EU Referendum

[Dr The Singh]

I guess but like the capital punishment I think things of National Importance should be on individual conscience. There seems to me no point in voting for a specific candidate we might all just as well have a list of the parties and vote for them. I appreciate that's what many do but that to me is wrong and perhaps why we get so many self serving career politicians. As one who finds them self agreeing/disagreeing with many elements of all parties I can't understand why there are so many totally entrenched party political supporters.

I agree, this is why I support no candidate or no party, the whole system is set towards the self serving. I'm not anti or pro euro, and unfortunately like most people in this country do not know the effects of opting in or out, but one thing is for sure, laws should be decided for those people and by those people for that nation, and like you say national interests decided by nationals!!

[FoxyPV]

Did the EU not force such things as minimum wage, discrimation legislation etc on the the UK?

[davieG]

Did the EU not force such terrible things as minimum wage, discrimation legislation etc on the the UK?

Don't know did they?

[FoxyPV]

According to the Daily Mail it had I'm completely unsure of this but want to see how far it will go

[acooling08]

Did the EU not force such things as minimum wage, discrimation legislation etc on the the UK?

That was useful? Jesus Christ.

[FoxyPV]

That was useful? Jesus Christ.

Nothing says modern society like discriminating against people because of their race/ sex/ religion/ sexual orientation etc.

Would you prefer people to wear different coloured star armbands so you could aim your insults accurately?

[Guest Bilo]

Nothing says modern society like discriminating against people because of their race/ sex/ religion/ sexual orientation etc.

Would you prefer people to wear different coloured star armbands so you could aim your insults accurately?

In terms of aiming abuse at people who deserve it, chavs have a very considerate habit of making themselves distinctive.

[Ultra]

Don't know did they?

Err, no. The minimum wage was introduced by the Blair government in the late 90s and had nothing to do with the EU.

[Ultra]

I guess but like the capital punishment I think things of National Importance should be on individual conscience. There seems to me no point in voting for a specific candidate we might all just as well have a list of the parties and vote for them. I appreciate that's what many do but that to me is wrong and perhaps why we get so many self serving career politicians. As one who finds them self agreeing/disagreeing with many elements of all parties I can't understand why there are so many totally entrenched party political supporters.

You may interested to hear that Keith Vaz was one of the 19 Labour MPs who broke the party whip and voted for a referendum.

Pity he couldn't have shown such bravery on something of real importance, like the Iraq war.

[21st Century Fox]

If we were out of the EU who would The Daily Mail have to blame for the apocalyptic industrial crash that would occur afterwards in Britain when over 50% of our export custom dries up. I'd almost be willing to shoot myself in the foot to find out.

[Rincewind]

From what I hear we have little export industry. There is virtually no hosiery or engineering in Leicester. All the materials are imported from countries that pay their workers less than the minimum wage. (allegedly)

Went for a job today 8 hours a week litter picking. Was told there was 40-50 applicants wherehas a few years ago there would have been a couple. If it would be worse out of the EU I'm glad I have only five years till I can retire..

I do not have the know how to decide which path is better. I suppose like most people when they vote they do so depending on their own personal/family circumstances. They will vote for the MP that sounds the most convincing and more likely to help. Many people do not care about National or World issues.

[adam1]

I'd like to hear actual peoples thoughts, rather than the thick MPs

The reason why I don't want a referendum is because the majority of the public are too thick to understand.

[21st Century Fox]

The reason why I don't want a referendum is because the majority of the public are too thick to understand.

True (kind of ) but not enough people are given enough fair information about it. They glean the majority of their information from papers that make a living through scare-mongering.

Long and short of it is, now isn't the time, really not the time. When people are scared they'll do anything to try and turn things around. Wait until the financial climate levels out and then have a debate as to whether a referendum is required.

[Webbo]

Did the EU not force such things as minimum wage, discrimation legislation etc on the the UK?

Even if that's true there would be nothing stopping us creating those laws for ourselves if we wanted to.

