Quarter of the season gone

[blueharmie]

and WHO do we replace sven with? of course w are not happy, we nearly went down last season and look where we ended up. what position were we in this time last season? i bet it wasnt a few points for the playoffs or even top of the table. sven will stay and take us up , why dont some people shut the **** up moaning its sad,

[Guest Col city fan]

and WHO do we replace sven with? of course w are not happy, we nearly went down last season and look where we ended up. what position were we in this time last season? i bet it wasnt a few points for the playoffs or even top of the table. sven will stay and take us up , why dont some people shut the **** up moaning its sad,

Plenty of options available really... Pay compensation to get someone? Billy Davies? Love him or loathe him he has done pretty well at most clubs he has been at...

Is Sven the right man... Great bloke but tough enough to battle us out of this division?

Jurys out still for me tbh....

I want to see Leicester succeed.. End of

Couldn't give a monkeys toss if that's under Sven or not

[wellyfox]

Why does everyone keep saying how fantastic away draw are??

If you look at the top 2 every season it's very likely they will have won 10-11 away games, I don't remember many going up with a 0-23-0 record.

Also, anyone who thought we were good first half yesterday....I have no words, it was absolutely awful, we could of played until today and not have scored.

Spot on Mattp

Peeps think we was good first half cos we had lots of the ball.

Thats cos brum were going to try and hit us on the break for some reason thinking we are a great team. (way to much respect for us on the day)

Half time they were told to bring the game to us cos we were shite.

Oh n i think yesterday was a little soon to score it would be more like saturday. But thats my opinion.

And i have hind sight :crylaugh:

[Thracian]

Depends what you expected, as I've said from day one I expected a slow start and that's what we have had. My main gripe is not where we are in the table, but that I don't think the manager is yet any the wiser as to what our best formation or team is.

That's a pretty big gripe considering he sees the players in training on a daily basis and can set up matches with any system or permutation he wishes.

[Babylon]

That's a pretty big gripe considering he sees the players in training on a dialy basis and can set up matches with any system or permutation he wishes.

It is a fairly big gripe, and getting bigger.

[Corky]

A case of sour gripes?

[cc_star]

I remain almost confused at the continual loving of Sven.. 'we will get it right', 'win the next two and we are ok'...

Yup, thing is in 'those next 2 games' (whenever they are, this season or last) Sven always seems to do the bare minimum to keep the masses just about onside

He has been afforded a lot of people's good will for a lot longer than many others would have, which given he's been the most fortunate manager in our history is bemusing.

I think these next 2 actual games (not the previously mentioned fictional next 2 games that get wheeled out) are key, not for him being forced out as that moment passed at the beginning of the international break, but in the masses attitudes towards him.

After a quarter of the season we're on track for 67pts which isn't enough for promotion, he has to do much better & he has to do it soon. Even in our 7 match unbeaten run we fell short of 2pts per game and according to Statto.com still missed out on a top 2 spot if that period's form was replicated for the season... so even Sven's best so far isn't good enough, which is worrying.

[marbelladave]

and WHO do we replace sven with? of course w are not happy, we nearly went down last season and look where we ended up. what position were we in this time last season? i bet it wasnt a few points for the playoffs or even top of the table. sven will stay and take us up , why dont some people shut the **** up moaning its sad,

Don't replace him, support him with a good first team coach!

Sven has not, in recent years been a truly effective 'hands on' manager. He is much more a 'Director of Football' type, great with the owners, the media and a fantastic figurehead. He can 'set the tone' football wise and use he contacts and reputation to bring in players yet leave the day to day stuff to a good young and tactically aware coach.

Chris Powell has never been properly replaced, Fazackerly is primarily a fitness coach and Stowell a goalkeeping coach of dubious quality (if Weale's progress is anything to go on), bringing a proper first team coach into this setup is hardly a luxury.

[unreachable]

Don't replace him, support him with a good first team coach!

Sven has not, in recent years been a truly effective 'hands on' manager. He is much more a 'Director of Football' type, great with the owners, the media and a fantastic figurehead. He can 'set the tone' football wise and use he contacts and reputation to bring in players yet leave the day to day stuff to a good young and tactically aware coach.

Chris Powell has never been properly replaced, Fazackerly is primarily a fitness coach and Stowell a goalkeeping coach of dubious quality (if Weale's progress is anything to go on), bringing a proper first team coach into this setup is hardly a luxury.

How can a coach make a player take a decent corner or free kick? What about the responsibility and knowledge within a player's own head?

