BlueSi13 Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 The empire was skint? And you might not need to constantly apologise for heinous acts of the past, but I don't see how you can defend them either. You'll find no defence for the crimes committed by those representing the British Empire from me, i just like to make the point that there are arguments which analyse the positive effects Britain's role in creating a truly global realm had. I just feel we are beat down a little too harshly at times, a lot of it fuelled by the hollywood obsession of painting us in the same light as those from the Third Reich. What we wanted was resources and trade....not for the world to be converted into an wholly white, British, and Anglican land, with those different to us wiped off the face of the earth. As for immigration, i do believe the major parties have woken up and realised the damage this issue could potentially do to them (i strongly believe it had a huge role to play in Labour's defeat last year) however...there is nothing anyone of them can do to stop immigration from the European Union so they are trying to be as tough as they realistically can on those from outside Europe. Either way immigration has had its benefits (richer, more cosmopolitan society with greater understanding and love of new ideas, cultures, foods and music, along with a weakened sense of "fort Britain" to the outside world) and negatives (competition for jobs being the most pressing, thus breeding resentment, anger, and a sense of injustice, all of which are stunningly dangerous to a society) What is the answer that will satisfy the underclass, middle class and big business? Thank god i'm not a politician!
panky and our gang Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 Instead of being simplistic please enlighten me on exactly where I missed the point C Fox great enlightened one ? you just use gainsay to further you argument instead of laying out a counter juxtaposition. And don't give me that borrowed arrogant " but you have missed the point " canard . If you want to play the I'm more intelligent than you game then please start with changing you avatar , you use that as some sort of image that you are clearly not . lol
21st Century Fox Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 Instead of being simplistic please enlighten me on exactly where I missed the point C Fox great enlightened one ? you just use gainsay to further you argument instead of laying out a counter juxtaposition. And don't give me that borrowed arrogant " but you have missed the point " canard . If you want to play the I'm more intelligent than you game then please start with changing you avatar , you use that as some sort of image that you are clearly not . lol My point was what exactly 'English' meant! As we're genetically an amalgamation of all those foreign invaders. The very word England comes from Angelnin in Germany. I also have this avatar as Sleuth happens to be one of my favourite films. Read into it what you will.
BlueSi13 Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 My point was what exactly 'English' meant! As we're genetically an amalgamation of all those foreign invaders. The very word England comes from Angelnin in Germany. I also have this avatar as Sleuth happens to be one of my favourite films. Read into it what you will. I understand the point your trying to make here, i've heard this one many times, the "the English are a mongrel race anyway". This argument only makes things worse as what your saying without knowing it is that the English should not stick up for their country, defend it or be proud of its culture and traditions because we are a mix of peoples dating thousands of years. It's a counter productive argument i believe. I do however personally think its because of this mix that we've punched way above our weight throughout our entire history, and why that heritage needs to be preserved (btw i think immigration makes us far stronger) as i think the threat comes not from immigrants, or the EU, but from our own negativity and unwillingness to apply ourselves and to compete in the now GLOBAL space. Look forwards, not back, shoulder to shoulder with your neighbour.
21st Century Fox Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 I understand the point your trying to make here, i've heard this one many times, the "the English are a mongrel race anyway". This argument only makes things worse as what your saying without knowing it is that the English should not stick up for their country, defend it or be proud of its culture and traditions because we are a mix of peoples dating thousands of years. It's a counter productive argument i believe. I do however personally think its because of this mix that we've punched way above our weight throughout our entire history, and why that heritage needs to be preserved (btw i think immigration makes us far stronger) as i think the threat comes not from immigrants, or the EU, but from our own negativity and unwillingness to apply ourselves and to compete in the now GLOBAL space. Look forwards, not back, shoulder to shoulder with your neighbour. HOW?? You can see that as negative maybe. It would seem to me it implies that culture and 'genetics' are constantly changing, as it still is. Not only for our country but for all. What was considered 'English' a hundred years ago is far removed from today. You can look at any countries national football team as a microcosm for how immigration has improved their country. France wouldn't be anywhere near the team they are without the players garnered from their former colonies.
21st Century Fox Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 I'm an earthling Exactly we're just monkeys fighting over bits of rock.
ozleicester Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 Exactly we're just monkeys fighting over bits of rock.
acooling08 Posted 3 September 2011 Author Posted 3 September 2011 What fear? And don't hide behind the 'many thousands of English people' moniker, come forward and explain your phobia. Well for one the top rated comment supporting Cleese has like 4000 thumbs up ratings. I completely agree with Cleese. Limited immigration is fine, but when the immigrants begin to outnumber the natives then that is just not right. I know the 2001 census says over 90% white but we have had A LOT of immigration in that 10 years. In Leicester city there are schools where 90% aren't white British. I just find that wrong. I also can fully appreciate the need for highly skilled foreign workers to help boost the economy, but what about the endless fat asian families with 10 kids who claim benefits and end up in a £250'000 council house? Or the ones who commit crime and then can't be deported due to human 'rights'? If hundreds of thousands of Brits went to Pakistan and imposed our cullture on them. E.g. Drank alcohol, let women wear what they want etc, do you think they'd all think 'I like how our culture is changing'. No, they'd cut your hands off, or give you some other backward Sharia punishment and tell you to get fvcked. Why do we stand for it in the UK?? Oh and did I say anything about wanting to return to colonialism or the slave trade? Of course I didn't, an England like we were in the 1960s would be great.