[Webbo]

The reason why I don't want a referendum is because the majority of the public are too thick to understand.

i.e. they don't agree with you.

People who didn't want to join the Euro were called thick, xenophobic, little Englanders and that Britain would suffer if we didn't join. Nobody is saying that now.

[Zingari]

The reason why I don't want a referendum is because the majority of the public are too thick to understand.

Maybe we are, but surely if we’re too thick to vote on a single issue referendum, then we must be too thick to vote on a whole raft of issues put forward in the party manifestos at general elections.

[Jon the Hat]

i.e. they don't agree with you.

People who didn't want to join the Euro were called thick, xenophobic, little Englanders and that Britain would suffer if we didn't join. Nobody is saying that now.

Really? People who want us to leave the EU are thick , xenophobic, little Englanders and Britain will suffer if we leave.

Trust me, I am a Europe Middle East and Africa Financial Controller for a $4Billion business. The UK would be screwed big time if it exited the EU.

This is not the same as saying we should be in the Euro, that closer political integration is required or that we should all bow down to the great EU bureacracy. It is not perfect, but it is better than the alternative.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Really? People who want us to leave the EU are thick , xenophobic, little Englanders and Britain will suffer if we leave.

I consider myself to be relatively well read and aware of what's going on in the world compared to the average fleshbag in the street, but when it comes to the Europe argument I don't really have a clue what it's all about, and I think that's down to the message from both the pro and anti factions being so bloody vague. It's certainly not presented in a way where I can feel that strongly about it either way, and I'm at a bit of a loss as to why other people do.

Most of the anti arguments seem to be from people who went on a daytrip to Calais and thought the toilets were a bit odd, and they didn't have proper bacon

[Webbo]

Really? People who want us to leave the EU are thick , xenophobic, little Englanders and Britain will suffer if we leave.

Trust me, I am a Europe Middle East and Africa Financial Controller for a $4Billion business. The UK would be screwed big time if it exited the EU.

This is not the same as saying we should be in the Euro, that closer political integration is required or that we should all bow down to the great EU bureacracy. It is not perfect, but it is better than the alternative.

Switzerland manages.

The EU is corrupt, incompetent , overly bureaucratic and undemocratic. If it can't or won't change then we shouldn't be in it.

[bluesbrothers]

I dont see why there can't be a referendum. After all, even the Pro-EU lobby (IE; The Lib Dems) had a referendum in their manifesto.

It goes down as yet another broken promise. Screw the 3 main parties. I'm voting UKIP.

Switzerland manages.

As does Norway, neither of who's economies have been nearly as badly damaged in the financial crisis as most within the EU, eurozone or otherwise.

Sure, it costs £10 for a Mars Bar, but at least their people have jobs to pay for commodities.

Trust me, I am a Europe Middle East and Africa Financial Controller for a $4Billion business. The UK would be screwed big time if it exited the EU.

So you're saying that free trade agreements that any self respecting independent foreign secretary would secure with Europe, the Commonwealth (India included) and China would damage business?

[Guest MattP]

Really? People who want us to leave the EU are thick , xenophobic, little Englanders and Britain will suffer if we leave.

Trust me, I am a Europe Middle East and Africa Financial Controller for a $4Billion business. The UK would be screwed big time if it exited the EU.

This is not the same as saying we should be in the Euro, that closer political integration is required or that we should all bow down to the great EU bureacracy. It is not perfect, but it is better than the alternative.

There are many people in jobs such as yours as well that would want us to leave the EU.

I dont remain convinced we need it anymore, It was great when it increased our trade with France and Germany, a great union, now we are there to pump in cash to try and get Greece and Spain off its knees, to try and bring balkan states closer to us financially, it's turned from a very decent financial agreement to a huge burden within the space of ten years. Not to mention the pressure on out own job market making a British passport effectively into a European one. How many more countries will you accept into the EU before you think about us deciding if we should continue to remain in it??. This is costing us 118billion a year, that's a hell of a lot of money to pay to remain in a club to continue paying more. That's even before we get to the argument about actually upholding our own laws.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/6198708/EU-costs-Britain-118bn-a-year.html

I'll ignore the usual Xenophobia remarks from the Guardianistas desperate to keep their failied dream alive, the same people put the same arguments forward when we were campaigning against the Euro, thank fcuk they were ignored then as well.

