventual cost to taxpayers in Maryland for pursuing capital cases between 1978 and 1999 is estimated to be $186 million for five executions.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/issues/death-penalty/us-death-penalty-facts/death-penalty-cost

A 2003 legislative audit in Kansas found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000).

http://www.deathpenalty.org/article.php?id=42

California could save $1 billion over five years by replacing the death penalty with permanent imprisonment.

California taxpayers pay $90,000 more per death row prisoner each year than on prisoners in regular confinement.

[Webbo]

I'm aware. I'm also aware it's a movement started by the right.

As is nearly every movement campaigning to reinstate the Death Penalty in the UK.

All campaigns have to be started by somebody. This isn't a left- right issue, there are left wingers in favour and right wingers against.

We're supposed to live in a democracy, the govts are supposed to reflect the views of the electorate not just dictate the opinions of the elite.

People on the left can't complain about 'stop the war' or 'anti cuts' campaigns being ignored and then demand that subjects like this shouldn't be allowed to be debated at all.

For the record I'm about 90% against capital punishment.

[Zingari]

The murder rate has nearly tripled in the UK since the abolition of the death penalty from around 6.5 homicides per million to around 18 per million.

I’m aware that there are other factors that may influence things, but the murder rate was pretty level up to this point

Added to this, some of the changing factors should have actively lowered the murder rate, such as less poverty, better heath and education etc etc

Would anyone care to enlighten me as to which other factors have contributed to the higher homicide rate , and what should be done about it so we can get back down to the homicide rates prior to 1965

I’m not claiming as an actual fact that the death penalty reduces murder rate, but I cannot see how anyone can claim as a fact that it does not.

And please don’t use that old US comparison, as it’s totally irrelevant, just as any comparison with Singapore is. Let’s try and focus on what has happened in the UK and why

[MikeyT]

What would people do with this type of person who is possibly being freed this week?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/man-jailed-over-baby-p-may-be-freed-16031642.html

[Finnegan]

What would people do with this type of person who is possibly being freed this week?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/man-jailed-over-baby-p-may-be-freed-16031642.html

See. I hate being asked questions like that.

Just because I'm against the death penalty, it doesn't mean I think we should let the perpetrators of horrendous crimes walk the streets after just a few years behind bars.

There is a middle ground.

[MikeyT]

See. I hate being asked questions like that.

Just because I'm against the death penalty, it doesn't mean I think we should let the perpetrators of horrendous crimes walk the streets after just a few years behind bars.

There is a middle ground.

Sorry

[Ashley]

I'd want them to suffer inside for as long as possible to be perfectly honest.

I do realise you've put want in italic however. A person being in prison now days hardly suffer. They have TVs, playstations, xbox, snooker tables etc.

Our punishment system is great

[Nick]

http://www.thisislei...tail/story.html

Two members of Leicestershire Police Authority are backing a call to reinstate the death penalty.

Barbara Potter and Sundip Meghani, both Labour councillors in the city, have endorsed a national campaign launched by right-wing blogger Paul Staines.

Staines hopes to force a vote on the issue in parliament by gathering 100,000 signatures in support of the restoration of capital punishment for people who kill children or police officers.

Coun Potter said: "Bring it on. Give these murderers the option of the noose, the electric chair or lethal injection.

"I think the vast majority would back this campaign. People are disgusted and appalled by those who murder vulnerable people such as children, or those who work to try and protect the public, like the police."

Coun Meghani, who wrote about his support for the campaign on social networking website Twitter, said he backed the reintroduction of capital punishment for people who killed more than once.

He said: "I would have no compunction in using the death penalty on someone who kills multiple times, such as the recent massacre in Norway.

"It's a complicated issue but I'm in favour of capital punishment in some circumstances.

"I think it may be wrong to restrict the death penalty solely to the murderers of children and police, because that gives some lives more value than others. But multiple killers should be eligible for execution."

Coun Potter, who represents Hamilton, and Coun Meghani, who represents Beaumont Leys, are two of three Leicester City Council representatives on Leicestershire Police Authority.

The third, Labour councillor Lynn Senior, said she was against the death penalty in all circumstances.

Police authority chairman Barry Roper said: "It's a difficult one to call. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

"I'd like to hear all arguments on the issue before deciding."

The death penalty was abolished in 1965.

People will be able to start adding their signature to the campaign shortly, when the petition is launched on the Government's new e-petition website.

Under new Government rules, if an e-petition on its website collects 100,000 signatures it will trigger a formal Commons debate and vote in parliament.

Mr Staines, 44, who blogs under the pseudonym Guido Fawkes, is spearheading the campaign.

He said: "The support for the death penalty is much bigger than politicians realise. MPs are out of touch with the public on this issue.

