Interesting view of the 'effects' of alcohol.

[davieG]

A tad long but worthy of a read.

Somewhat controversial but I find myself agreeing with a lot of it although I lean towards believing that at the extremes some people have an innate aggression that is released by the alcohol.

BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15265317

Many people think heavy drinking causes promiscuity, violence and anti-social behaviour. That's not necessarily true, argues Kate Fox.

I am a social anthropologist, but what I do is not the traditional intrepid sort of anthropology where you go and study strange tribes in places with mud huts and monsoons and malaria.

I really don't see why anthropologists feel they have to travel to unpronounceable corners of the world in order to study strange tribal cultures with bizarre beliefs and mysterious customs, when in fact the weirdest and most puzzling tribe of all is right here on our doorstep. I am of course talking about my own native culture - the British.

And if you want examples of bizarre beliefs and weird customs, you need look no further than our attitude to drinking and our drinking habits. Pick up any newspaper and you will read that we are a nation of loutish binge-drinkers - that we drink too much, too young, too fast - and that it makes us violent, promiscuous, anti-social and generally obnoxious.

Clearly, we Brits do have a bit of a problem with alcohol, but why?

The problem is that we Brits believe that alcohol has magical powers - that it causes us to shed our inhibitions and become aggressive, promiscuous, disorderly and even violent.

But we are wrong.

In high doses, alcohol impairs our reaction times, muscle control, co-ordination, short-term memory, perceptual field, cognitive abilities and ability to speak clearly. But it does not cause us selectively to break specific social rules. It does not cause us to say, "Oi, what you lookin' at?" and start punching each other. Nor does it cause us to say, "Hey babe, fancy a shag?" and start groping each other.

The effects of alcohol on behaviour are determined by cultural rules and norms, not by the chemical actions of ethanol.

There is enormous cross-cultural variation in the way people behave when they drink alcohol. There are some societies (such as the UK, the US, Australia and parts of Scandinavia) that anthropologists call "ambivalent" drinking-cultures, where drinking is associated with disinhibition, aggression, promiscuity, violence and anti-social behaviour.

There are other societies (such as Latin and Mediterranean cultures in particular, but in fact the vast majority of cultures), where drinking is not associated with these undesirable behaviours - cultures where alcohol is just a morally neutral, normal, integral part of ordinary, everyday life - about on a par with, say, coffee or tea. These are known as "integrated" drinking cultures.

This variation cannot be attributed to different levels of consumption - most integrated drinking cultures have significantly higher per-capita alcohol consumption than the ambivalent drinking cultures.

Instead the variation is clearly related to different cultural beliefs about alcohol, different expectations about the effects of alcohol, and different social rules about drunken comportment.

This basic fact has been proved time and again, not just in qualitative cross-cultural research, but also in carefully controlled scientific experiments - double-blind, placebos and all. To put it very simply, the experiments show that when people think they are drinking alcohol, they behave according to their cultural beliefs about the behavioural effects of alcohol.

The British and other ambivalent drinking cultures believe that alcohol is a disinhibitor, and specifically that it makes people amorous or aggressive, so when in these experiments we are given what we think are alcoholic drinks - but are in fact non-alcoholic "placebos" - we shed our inhibitions.

We become more outspoken, more physically demonstrative, more flirtatious, and, given enough provocation, some (young males in particular) become aggressive. Quite specifically, those who most strongly believe that alcohol causes aggression are the most likely to become aggressive when they think that they have consumed alcohol.

Our beliefs about the effects of alcohol act as self-fulfilling prophecies - if you firmly believe and expect that booze will make you aggressive, then it will do exactly that. In fact, you will be able to get roaring drunk on a non-alcoholic placebo.

And our erroneous beliefs provide the perfect excuse for anti-social behaviour. If alcohol "causes" bad behaviour, then you are not responsible for your bad behaviour. You can blame the booze - "it was the drink talking", "I was not myself" and so on.

But it is possible to change our drinking culture. Cultural shifts happen all the time, and there is extensive evidence (again from carefully controlled experiments, conducted in natural settings such as bars and nightclubs) to show that it doesn't take much to effect dramatic changes in how people behave when they drink.

These experiments show that even when people are very drunk, if they are given an incentive (either financial reward or even just social approval) they are perfectly capable of remaining in complete control of their behaviour - of behaving as though they were totally sober.

To achieve these changes, we need a complete and radical re-think of the aims and messages of all alcohol-education campaigns. So far, these efforts have perpetuated or even exacerbated the problem, because almost all of them simply reinforce our beliefs about the magical disinhibiting powers of alcohol.