I dont see why there can't be a referendum. After all, even the Pro-EU lobby (IE; The Lib Dems) had a referendum in their manifesto.

It goes down as yet another broken promise. Screw the 3 main parties. I'm voting UKIP.

Same here now, Cameron has lost me.

[leicesterseddon]

You mean all those left wing ones that were desperate not only to take us into the EU but to also take on the euro which would probably of bankrupted us?

Im ok with "man down the pub" then in that's what you pigeonhole the whole eurosceptic movement as.

We joined the EEC under the Tories, and the EU under the Tories in 1992 with the Maastricht Treaty, as DavieG pointed out.

Interestingly enough, the most eurosceptic branch of British politics that has ever existed was the 'traditional' left back in the 70s when EEC membership was being discussed. Old Labour figures saw the whole enterprise as a kind of 'capitalist club', and much preferred trade protectionism, which they felt would safeguard British manufacturing jobs. As it happened, they were right - except that the threat to British manufacturing wouldn't come from Europe, but rather the emerging economies of India and China...

Kind of riles me when people think of euroscepticism as a High Tory position, or something only supported by right-wing xenophobes. Just not true at all.

[Guest MattP]

We joined the EEC under the Tories, and the EU under the Tories in 1992 with the Maastricht Treaty, as DavieG pointed out.

Interestingly enough, the most eurosceptic branch of British politics that has ever existed was the 'traditional' left back in the 70s when EEC membership was being discussed. Old Labour figures saw the whole enterprise as a kind of 'capitalist club', and much preferred trade protectionism, which they felt would safeguard British manufacturing jobs. As it happened, they were right - except that the threat to British manufacturing wouldn't come from Europe, but rather the emerging economies of India and China...

Kind of riles me when people think of euroscepticism as a High Tory position, or something only supported by right-wing xenophobes. Just not true at all.

I understand that, though what we have now is far far different to what we entered to back then.

This version has just become the worlds biggest gravy train for any politician attracted to greed and corruption.

[leicesterseddon]

I understand that, though what we have now is far far different to what we entered to back then.

This version has just become the worlds biggest gravy train for any politician attracted to greed and corruption.

I'm not going to disagree with you. I'm eurosceptic myself.

At the end of the day, the initial motivations for creating the EEC were protectionist too - the aim was for European countries to reduce trade tax between themselves, so as to compete with the USA (and, to a certain extent, with the emerging economies in the East, although no one knew back then just quite how quickly they would go on to grow). The idea that the enterprise was about inter-cultural sharing is a nonsense. The only inter-cultural aim the EEC/EU has ever stood for is to keep the French and Germans tied into the same economic system - and that was born out of a desire to prevent another world war.

As for the 'political' dimension of the EU - that's what I really don't agree with. Personally I found the contradiction in New Labour attitudes to democracy quite astonishing...on the one hand, they devolved power to Scotland and Wales and created the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly, arguing that democracy worked best 'locally' and that it was imperative these tiny countries were able to express their cultural 'identities' (and when I say 'identities', I mean all that differentiates them from the English). And then on the other they continued to support a political and legal system that has a huge influence on our lives, that was based in several different foreign cities, representing several different nations and cultures, run by many people we don't get to vote for at all or are on pathetically small mandates.

[accessory]

I understand that, though what we have now is far far different to what we entered to back then.

This version has just become the worlds biggest gravy train for any politician attracted to greed and corruption.

As opposed to the beacons of financial transparency and public-spirited generosity for which Switzerland, Wall Street and the City of London are renowned the world over..