[marbelladave]

How can a coach make a player take a decent corner or free kick? What about the responsibility and knowledge within a player's own head?

We have players who are, prior to this season, very decent indeed, thats why we brought them in. For some reason, in our setup, too many of them are not playing anything like they are capable, for me that is a coaching issue.

There are tactical issues, the incredibly negative way we set up away from home, the way we sit on a lead, even at home, to me this does not look like a team chasing promotion.

Several of our players are playing in unacustomed positions, Fernandes was an excellent defensive player at Citeh yet Sven wants him to play on the right, Danns was routinely the attacking focus in the Palace midfield yet, when he gets a game it is usually on the left.......

The pivotal attacking role in our midfield goes to King, a player with no creative ability when it comes to unlocking a set defence, and Wellens, a more creative player is allowed to play in front of the back 4 where he doesn't have to run too much....... total nonsense.

It goes on and on, Konchesky a decent but limited fullback is required to provide an attacking threat down the left when his lack of pace on the recovery leaves us open on his flank, a small quick striker given nothing but long balls to work with (no wonder he looks fed up),,,,,

Given the talent at our disposal I think we have massively underperformed this season, I am having real difficulty accepting this....

[unreachable]

We have players who are, prior to this season, very decent indeed, thats why we brought them in. For some reason, in our setup, too many of them are not playing anything like they are capable, for me that is a coaching issue.

There are tactical issues, the incredibly negative way we set up away from home, the way we sit on a lead, even at home, to me this does not look like a team chasing promotion.

Several of our players are playing in unacustomed positions, Fernandes was an excellent defensive player at Citeh yet Sven wants him to play on the right, Danns was routinely the attacking focus in the Palace midfield yet, when he gets a game it is usually on the left.......

The pivotal attacking role in our midfield goes to King, a player with no creative ability when it comes to unlocking a set defence, and Wellens, a more creative player is allowed to play in front of the back 4 where he doesn't have to run too much....... total nonsense.

It goes on and on, Konchesky a decent but limited fullback is required to provide an attacking threat down the left when his lack of pace on the recovery leaves us open on his flank, a small quick striker given nothing but long balls to work with (no wonder he looks fed up),,,,,

Given the talent at our disposal I think we have massively underperformed this season, I am having real difficulty accepting this....

It sounds as though you are supporting the proposition that Sven should be removed if he has been getting so much wrong. I'm a little confused as to what you think Sven's role should be.

[marbelladave]

It sounds as though you are supporting the proposition that Sven should be removed if he has been getting so much wrong. I'm a little confused as to what you think Sven's role should be.

Read the earlier post..... Sven as Football Manager plus a first team coach to deal with day to day training and matchday tactics.

I'm a critic and an 'armchair manager', I have admitted a number of times that i do not have the faintest idea how to manage a team and make them perform, but I can see when things go wrong.

For example;

King is one of the best finishers we have at our club, 10+ goals in the last two seasons, mostly from midfield.

So the manager gives him a forward role so that he gets more goalscoring chances and scores more goals, obvious.....

But wrong.....

In fact it is wrong twice over, firstly King is most effective as a goalscorer when he arrives late and at pace. This does not happen if he is already well forward, you cannot arrive late if you are already there! Result is that King is easier to mark and often static or flat footed when the chances arrive, he does not really have the instincts of a striker so his scoring rate is well down.

Secondly, by playing him as the attacking mid we actually deprive ourselves of a proper creative player in that role. Where is the player who unlocks a set defence with sharp passes, who can pull out wide and hit in crosses or can run at a set defence with the ball at his feet? King for all his virtues, is not that kind of player and it is exactly that kind of a player that we need to turn our ample possesion into a real goal threat.

Konchesky, Fernandes, Danns and now Beckford are being wasted in unsuitable roles and it looks to me as if Wellens has taken the role at the base of the diamond for himself, no sane person could think that is his best position......

[Kitchandro]

We have players who are, prior to this season, very decent indeed, thats why we brought them in. For some reason, in our setup, too many of them are not playing anything like they are capable, for me that is a coaching issue.

There are tactical issues, the incredibly negative way we set up away from home, the way we sit on a lead, even at home, to me this does not look like a team chasing promotion.

Several of our players are playing in unacustomed positions, Fernandes was an excellent defensive player at Citeh yet Sven wants him to play on the right, Danns was routinely the attacking focus in the Palace midfield yet, when he gets a game it is usually on the left.......