shen Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 You'll find no defence for the crimes committed by those representing the British Empire from me, i just like to make the point that there are arguments which analyse the positive effects Britain's role in creating a truly global realm had. I just feel we are beat down a little too harshly at times, a lot of it fuelled by the hollywood obsession of painting us in the same light as those from the Third Reich. What we wanted was resources and trade....not for the world to be converted into an wholly white, British, and Anglican land, with those different to us wiped off the face of the earth. DIdn't mean defend so such as condone. The way you're playing down the negative actions and consequence of British rule in the world by playing the 'we started globalization' card is not very commendable. And if you think there's much exaggeration going on in this thread, look no further than your own comment.
Rincewind Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 Acooling08 , A nice witty piece you nearly had me believing you were serious with your comments.
I am Rod Hull Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 Quote... 'I had a Californian friend come over two months ago, walk down the King's Road and say, "Where are all the English people?" Was it a Chelsea squad day out ?
shen Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 Well for one the top rated comment supporting Cleese has like 4000 thumbs up ratings. I completely agree with Cleese. Limited immigration is fine, but when the immigrants begin to outnumber the natives then that is just not right. I know the 2001 census says over 90% white but we have had A LOT of immigration in that 10 years. In Leicester city there are schools where 90% aren't white British. I just find that wrong. I also can fully appreciate the need for highly skilled foreign workers to help boost the economy, but what about the endless fat asian families with 10 kids who claim benefits and end up in a £250'000 council house? Or the ones who commit crime and then can't be deported due to human 'rights'? If hundreds of thousands of Brits went to Pakistan and imposed our cullture on them. E.g. Drank alcohol, let women wear what they want etc, do you think they'd all think 'I like how our culture is changing'. No, they'd cut your hands off, or give you some other backward Sharia punishment and tell you to get fvcked. Why do we stand for it in the UK?? Oh and did I say anything about wanting to return to colonialism or the slave trade? Of course I didn't, an England like we were in the 1960s would be great. I don't have the strength or the will to go into a debate with you about this right now, but surely this will bait someone else. Where's Zing when you need him?
purpleronnie Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 Well for one the top rated comment supporting Cleese has like 4000 thumbs up ratings. I completely agree with Cleese. Limited immigration is fine, but when the immigrants begin to outnumber the natives then that is just not right. I know the 2001 census says over 90% white but we have had A LOT of immigration in that 10 years. In Leicester city there are schools where 90% aren't white British. I just find that wrong. I also can fully appreciate the need for highly skilled foreign workers to help boost the economy, but what about the endless fat asian families with 10 kids who claim benefits and end up in a £250'000 council house? Or the ones who commit crime and then can't be deported due to human 'rights'? If hundreds of thousands of Brits went to Pakistan and imposed our cullture on them. E.g. Drank alcohol, let women wear what they want etc, do you think they'd all think 'I like how our culture is changing'. No, they'd cut your hands off, or give you some other backward Sharia punishment and tell you to get fvcked. Why do we stand for it in the UK?? Oh and did I say anything about wanting to return to colonialism or the slave trade? Of course I didn't, an England like we were in the 1960s would be great. Just out of interest what do you think 'is wron'g about having the odd school with a high amounts of non whites? Plus why choose the odd stroy you here about some non white (probably born here so is infact english) claiming benefits like every non white person has to work all the time, or never commit a crime, how can you manage that? Its ok for whites to do all those things but when a non white does it its somehow worse? Its as if some want every non white person to be some kind of angel and if they're not they should be deported. Its weird. I don't understand why some have a problem with a country evolving. Or that some see a large population of non whites somehow makes their lives worse.
shen Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 I don't understand why some have a problem with a country evolving. Or that some see a large population of non whites somehow makes their lives worse. It's the old blaming-culture rearing its head again. It's never one's own fault if things worsen...