The drinkaware website, for example, warns young people that a mere three pints of beer (ie a perfectly normal evening out) "can lead to anti-social, aggressive and violent behaviour", that "you might start saying things you don't mean and behaving out of character", that alcohol is implicated in a high percentage of sexual offences and street crimes, and that the morning after "you may wonder what you did the night before".

I would like to see a complete change of focus, with all alcohol-education and awareness campaigns designed specifically to challenge these beliefs - to get across the message that a) alcohol does not cause disinhibition (aggressive, sexual or otherwise) and that b) even when you are drunk, you are in control of and have total responsibility for your actions and behaviour.

Alcohol education will have achieved its ultimate goal not when young people in this country are afraid of alcohol and avoid it because it is toxic and dangerous, but when they are frankly just a little bit bored by it, when they don't need to be told not to binge-drink vodka shots, any more than they now need to be told not to swig down 15 double espressos in quick succession.

Even the silliest teenagers would not dream of doing that. And not because they have been educated about the dangers of a caffeine overdose - although there undoubtedly are such dangers - but because it would just be daft, what would be the point?

What we should be aiming for is a culture where you don't need alcohol-education programmes, any more than we now need coffee or tea education programmes.

If I were given total power, I could very easily engineer a nation in which coffee would become a huge social problem - a nation in which young people would binge-drink coffee every Friday and Saturday night and then rampage around town centres being anti-social, getting into fights and having unprotected sex in random one-night stands.

I would restrict access to coffee, thus immediately giving it highly desirable forbidden-fruit status. Then I would issue lots of dire warnings about the dangerously disinhibiting effects of coffee.

I would make sure everyone knew that even a mere three cups (six "units") of coffee "can lead to anti-social, aggressive and violent behaviour", and sexual promiscuity, thus instantly giving young people a powerful motive to binge-drink double espressos, and a perfect excuse to behave very badly after doing so.

I could legitimately base many of my scary coffee-awareness warnings on the known effects of caffeine, and I could easily make these sound like a recipe for disaster, or at least for disinhibition and public disorder.

It would not take long for my dire warnings to create the beliefs and expectations that would make them self-fulfilling prophecies. This may sound like a science fiction story, but it is precisely what our misguided alcohol-education programmes have done.

Over the past few decades the government, the drinks industry and schools have done exactly the opposite of what they should do to tackle our dysfunctional drinking. I remain perhaps stupidly optimistic that eventually they will find the courage to turn things around and start heading in the right direction.

[General Smuts]

Kate Fox sounds like a username that would be on here.

Kate Fox sounds like a username that would be on here.

Also im a fan of her brother Ruel.

[davieG]

Kate Fox sounds like a username that would be on here.

Also im a fan of her brother Ruel.

Are you drunk?

[jonthefox]

Kate Fox sounds like a username that would be on here.

Also im a fan of her brother Ruel.

I banged her sister megan once.

[MPH]

i gave up drinking alcohol several years ago for some of the reasons mentioned in this report/article...

Also the insane amount of money it would cost me ... doing much better off now

Waking up headache free with money and a memory suites me better - i was never able to have just one or two - i'd lose count somewhere around 15 pints. Usually Guinness.

[General Smuts]

Are you drunk?

Is the pope a nazi?

[Trav Le Bleu]

i gave up drinking alcohol several years ago for some of the reasons mentioned in this report/article...

Also the insane amount of money it would cost me ... doing much better off now

Waking up headache free with money and a memory suites me better - i was never able to have just one or two - i'd lose count somewhere around 15 pints. Usually Guinness.

Seriously? Costs me a few quid each week, cos I don't drink to get drunk. Of course it was causing you problem then complete abstinance is usually the only way. In which case, well done.

I think Kate's wrong though. She says about the mediterranean cultures of integrated drinking and their attitudes, but the phrase "In vino veritas" is Latin... or Mediterranean if you like. In Vino Veritas translates as "In wine the truth", the belief that people DO lower their inhibitions and become more honest. To say that medditerranean cultures don't believe this is clearly nonsense - they invented the concept!

Also worth pointing out that other cultures pace themselve and don't drink to get drunk.

Alcohol doesn't make a person violent - it just drops the reins of control that hold violent people back when they're sober, or if you like, in control. The people I know who get nasty after a few drinks... I've always thought they had it in them. I'd see the odd spark up now and again. Similarly, nice people tend to get into the "I love you" mode more.