The pivotal attacking role in our midfield goes to King, a player with no creative ability when it comes to unlocking a set defence, and Wellens, a more creative player is allowed to play in front of the back 4 where he doesn't have to run too much....... total nonsense.

It goes on and on, Konchesky a decent but limited fullback is required to provide an attacking threat down the left when his lack of pace on the recovery leaves us open on his flank, a small quick striker given nothing but long balls to work with (no wonder he looks fed up),,,,,

Given the talent at our disposal I think we have massively underperformed this season, I am having real difficulty accepting this....

Pretty much spot on.

The midfield is all over the place really, he's stil not decided who should play where and they have all been underperforming.

[Thracian]

How can a coach make a player take a decent corner or free kick? What about the responsibility and knowledge within a player's own head?

A decent coach can make people fly. It's the very essence of a coach - to make people get more out of themselves than they'd ever dreamed of.

Coaches don't just develop techniques, they develop attitudes of mind and a willingness to do what it takes to improve in whatever task is undertaken.

They make their charges feel invincible. I mean so confident in their preparation that they don't even think of failure.

They do so with information, persuasion, correction, encouragement, attainable targets, more challenging targets, demonstrated improvements, focus, inspiration and unconditional support.

Indeed, they become so supportive and so influential that their charges become intoxicated with the desire to win and to show that they cannot and will not be subdued.

The coach shows unswerving faith and belief, makes uncompromising demands and instils a special level of expectation where only the best will do.

Or in the words of the fiercely loyal Shankly when speaking of his team: "Liverpool is special. Even the way the players break their legs is special. So don't you worry about the opposition. They'll fade like snow when the rain comes".

Can you imagine letting Shankly or Ferguson down? Such people make you want to live and die for the club.

[Legend_in_blue]

A quarter of the season gone, throw in all the other quarters of seasons past while you're at it, and what don't we have?

At least two decent wide men.

[MC Prussian]

All this hate for Sven, when in fact, the team let itself down last Sunday.

Controlling the park in the first half, but too tame in front of goal - then sloppy, lazy and half-asleep in the second half.

Same starting eleven like against Derby.

Not Sven's fault. Blame the players and/or the collective effort.

Then again, two wins this week and all this repetitive Anti-Sven campaign is all just gone like the wind...

[Kitchandro]

All this hate for Sven, when in fact, the team let itself down last Sunday.

Controlling the park in the first half, but too tame in front of goal - then sloppy, lazy and half-asleep in the second half.

Same starting eleven like against Derby.

Not Sven's fault. Blame the players and/or the collective effort.

Then again, two wins this week and all this repetitive Anti-Sven campaign is all just gone like the wind...

In front of what goal? We didn't get near the goal.

For a minute, please look at our last 3 home performances.

Now look at our last 3 away performances.

Is it not obvious that we are going out with a different attitude away than at home?

And considering there is this obvious pattern, isn't it clear that Sven, being the manager, has forced this attitude upon them, and it's not the players deciding to play differently away from home every time?

Or do you just want to defend Sven no matter what?

Have you prepared an excuse for him if we don't beat Watford yet?

[MC Prussian]

In front of what goal? We didn't get near the goal.

For a minute, please look at our last 3 home performances.

Now look at our last 3 away performances.

Is it not obvious that we are going out with a different attitude away than at home?

And considering there is this obvious pattern, isn't it clear that Sven, being the manager, has forced this attitude upon them, and it's not the players deciding to play differently away from home every time?

Or do you just want to defend Sven no matter what?

Have you prepared an excuse for him if we don't beat Watford yet?

I don't know what game you were watching, but we did have some chances. Some, but not enough - like I've already posted in the Post Match Thread.

We just couldn't take those chances, because Myhill saved a few shots (shots I can count on one hand) or because our strikers got all mixed up before they even got a chance to shoot (I recall Beckford and Nugent getting inside the Birmingham box a few times towards the end of the game, when we were one man down). Crossing was also awful - but without a proper winger on the pitch, no real surprise.

Our last three away games were rather successful, there was a little pattern developing - win at home, draw away from home.

I mean, it should be obvious even to you that you cannot maintain that form completely over an entire season. There will be points dropped, both at home and away.

This "change of attitude" on foreign soil has been rather successful so far, wouldn't you agree?

Besides, I don't know what you're getting at because I won't defend Sven if we don't manage to win against Watford.

Ultimately, it's the team responsible for making things happen on the pitch. They've been training under the same manager for months now - so if they make crass mistakes, it's them who make the mistakes. Having a go at the manager is just the easy way out when the team as a collective crumbles or when players falter individually (like Mills last Sunday).

