USA

[Daggers]

UKIP?

BNP, anyone?

[ozleicester]

downgraded!

By the ratings agencies that were supporting Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, etc, the same rating companies that said these and other Financial Institutions were sound investments JUST DAYS before the whole lot collapsed in the sh*t!!!

Banks are fooked up coonts who dont understand reality and they are being influenced by rating agencies that are living in an even more unreal world.

But...all of that is irrelevant... just ask who is owed the money, who owns the "federal Reserve".. or the "world bank".

Couple of clues... Rothschild... Rockerfeller ?

[Tomassi]

Not good news for America!!

[Yojoe36]

Well, this isn't the most favoUrite time in American history is it. Maybe it's because the sky isn't it's full coloUr

[jonno24]

downgraded!

By the ratings agencies that were supporting Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, etc, the same rating companies that said these and other Financial Institutions were sound investments JUST DAYS before the whole lot collapsed in the sh*t!!!

Banks are fooked up coonts who dont understand reality and they are being influenced by rating agencies that are living in an even more unreal world.

But...all of that is irrelevant... just ask who is owed the money, who owns the "federal Reserve".. or the "world bank".

Couple of clues... Rothschild... Rockerfeller ?

Indeed the american government is pretty much run by a who's who of Goldman Sachs executives and chairmen.

Most of whome were behind the stock market collapse a few years back.

[NeilyBoy]

Sorted.

Yeah, because Lib Dem are doing a great job at pushing their ideas. <_<

I love the way people refuse to consider the world outside the three main political parties.

Like when the Greens got voted in to Brighton?

[funkyrobot]

I blame Ricardo

[Mack]

Here's how I see it.

America and the majority of Western economies have seen their major businesses transferring their manufacturing activities to Asia for the past decade or so.

In doing so for greedy profit increase shareholder dividend motives they have not only put their own communities into abject poverty but have inadvertently shifted the economic World power-base to Asia.

What you are witnessing in a change in the guard. China and India are the new economic super powers, the USA as the World's most powerful economy is toast.

Greed is good Mr Douglas??

[Steven]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention.

AAA rating gone - now "only" a AA+.

It could go down even further - a "superpower" in freefall. A Double Dip just waiting around the corner.

Where's Superman when you need him?

Probably made redundant, just like hundreds of thousands alongside him.

I am sure that something will happen soon to rally Americans to the flag.

[MC Prussian]

I am sure that something will happen soon to rally Americans to the flag.

Like invading another country for "Home Defense" reasons.

[accessory]

Iran - be afraid.

Be VERY afraid...

[dave the caveman]

If you didn't watch or read any kind of news source at all in the last five years, would you have been able to tell that we'd been through a bad recession? I'm not sure i would.

The media are sensationalising everything as per usual. Stock markets moving up and down, unemployment rising and falling, credit agencies flailing around desperately trying to convince anybody who will listen that they are not as utterly clueless as recent history suggests... it's all just noise. None of it really matters when you look at it from a sensible perspective.

[Trav Le Bleu]

If you didn't watch or read any kind of news source at all in the last five years, would you have been able to tell that we'd been through a bad recession? I'm not sure i would.

The media are sensationalising everything as per usual. Stock markets moving up and down, unemployment rising and falling, credit agencies flailing around desperately trying to convince anybody who will listen that they are not as utterly clueless as recent history suggests... it's all just noise. None of it really matters when you look at it from a sensible perspective.

Yes. My wages haven't budged in two years, no bonus this year, food prices have increased far more than normal, as has the cost of fuel (petrol, gas, electricity.) Maybe not as bad as the 70s was, but things are hardly "normal". I'm more suspicious of the fact that we're technically NOT in recession at the moment - doesn't feel like we've ever left.

[Webbo]

Here's how I see it.

America and the majority of Western economies have seen their major businesses transferring their manufacturing activities to Asia for the past decade or so.

In doing so for greedy profit increase shareholder dividend motives they have not only put their own communities into abject poverty but have inadvertently shifted the economic World power-base to Asia.

What you are witnessing in a change in the guard. China and India are the new economic super powers, the USA as the World's most powerful economy is toast.

Greed is good Mr Douglas??

You're partly right, this mainly because the west has become too expensive to manufacture most consumer goods but it's not just down to shareholder greed. Who for instance would buy a European made DVD player for £100 when you could buy a Chinese made one, just as good or better, for £20?If a manufacturing business turned it's back on cheap labour from abroad it'd be out of business in no time at all.

Also why shouldn't Asian businesses and workers get the chance to earn themselves the kind of lifestyles that we've got use to?

[Trav Le Bleu]

Here's how I see it.

America and the majority of Western economies have seen their major businesses transferring their manufacturing activities to Asia for the past decade or so.

In doing so for greedy profit increase shareholder dividend motives they have not only put their own communities into abject poverty but have inadvertently shifted the economic World power-base to Asia.

What you are witnessing in a change in the guard. China and India are the new economic super powers, the USA as the World's most powerful economy is toast.

Greed is good Mr Douglas??