"If we could get enough signatures for a parliamentary debate it would be the first time that capital punishment has been debated in parliament since the Thatcher years."

Labour MPs Keith Vaz (Leicester East) and Jon Ashworth (Leicester South) and Tory North West Leicestershire MP Andrew Bridgen all told the Mercury they were against bringing back capital punishment.

Some MPs elsewhere in the country have voiced their support for the campaign.

Philip Davies, Tory MP for Shipley, in West Yorkshire, said: "It's something where, once again, the public are a long way ahead of the politicians. I'd go further and restore it for all murderers."

Priti Patel, Tory MP for Witham, in Essex, said: "It's about time the public had a greater say on the issues that we debate."

A YouGov poll in September 2010 found 51 per cent of respondents supported the death penalty for murder, and 37 per cent opposed it.

Support for the death penalty was higher for specific crimes, such as the murder of a police officer, murder of a child or multiple murders.

A later poll, in November 2010, found 74 per cent of respondents supported the death penalty for murder in some circumstances.

Enderby resident Ray Marston, 62, said he supported the idea.

He said: "People would think twice about killing if they knew they'd lose their own lives as a result, rather than spend time in a cushy jail."

But Ian Langham, 20, of Narborough Road, Leicester, said: "It's got pros and cons.

"Killing murderers would satisfy many people's desire for revenge, but mistakes can happen."

This is a very exciting development and I would welcome any public Q & A platform for Barbara Potter and Sundip Meghani to give some insight into the research and principles that inform the narrative of this proposal.

I would happily prepare them for such a public interview in the capacity of a 'critical friend' so that they could be clear of any political or social ramifications and the associated academic values that inform their historically, well documented perspective.

I would love to see them on 'Question Time' actually, to help further their career in politics - it did very well for 'Nick Wotshisname' afterall.

N.

[Bilo]

Sweet Jesus, I thought this was a wind-up.

If the 'vast majority' of the British populace would endorse a return to the Dark Ages of capital punishment, I'm fucking emigrating to somewhere a bit more civilised.

One of the very few democracies with the death penalty, the US, has one of the developed world's highest murder rates in spite of their having the death penalty so it's worked a charm there hasn't it? I like to think our society has evolved beyond the desire to kill those who have done wrong.

It's funny how the far-right demonise Muslims for supporting barbaric Sharia law (most don't by the way) yet call for the same barbarism here.

For the most abhorrent crimes, stiffer sentences in harsher prisons are the answer. Handing the likes of Ian Huntley the moral high ground through state sanctioned killing is not.

[Zingari]

I've asked this question many times and still await an answer , but I'm not overly optimistic

If the death sentence is barbaric and ineffective , then why is is written as a footnote in the Lisbon Treaty

http://euro-med.dk/?p=776

the European Union Charter, which says that there is no death penalty, and then it has a footnote, which says, "except in the case of war, riots, upheaval"—then the death penalty is possible.

How does an ineffective barbaric practice become a pragmatic alternative when the government itself is under threat ?

[acooling08]

Not going to presume to know what it's like to have a family member or close friend murdered but I can't imagine, beyond immediate rage, wanting the killer to die. I'd want them to suffer inside for as long as possible to be perfectly honest.

Add to that:

1. The cost of "Death Row"

2. The fact it doesn't ACTUALLY work as a deterrent.

3. The error-margin for putting an innocent to death.

4. The fact that the morality of this country evolved beyond biblical 'eye for an eye' fucking decades ago.

The far-right can go fuck itself and stop tapping in to the primal instincts of brainwashed knuckle-draggers for support.

If prisons were like the Shawshank redemption then I'd agree, but is a comfy bed, healthy nutritious food and Sky TV really going to make murderers suffer?

1. Less than keeping murderers in prison for decades?

2. It's more about revenge and justice imo, for the relatives of the victim. And I take your point about how the deterrant factor is insignificant at best in the US. But when we had capital punishment in the 1960's, our society was one hell of a better one than it is today!

3. It's easy to implement a law along the lines of 'prison unless 100% sure of guilt, e.g. proven by DNA evidence'

4. Did it? Public opinion polls suggest a 50/50 split or sometimes even a majority support for Capital punishment. And yes you're right, ALL other countries that use the death penalty like the USA and Japan are fucking backward aren't they?

[NeilyBoy]

Ignoring the costs involved - the whole point of a justice system is to punish people for doing something wrong. What message does it send if we resort to the same actions that we're punishing?

[acooling08]

Ignoring the costs involved - the whole point of a justice system is to punish people for doing something wrong. What message does it send if we resort to the same actions that we're punishing?

Sorry mate but I have always effing hated this argument!

The victim (child or cop in this case) does not deserve to die. The murderer on the other hand is absolutely deserving of it!

[Samilktray]

Fucking crackers.