I, like many other so-called "Sven Lovers", have been rather realistic with my expectations (for example, standing firm on the fact that we won't walk this league, and I've said this all along).

Twelve, thirteen games into the season has been one magical mark for me and many others and you'll get a really clear picture comes Christmas.

If your high level of expectation isn't met, then that's not my problem.

Any knee-jerk reactions from you and your lot is just that... knee-jerkism at its finest.

[ajthefox]

In front of what goal? We didn't get near the goal.

For a minute, please look at our last 3 home performances.

Now look at our last 3 away performances.

Is it not obvious that we are going out with a different attitude away than at home?

And considering there is this obvious pattern, isn't it clear that Sven, being the manager, has forced this attitude upon them, and it's not the players deciding to play differently away from home every time?

Or do you just want to defend Sven no matter what?

Have you prepared an excuse for him if we don't beat Watford yet?

It's not as black and white as you are making out. You can't blame the performance solely on Sven, that can be said for Birmingham, Derby and any other game we've played.

Sven is supposed to be the motivator yes, but there is only so much he can do. If a couple of players don't have the right mind set going into the game, they could bring the rest of the team down even if the rest have been well motivated by Sven. A couple of small mistakes can quite easily snowball and turn a game on it's head.

[Guest MattP]

I don't know what game you were watching, but we did have some chances. Some, but not enough - like I've already posted in the Post Match Thread.

We just couldn't take those chances, because Myhill saved a few shots (shots I can count on one hand) or because our strikers got all mixed up before they even got a chance to shoot (I recall Beckford and Nugent getting inside the Birmingham box a few times towards the end of the game, when we were one man down). Crossing was also awful - but without a proper winger on the pitch, no real surprise.

Can you describe these "chances"? Hopelessy lobbing the ball into the area and watching it bouncing in between the strikers isnt a "created chance".

Myhill saved a few shots?? Seems bizarre given we only had one strike on target. To call that a "strike" is being very generous as well, the sort of chances we got at Birmingham were the sort I would expect a League 2 side to create drawn away at Old Trafford in the cup. Not the most expensively assembled side in the division.

As for our away form being "better than decent" - It's 5 games, 7 points, a pathetic 4 goals. The top 6, Brighton and Hull all have taken more points away, the most concerning thing for me on the away form is we have been this negative away against the teams placed 3rd, 12th, 15th, 16th, 19th and 20th. We actually have to start playing some decent sides away soon.

I agree with you on no proper winger and that's seriously hurting us, who can we blame for not bringing a quality right winger in and consistently leaving our only decent winger out despite him actually having a few decent games? Bernie?

After Derby you claimed this.

Today the eternal moaners got found out. Secretly, they got their own Sven Doll in the closet, but tend to hide it whenever we play well.

Is this how it goes?

Lose - Players fault.

Win - Sven the genius.

[MC Prussian]

Can you describe these "chances"? Hopelessy lobbing the ball into the area and watching it bouncing in between the strikers isnt a "created chance".

Myhill saved a few shots?? Seems bizarre given we only had one strike on target. To call that a "strike" is being very generous as well, the sort of chances we got at Birmingham were the sort I would expect a League 2 side to create drawn away at Old Trafford in the cup. Not the most expensively assembled side in the division.

As for our away form being "better than decent" - It's 5 games, 7 points, a pathetic 4 goals. The top 6, Brighton and Hull all have taken more points away, the most concerning thing for me on the away form is we have been this negative away against the teams placed 3rd, 12th, 15th, 16th, 19th and 20th. We actually have to start playing some decent sides away soon.

I agree with you on no proper winger and that's seriously hurting us, who can we blame for not bringing a quality right winger in and consistently leaving our only decent winger out despite him actually having a few decent games? Bernie?

After Derby you claimed this.

"Today the eternal moaners got found out. Secretly, they got their own Sven Doll in the closet, but tend to hide it whenever we play well."

Is this how it goes?

Lose - Players fault.

Win - Sven the genius.

It'd be great if you'd stop twitching my statements around and putting words in my mouth.

I have praised the players when they have played well and subsequently slated them when we did badly.

That's got nothing to do with Sven.

I was also talking about "chances" and you make it look like as if I was talking about "created chances". I also never mentioned anything close to "strikes".

That's your own invention, not mine.

You're just desperately trying to find a flaw in my argument - so you need to go as far as making things up. Now that's poor.

The "decent sides" we're playing are going to be played, there's no point in pressing the panic button again just because 7 points out of our first four away games weren't "decent" enough for your taste.