I've said something similar before, which goes like this: that we pride ourselves with not having sweatshops and slaves anymore - but we DO! Just because they're not just around the corner doesn't mean a thing, they're still slaving for us.

The US has a form of internal slavery still in existance in that much of it's manufacturing is done by prisoners (who are obliged to do the work.)

Having said all that, without cheap labour then prices would rise... unless fat cats were willing to make less profit.

[dave the caveman]

Yes. My wages haven't budged in two years, no bonus this year, food prices have increased far more than normal, as has the cost of fuel (petrol, gas, electricity.) Maybe not as bad as the 70s was, but things are hardly "normal". I'm more suspicious of the fact that we're technically NOT in recession at the moment - doesn't feel like we've ever left.

I suppose it depends on what you define as normal. House prices rose nearly every month for about 30 years, hugely increasing wealth for millions of people. The recent correction has made just a tiny dent. The FTSE enjoyed a similar rise. Our currency has been among the strongest in the world for decades. GDP per capita in the UK and the USA remain among the highest in the world. While some things have increased in price, other things such as clothing and electronics have become cheaper. Foreign travel has become the norm. A three bedroom house with two cars and an assortment of modern gadgets and technology is seen as a rite of passage. We have seen a massive improvement in living standards that was always going to be unsustainable. Recently things are evening out slightly, not even in a particularly big way (to even mention "abject poverty" is absurd). Growth increases and slows, right now it is slowing. This is normality.

People seem to want all the benefits of globalisation without any of the cost, they want perpetual economic growth that outstrips inflation but aren't willing or able to commit to a perpetual increase in their own productivity, (they also don't want that problem to be solved by bringing in immigrants), they want the government to spend more on their community while cutting tax and so on. There are so many basic contradictions in a lot of these melodramatic, media produced opinions that I wonder whether people have thought for themselves at all before deciding that it must be correct.

[Mack]

I've said something similar before, which goes like this: that we pride ourselves with not having sweatshops and slaves anymore - but we DO! Just because they're not just around the corner doesn't mean a thing, they're still slaving for us.

The US has a form of internal slavery still in existance in that much of it's manufacturing is done by prisoners (who are obliged to do the work.)

Having said all that, without cheap labour then prices would rise... unless fat cats were willing to make less profit.

I think many Western countries have indigenous populations that see themselves as above many manufacturing and manual work.

For decades now we have been farming this work out to the far east.

They even take our toxic waste nowadays.

I guess the plan was to somehow keep them down whilst exploiting their population for slave labour, but it failed and now they are holding all the cards.

[Daggers]

Solution 1:

Rebrand the ratings. Just as we've made the country appear brighter by introducing an A* grade, just call the 'AAA' rating the 'AAAA' and then step the 'AA+' up to 'AAA'. Hey presto, the USA has its rating back and we can all enjoy some tea and cake.

Solution 2:

The magician slight of hand: Look over there, there are some horrible people and we are going to bomb them. Everyone forgets about the economic meltdown and goes back to talking of banning headscarves.

[Jordan]

Jordan - America needs a fresh start. Or will the US ever learn from its mistakes? Or will there ever be a true democracy on American grounds, with more than just two (dangerously alike) parties?

Do you want the short answer, or the long answer? The short answer is no. The long answer would involve the Tea Party faction creating a schism in the Republican Party, the Democratic Party using Republican tactics to frame policy debates. I'd also probably also write the word "fuck" a lot.

Solution 1:

Rebrand the ratings. Just as we've made the country appear brighter by introducing an A* grade, just call the 'AAA' rating the 'AAAA' and then step the 'AA+' up to 'AAA'. Hey presto, the USA has its rating back and we can all enjoy some tea and cake.

Moody's and Fitch both rate U.S. bonds as AAA. Why not just go by their word? Besides, investors spent all week hauling their money from the stock markets into treasury bonds. The yield is minuscule, but it sure beats losing, and nobody would do this if U.S. bonds were junk.

I will, though, go on a rant about something kind of related to this--something that shows how batshit crazy our politics has become.

The debt ceiling "crisis" was absolutely ridiculous. The U.S. has a lot of problems, and the U.S. public debt is caused by/causes some problems, but it was not in the full-blown crisis mode a lot of important people made it seem to be. Congress has just cut some spending, but in doing so, they've aggravated a lot of other problems.

The U.S. has had debt ever since the country was founded, no matter what was going with the U.S. budget. The government's budget isn't just a simple checking account. Good credit is immensely helpful for governments, businesses and individuals, giving us flexibility to buy awesome stuff, like cars, houses, factory machinery, health care, and F-15 jets. One's credit rating actually gets better when one borrows money and pays it back on time, so having debt along with excellent credit is actually a very good thing. The big three credit rating companies all rated the U.S.'s creditworthiness as super awesome for a long time, until this weekend. (Moody's has some small qualms about the "super" part and has a negative outlook, but they still rate us as Aaa, and Fitch is giving us high-fives and man hugs.)

But don't you dare tell that to the Tea Party.

I might not have the process entirely correct, but here's a simple view of how the U.S. debt ceiling works: Congress sets the budget and appropriates funds. Then, Congress sets the "debt ceiling," the limit on how much debt the U.S. Treasury can have. Congress always increases the debt ceiling because that gives the Treasury permission to spend and borrow money to "buy" the things Congress has already fucking asked it to "buy." Congress always does this when it's necessary and does this pretty much every year.

This year, however, we've got a bunch of Tea Party rubes infesting the Republican party. This minority faction has inordinate influence on the GOP's policy, and as such, the Republican party is moving well to the right and embracing an anti-government, anti-tax, anti-debt philosophy. On the surface, this philosophy is a weird blend of populism with conservatism and libertarianism, though it's not any of those, and it has a strange (unhealthy, even) obsession with balancing the government's budget . Right now, the Democrats occupy the White House and have a slim majority in the Senate but the GOP controls the House of Representatives. It's very hard to get shit done without going through both houses of Congress. It would be even harder for the Republicans to cut government spending as dictated by both by traditional conservatism and the Tea Party philosophy. By normal legislative means, they would have to garner enough votes in the House to pass such legislation, then get the Senate to pass that legislation, and then have President Obama sign such legislation into law. And they'd also have to hope that there are no judicial challenges to the law that could lead to having it struck down for being unconstitutional.

(I'm sorry if you're familiar with "checks and balances" in the U.S. and I just wasted your time, but I'm just illustrating how hard this would be to achieve unless the Democrats would completely sell out.)

These Republican geniuses in the House, however, came up with Plan B: they decided that they weren't going to vote to raise the debt ceiling even though Congress had already fucking set the government's budget unless its demands to cut federal spending (particularly "entitlement spending," such as Social Security, Medicare, etc.) were approved. The U.S. was under obligation to make payments on its debts on August 2, and has the Treasury not been authorized to borrow money to meet these obligations, the government would have defaulted on its debts and this could have caused a catastrophe. In other words, the Republican party--particularly the House Republicans, and even more specifically, the Tea Party caucus in the House--was telling Congressional Democrats and President Obama that they were going to let the global economy be destroyed unless the government spent less money on things that are generally very helpful to the public.

In short, the Republicans used the Treasury's payment "due date" as a means to manufacture a crisis to force government to agree to their demands and were able to enact policies that they would not have otherwise been able to enact. They held the government and the global economy hostage in exchange for a ransom of spending cuts.

Dick move. Huge dick move. Brobama went on TV and flipped out, and Vice President Bro Biden got into hot water for calling the Republicans economic "terrorists." And both parties got into arguments and negotiations that turned into arguments. And the Democrats asked the Republicans if they'd also agree to raise taxes, because if they wanted to slash the public debt, then raising revenue is a good idea, too. But the Republicans said no, and the Democrats fought back with their age-old tactic: saying, "OK, then we'll just go along with your idea." But the Republicans didn't even really have an idea, because they were too busy arguing among themselves about which expenditures to cut and which cute kittens to kill, so Congress and the President agreed to cut some spending, figure out what exactly to cut later, and not worry about the debt ceiling again until after the 2012 elections.

And we all know how the markets and Standard & Poor's reacted to this, because throughout modern history, austerity policies invariably fail to make things better. And as long as we have a significant amount of elected officials that either have no idea how to run the financial side of a business, or are intentionally "starving the beast" and hurting government in order to benefit big business, the U.S. government is going to do dumb things and a lot of human kind will suffer for it. But I guess we can always blame that damn black Marxist president.

Back to MCP's posts: As a registered Democratic voter, I sure hope my party adds this new Republican tactic to its own playbook. If we're ever in a similar situation and there is the potential to use brinkmanship to threaten a Republican plan unless we get things done according to our party's platform, we need to do this. The Democratic Party used to play dirty, and we used to kick ass. Now, we play nice with the Republicans and we just get fucked in the ass.

The Democratic Party's platform is very liberal, but instead of embracing our platform and fighting like hell to get government to do what we want it to do, we are much too willing to water down our legislation or vote for legislation that goes too far to the right to accommodate the Republicans because the current duopoly keeps our leaders in power and makes them rich. Consolidation of power stifles competition and leaves very few alternatives. But if the Democratic Party does what is says it wants to do, instead of just saying it, the differences between the two parties would be clear, the duopoly wouldn't be so bad, and our country would prosper.

[Daggers]

Dear Jordan,

Please do a version of that in one sentence or pictures.

Thanks.

[foxoffderby]

Can someone explain to me how this affects the value of the pound aganist the doller. Yesterday when I looked it was 1 pound was equal to 1 dollar 63. Im off to Florida with the wife and kid in a couple of weeks. Should I buy my US dollars now or hold out for another week or two to get the best rate? Thanks

[Jordan]

Dear Jordan,

Please do a version of that in one sentence or pictures.

Thanks.

Ok.

[ACF]

+1 to Jordan for that fooking epic post.

[@mrtonycox]

Personally I don't give a shit about America's money problems or the knock on.. Everyone been in the same boat for ages, lets just crack on an accept the only way to get money is to be an overpaid footballer or plumber..

[BoneDog]

STAGED FINANCIAL TERROR

In red capitals yo.