That's my experience. Nobody else can have had exactly as I have, but I believe it's a valid point. The problem is the control mechanisms we use to repress violence instread of just NOT being violent in the first place, to properly train ourselves so that even under the influence, we're not violent.

Simply put, the problem is a lack of self-control. It should come naturally, so that even after a few drinks it's not gone.

Oh, and her coffee-prohibition metaphor is blatantly ridiculous. She seems to think people are stupid.

[z-layrex]

I think if you act like a violent/creepy dickhead when you're pissed, it's just because you're a dickhead underneath and hide it most of the time due to cultural pressure to behave in a certain way.

[Rincewind]

I know someone that drinks around 15 pints a day. I doubt he will stop of his own free will.

[ajthefox]

Interesting article although it's not all quite so clean cut.

I'm quite aware as I'm sure most others are that alcohol does effect you but a lot of your behaviour is still well and truly yours and not just a product of the alcohol.

There have been a few times where I've had as much as to drink as usual but have felt shit and not done anything that indicative of being smashed and other nights where I've not drunk that much but have probably looked smashed because I've just not given a shit and have gone out and had a good time.

Her coffee claims are realistically neither here nor there. She knows the situation to test it will never arise so she can say what she likes.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

I drink three bottles of brandy, two bottles of sherry, and around six bottles of real ale per week, on average. Saturday night is the night I drink the most.

[Phube]

I have always thought this. To the point where the Government should take all 15 year olds, get them drunk and then provoke them. Any that have the "Chav Reflex" should be permanently banned from imbibing alcohol (Say tattoos on their head or something equally drastic!)

[Salieri]

I drink three bottles of brandy, two bottles of sherry, and around six bottles of real ale per week, on average. Saturday night is the night I drink the most.

[Rincewind]

The only thing alcohol does to me is make me feel tired. I can also be more chatty and talk nonsense. I have never been aggressive sober or drunk or felt the need to beat somebody to a pulp. So in a way I agree that it doesnt matter.

I have a kind of interest in her line of work. I find it interesting how the surroundings of a person, who they mix with the way one is brought up and stories passed down through generations.

Maybe with alcohol a person loses the ability to reason and think before doing something. They may have the potential for example to commit violence but when sober their sense of moral code prevents them. If the parenting,schooling is bad then the Netandral surfaces alcohol or no alcohol.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

[/quote

:crylaugh: Err, yes, that could be me at times. Is that what they mean by "piss head"

[Head Honcho]

i gave up drinking alcohol several years ago for some of the reasons mentioned in this report/article...

Also the insane amount of money it would cost me ... doing much better off now

Waking up headache free with money and a memory suites me better - i was never able to have just one or two - i'd lose count somewhere around 15 pints. Usually Guinness.

I'm one of these people who never drinks in the house but as soon as I go out I drink as If the pint I'm drinking will be my last unless I get another one in quick...........very strange!

I never get aggressive on booze mind maybe a bit lippy but no more than anyone else I suppose.

I do however have this expensive habit of wanting to buy every ****er a drink, must stop doing that!

In France last month and cut down on the booze big time, 6-7 euros a pint may have had something to do with it.

[MPH]

I'm one of these people who never drinks in the house but as soon as I go out I drink as If the pint I'm drinking will be my last unless I get another one in quick...........very strange!

I never get aggressive on booze mind maybe a bit lippy but no more than anyone else I suppose.

I do however have this expensive habit of wanting to buy every ****er a drink, must stop doing that!

In France last month and cut down on the booze big time, 6-7 euros a pint may have had something to do with it.

yeah the same - i could NEVER go out without getting drunk .i'd be drunk by 9.30 on a friday night. really embarrassing looking back at it..

These days... you know... If i stay away from the edge, i won't fall off the cliff...

[flowwolf]

Never understood where the saying "pissed as a fart " came from. Any suggestions ?

[davieG]

Never understood where the saying "pissed as a fart " came from. Any suggestions ?

Probably someone who was so drunk that they shit themselves when they thought they were going to fart.

[flowwolf]

Ah got you . Thanks !

[FoxesAreBlue]

I don't get aggressive but I do seem to get the idea into my head that I'm literally the best thing in the world and everybody in the bar/club is there for me - after a few beers my ego is ridiculous

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Back when I was about nineteen, I went fishing in the Thames at Bisham, where I lived. Had a few pints, and had a large hip flask of Whisky. Went fishing on a wooden landing stage in the dark. I cast my ledger out, slipped on the wet and rotten wood, slid forward across the decking, and gently went head first into the river. Thank God, and no one saw me, I laugh about it now, but then, I was not amused! :rolleyes: