Syria - What happens next?

[Jon the Hat]

The US will definitely go ahead. They can't back down now.

Agreed, so while this vote was important for Parliamentry democracy, it is completely irrelevant to Syria, and it's only impact is to make the UK look a bit silly.

[leicsmac]

Agreed, so while this vote was important for Parliamentry democracy, it is completely irrelevant to Syria, and it's only impact is to make the UK look a bit silly.

 

How so? We're not the ones daft enough to choose to get involved in this bloodbath where neither side is worth backing and the end result will only be pretty much total chaos. 

[MooseBreath]

Any "standing" which is based on our willingness to rush into foreign conflicts with barely discriminate and ill-considered bombing is not a standing worth having imo. I'm quite happy for us to take a few steps back from trying to be the world police. Let's prioritise spending our money and time on improving life for British citizens in Britain before we try solving world problems that are mostly beyond our control.

[Dr The Singh]

I disagree.  We are one of 5 nations with a permanent seat on the UN security council.  That is important.  We also still have a lot of influence in the commonwealth, and strong relations with the US.  Look at Spain, they had an empire, so did the dutch.  Do they have our influence?  No. 

I dunno Jon maybe i'm wrong, i've not heard any decent arguement for trying so hard to be part of the security council, nations such as India, Pakistan have been trying so hard for years to be part of this so called elite club.  Switzerland, Denmark, Austria, a whole host of other nations that are not on the security council do well without it, we already have a world police (US), the world police will do what it will without the security council.

 

Influence in the commonwealth has dwindled, even India rebuked Cameron on the typhoon deal, India has began sticking two fingers at the us, calling the aid deal 'peanuts' and not wanted.  Yet India has brought ancient Russian subs and has now increased it's armed trade with the US who have a million and one clauses, so good for commonwealth relations.

 

My 2 pence, were already making cuts to our armed forces, our equipment is second rate, R&D budgets have been cut, forget about being in the world police!

[Jon the Hat]

Any "standing" which is based on our willingness to rush into foreign conflicts with barely discriminate and ill-considered bombing is not a standing worth having imo. I'm quite happy for us to take a few steps back from trying to be the world police. Let's prioritise spending our money and time on improving life for British citizens in Britain before we try solving world problems that are mostly beyond our control.

 

To be honest I'm not sure you can call waiting for two years and a hundred thousand dead rushing in.Just becuase the public have not been paying attention doesn't mean the government hasn't. We have been clear that using chemical weapons was something that we would not overlook, and now we are. 

[Dr The Singh]

To be honest I'm not sure you can call waiting for two years and a hundred thousand dead rushing in.Just becuase the public have not been paying attention doesn't mean the government hasn't. We have been clear that using chemical weapons was something that we would not overlook, and now we are. 

I agree we shouldn't overlook such tactics, but what is the right response?  Will Military action do any good, are there any other diplomatic means?

[MooseBreath]

To be honest I'm not sure you can call waiting for two years and a hundred thousand dead rushing in.Just becuase the public have not been paying attention doesn't mean the government hasn't. We have been clear that using chemical weapons was something that we would not overlook, and now we are.

Yes but the use of chemical weapons seems to have provoked a rush. If the government has been monitoring this for two years with a potential intervention in mind then they should by now have a very clear and precise plan as to how to get the very best result with the least risk. If they had that then I'm sure the result of the vote would have been different and the public would also be more supportive.

[Jon the Hat]

I am not sure we can or should expect the Government to detail military tactics on live TV in the house of commons.  The fact is they discussed this with the other party leaders, and got a positive response to their view.  They then presented this to the house, and Labour changed their mind - probably becuase they could not convince their party.  Still think this is more about Iraq than anythine else.

[Jon the Hat]

More importantly, someone save this beautiful Syrian chick!!

 

2.10 seconds.

[Zingari]

I am not sure we can or should expect the Government to detail military tactics on live TV in the house of commons.  The fact is they discussed this with the other party leaders, and got a positive response to their view.  They then presented this to the house, and Labour changed their mind - probably becuase they could not convince their party.  Still think this is more about Iraq than anythine else.

Of course it is !

Fool us once shame on you,

Fool us twice shame on us .

 

Even politicians have to bear the possibility  of deceit  in mind .

[Jon the Hat]

Of course it is !

Fool us once shame on you,

Fool us twice shame on us .

 

Even politicians have to bear the possibility  of deceit  in mind .

That is all very well, but what if they are right this time?  Crying wolf and all that, but the Syrians might be the sheep in this fable!

[gazzer]

Won't be popular with the arms dealers. Could end up costing Camoron a Board position or two down the line and some associated riches but I expect he'll survive.

[Zingari]

That is all very well, but what if they are right this time?  Crying wolf and all that, but the Syrians might be the sheep in this fable!

I can see where you're coming from Jon , but surely given the choice  it's better to be wrong and do nothing than be wrong and actively make things worse .

[Jon the Hat]

I can see where you're coming from Jon , but surely given the choice  it's better to be wrong and do nothing than be wrong and actively make things worse .

 

I don't really understand the joy at us doing nothing I guess.  We have very little to lose in firing a few cruise missiles and supporting our allies in this.  Politics and a determination to punish the government for something a previous one did seem to me to have got in the way.

[MooseBreath]

I don't really understand the joy at us doing nothing I guess. We have very little to lose in firing a few cruise missiles and supporting our allies in this. Politics and a determination to punish the government for something a previous one did seem to me to have got in the way.

When has our involvement in this kind of thing ever ended with just a few cruise missiles though?

[Guest]

I don't really understand the joy at us doing nothing I guess.  We have very little to lose in firing a few cruise missiles and supporting our allies in this.  Politics and a determination to punish the government for something a previous one did seem to me to have got in the way.

 

Honestly in some quarters I think the joy is based more on a victory over Cameron than it is that the right thing has been done.

 

Although I'm happy that we've displayed that our democratic process isn't just a forgone conclusion you can't help feel the humanitarian tragedy is being somewhat lost in the moving of the story to the political process.

[Finnegan]

More importantly, someone save this beautiful Syrian chick!!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X7G1kmQWjOM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DX7G1kmQWjOM

2.10 seconds.

[Zingari]

I don't really understand the joy at us doing nothing I guess.  We have very little to lose in firing a few cruise missiles and supporting our allies in this.  Politics and a determination to punish the government for something a previous one did seem to me to have got in the way.

It's really nothing to do "party politics" Jon.

That left /right stuff is just about tinkering around with how they collect taxes,  and where and who from and everyday stuff like that.

 

International warfare is dictated by a whole different set of people.( laugh if you want to ) 

 

Blair was subjected to the external pressures and the deceit, and now Cameron is in the same boat 

The same international cartel is still in place now that was there during the Blair years , and they're still calling the  shots about what goes on .

 

As I  said before , I really doubt if this is the end of UK involvement . Some event will occur to change things around. 

 

 

I really hope I'm wrong though.

[Finnegan]

Zingari, out of interest, are there ANY good guys?

[Zingari]

Zingari, out of interest, are there ANY good guys?

not powerful ones , no 

[Finnegan]

not powerful ones , no

just so we're clear!

[Rincewind]

Seems they don't want what happened to Blair to happen to them. I remember friends who are Torys saying invading Iraq was a good idea. a few years later Blair is being called an incompetent fool. At the time he and other MP's were convinced there were WMD. They are still killing each other and they will in Syria no matter what regime we the US or anyone else imposes on the people.Time for a dialogue strategy around a table and tell them pack it in and if you want weapons tough shit because we are not selling you them.

 

From what I am reading, it is OK if the Tories want to go to war but not if Labour does it.

 

To me it doesn't matter. Warmongering is wrong. End of.

You can fool all the people some of the time,and sone of the people all of the time,but you can't fool all the people all of the time.

[Tielemans63]

In terms of domestic politics this is not what Cameron needed as many people will see this as weakness - bowing to American pressure when really he's pretty powerless.

Couldn't have come at a better time for Milliband. I'm traditionally a labour voter but there's no way that pussy would get my vote - what does the guy even stand for? Sad thing is that he could benefit massively from this by doing absolutely nothing. Rather than having the conviction to say what he believes in he's waiting to to see what the public mood is so he can take advantage. The Tories are absolutely right to slate him, I just hope the public aren't sucked in.

If people think we're too soft when it comes to international negotiation now imagine if Ed comes into power? I shudder to think.

[Jon the Hat]

Milliband is a joke.  How anyone could vote for a party with him in power I literally have no idea.

[James.]

It's really nothing to do "party politics" Jon.

That left /right stuff is just about tinkering around with how they collect taxes,  and where and who from and everyday stuff like that.

 

International warfare is dictated by a whole different set of people.( laugh if you want to ) 

 

Blair was subjected to the external pressures and the deceit, and now Cameron is in the same boat 

The same international cartel is still in place now that was there during the Blair years , and they're still calling the  shots about what goes on .

 

As I  said before , I really doubt if this is the end of UK involvement . Some event will occur to change things around. 

 

 

I really hope I'm wrong though.

 

 

One thing that sometimes confuses me is your absolute certainty with which you state these sort of things. I thought the main premise of a conspiracy theorist is to question everything and yet you seem totally convinced your particular theory is correct. Surely, using your own principles, your theory is just one out of a whole range of potential scenarios?