I thought that was a small record to be proud of, given the constant criticism aimed at the manager.

And I still firmly stand by my statement. The eternal moaners do have their own Sven Doll in the closet, but tend to hide it whenever we play well.

At one point, I do hope they have the courage to come out.

But I do appreciate your tongue-in-cheek approach. Keep it up.

[Reynard Bleu]

A decent coach can make people fly. It's the very essence of a coach - to make people get more out of themselves than they'd ever dreamed of.

Coaches don't just develop techniques, they develop attitudes of mind and a willingness to do what it takes to improve in whatever task is undertaken.

They make their charges feel invincible. I mean so confident in their preparation that they don't even think of failure.

They do so with information, persuasion, correction, encouragement, attainable targets, more challenging targets, demonstrated improvements, focus, inspiration and unconditional support.

Indeed, they become so supportive and so influential that their charges become intoxicated with the desire to win and to show that they cannot and will not be subdued.

The coach shows unswerving faith and belief, makes uncompromising demands and instils a special level of expectation where only the best will do.

Or in the words of the fiercely loyal Shankly when speaking of his team: "Liverpool is special. Even the way the players break their legs is special. So don't you worry about the opposition. They'll fade like snow when the rain comes".

Can you imagine letting Shankly or Ferguson down? Such people make you want to live and die for the club.

Ithink, (best check) that Shankly took 3 seasons to win the then 2nd division title, Ferguson took 2nd place in division 1 in his second season, but then had two pretty lean years. Both wonderful coaches and leaders, but even they needed a little time.

[marbelladave]

It'd be great if you'd stop twitching my statements around and putting words in my mouth.

I have praised the players when they have played well and subsequently slated them when we did badly.

That's got nothing to do with Sven.

I was also talking about "chances" and you make it look like as if I was talking about "created chances". I also never mentioned anything close to "strikes".

That's your own invention, not mine.

You're just desperately trying to find a flaw in my argument - so you need to go as far as making things up. Now that's poor.

The "decent sides" we're playing are going to be played, there's no point in pressing the panic button again just because 7 points out of our first four away games weren't "decent" enough for your taste.

I thought that was a small record to be proud of, given the constant criticism aimed at the manager.

And I still firmly stand by my statement. The eternal moaners do have their own Sven Doll in the closet, but tend to hide it whenever we play well.

At one point, I do hope they have the courage to come out.

But I do appreciate your tongue-in-cheek approach. Keep it up.

Whe we have played well it has been down to the players, this is correct.....

It has been down to individual players stepping up and playing well, our improvement in defence occured as soon as Mills started to find his form, similarly our midfield has only 'clicked' when Fernandes and Danns stepped up against Forest, or when King controlled the middle against Derby.

Otherwise we have been disjointed and pedestrian, particularly away from home, as a team we displayed no ambition or attacking intent against Birmingham, and that was on the back of a cracking display against Derby. For me, this has to be down to the setup and tactics, a safety first approach that is actually anything but.

I could (and often do ) moan about specific tactics or players out of position, but the reality is that without a huge change of attitude we are going nowhere in this division.

Thrac's post might be a little over the top but in essence he is right, a decent coach will get more out of his players than a poor one and there is little doubt that the weakest part of Sven's skill as a manager is matchday preparation, motivation and tactics.

As i said above, give him help in the area where he is weakest and let him do all the 'big picture' stuff he is so good at.

[Babylon]

As i said above, give him help in the area where he is weakest and let him do all the 'big picture' stuff he is so good at.

The thing is, that has to be his choice to bring someone in. If the board went above his head and brought someone in you may as well get a new manager, because all it does is under mind him and his current staff.

Anyway, I don't really want to get into this debate for perhaps another 4 or 5 games because I believe we have a very good chance to get ourselves into a decent position now.

[marbelladave]

The thing is, that has to be his choice to bring someone in. If the board went above his head and brought someone in you may as well get a new manager, because all it does is under mind him and his current staff.

Anyway, I don't really want to get into this debate for perhaps another 4 or 5 games because I believe we have a very good chance to get ourselves into a decent position now.

Tricky one I agree, if the board play it correctly it should work, pitch it as a 'promotion' to General Manager (Football), bring in a first team coach. Neither Stowell or Fazackerly have impressed me as yet, though I would be happy for them to stay and see what they can do under a new coach.

Your positivity has cheared me up this morning....

We certainly "have a very good chance", but will we take it, time will tell.......

Can't spell this morning, cheers.......