Haydos Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 Where do some of you draw the line on whether an opinion is acceptable? Do you think anyone that doesn't fully support everything to do with a 'mixed culture' has racist views? It seems that anyone who questions (regardless of their actual beliefs and opinions) anything to do with religion is branded a Neanderthal. I don't agree with accooling but I can see his point of view. I can also see the point of view that it isn't far from there to racism but there IS a difference.
dave the caveman Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 Plus why choose the odd stroy you here about some non white (probably born here so is infact english) claiming benefits like every non white person has to work all the time, or never commit a crime, how can you manage that? Its ok for whites to do all those things but when a non white does it its somehow worse? Its as if some want every non white person to be some kind of angel and if they're not they should be deported. Its weird. It's not weird or hard to understand. There is a perception that some immigrants come here purely for the benefits. They've never contributed anything and only come here to take money and a lifestyle that they have done nothing to deserve. A similar native may at least have paid some VAT here and there or have parents who might have paid some income tax, and they were born here, so if they're going to take advantage of any benefit system it should be this one. Foreigners, however, see the country as ripe for subtle pillaging. They come here only to steal benefits from the hard working, tax paying natives. They have no intention of improving themselves, integrating or doing anything positive for this country. They only want to rape a weak left wing system for all it is worth.
shen Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 Where do some of you draw the line on whether an opinion is acceptable? Do you think anyone that doesn't fully support everything to do with a 'mixed culture' has racist views? It seems that anyone who questions (regardless of their actual beliefs and opinions) anything to do with religion is branded a Neanderthal. I don't agree with accooling but I can see his point of view. I can also see the point of view that it isn't far from there to racism but there IS a difference. He's just pointing the finger in the wrong direction. Immigrants are not to blame for a waning sense of 'English'-ness (whatever that is, as others have pointed out). It's ignorant blaming culture which is based on heaps and heaps of prejudice. Why SHOULD that be an acceptable opinion?
Rincewind Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 Xenophobia stereotyping ignorance. Do these words sound better than racism.
purpleronnie Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 It's not weird or hard to understand. There is a perception that some immigrants come here purely for the benefits. They've never contributed anything and only come here to take money and a lifestyle that they have done nothing to deserve. A similar native may at least have paid some VAT here and there or have parents who might have paid some income tax, and they were born here, so if they're going to take advantage of any benefit system it should be this one. Foreigners, however, see the country as ripe for subtle pillaging. They come here only to steal benefits from the hard working, tax paying natives. They have no intention of improving themselves, integrating or doing anything positive for this country. They only want to rape a weak left wing system for all it is worth. Again I dont understand why people think that out of all the immigrants (where the evidence shows the huge majority work) there wont be a tiny percentage who will only come to claim benfits. It seems people want to live in some idealistic country where british born (I assume that s why your getting at) can behave in one way but immigrants can't. Oh and surely the fact that the odd immigrant sits on their ass all day spongeing off the system shows immigrants have intergrated into the british way of life.
Rincewind Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 Immigration laws Before anyone posts stating 'all imigrants are claiming/cant speak English etc maybe they should do some research on the subject. there are sub sections in the link including requirements of knowlledge of English traditions and language. Not found anything about what they can claim etc but I did see a leaflet a while back that said iuntil they had been granted full citizenship they were given vouchers for food and clothes. If they commit a crime while waiting they are immediately deported. I am sure there are many more conditions to dispell myths. Amusing in a way. Any imigrant wanting to come here may come across this messageboard (City Fan) or any like it and find posts that say immigrants are given free houses benifits as soon as they enter and they can commit any crime they want and not be punished. They will think great I will catch the next boat, what my Uncle said must have been wrong.
I am Rod Hull Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 Again I dont understand why people think that out of all the immigrants (where the evidence shows the huge majority work) there wont be a tiny percentage who will only come to claim benfits. It seems people want to live in some idealistic country where british born (I assume that s why your getting at) can behave in one way but immigrants can't. Oh and surely the fact that the odd immigrant sits on their ass all day spongeing off the system shows immigrants have intergrated into the british way of life.
Rincewind Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 Asylum seekers and housing Housing benefits and immigrants
FoxyPV Posted 3 September 2011 Posted 3 September 2011 Well for one the top rated comment supporting Cleese has like 4000 thumbs up ratings. I completely agree with Cleese. Limited immigration is fine, but when the immigrants begin to outnumber the natives then that is just not right. I know the 2001 census says over 90% white but we have had A LOT of immigration in that 10 years. In Leicester city there are schools where 90% aren't white British. I just find that wrong. I also can fully appreciate the need for highly skilled foreign workers to help boost the economy, but what about the endless fat asian families with 10 kids who claim benefits and end up in a £250'000 council house? Or the ones who commit crime and then can't be deported due to human 'rights'? If hundreds of thousands of Brits went to Pakistan and imposed our cullture on them. E.g. Drank alcohol, let women wear what they want etc, do you think they'd all think 'I like how our culture is changing'. No, they'd cut your hands off, or give you some other backward Sharia punishment and tell you to get fvcked. Why do we stand for it in the UK?? Oh and did I say anything about wanting to return to colonialism or the slave trade? Of course I didn't, an England like we were in the 1960s would be great. Full of overt homophobia, sexism and racism. Sounds fucking briiliant. The UK is still overwhelming white - at least in the high 80s%
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