New LCFC Accounts

[Petchy]

They aren't doing this because they love the club.

Good morning people, have a wiff...

I don't think anyone thinks that... people just want clarification what this means to be honest without all the account jargon.

[cc_star]

I don't really understand this if I'm honest. API / KP decided to invest in us, yet now the club owes them money? What?! I didn't think there would be a deadline to pay the investment back.

The deadline will just get moved back & back, unless at some point administration serves them better, they'll of course be preferential creditors who'd be first on the list to get paid back from whatever assets are owned by LCFC, not AFI.

Seeing as championship clubs rarely make a profit, it might NEVER be paid back unless we do a Reading & start signing people from the Irish leagues for £50k and selling them for millions, if it can never be paid back the debt will just get worse & worse thanks to the interest rate they're charging the club.

Not only will it get worse because of not paying it back & it just rolling over & over, but it will also be added to because of ongoing costs & WAGES & of course yet more loans for signings, fees & wages so that we do get promoted.

[DorsetFox9]

All is not as it seems. take a look at what this guy has to say about it, he is a Accountant. https://twitter.com/#!/t__gardner

[Daggers]

This is how I paid myself when I was a company director

Can you lend me £28,000,000?

[cc_star]

Does anyone know what the situation with our stadium is?

As far as I know it's owned by an American pension fund and we pay them rent

Training ground is the only asset owned by the club, unless it's owned by AFI these days & the club lease it off them

[Daggers]

I don't think anyone thinks that... people just want clarification what this means to be honest without all the account jargon.

I think a lot still do, Petchy. It's what the big tagline was when they first arrived and loads of people started repeating it on forums like a mantra.

Many people feel that it is their duty to put money into the club for free and this reason balances it out for them. Everyone went on about how Mandy was giving the club money and swallowed everyone of his lies...but then the worm started to turn when he tightened the purse strings and stopped underwriting further loans to the club.

Without promotion this season I see history starting to repeat itself...just on a more expensive scale.

Apologies to everyone of a sensitive disposition if this opinion isn't the happy-clappy guff you'd rather be reading that falls in line with your opinions

[dave the caveman]

No need to worry while they are still improving assets (including buying players). If you were trying to make a sneaky profit at the expense of the clubs future, the last thing you would do would be too spend money on improving assets. The loan is for tax purposes as someone said. If the owners start asset stripping then we should worry, but perhaps until then we should stop with all this blind cynicism and actually show them some respect.

[Guest ttfn]

All is not as it seems. take a look at what this guy has to say about it, he is a Accountant. https://twitter.com/#!/t__gardner

He talks a lot of sense.

All is as it seems if you just read the accounts. They're available for download for £1 on the Companies House website.

Our accounts are signed so we can be pretty sure we'll be here this time next year (which is more than can be said for Birmingham and Coventry who are filing late)

[Webbo]

All is not as it seems. take a look at what this guy has to say about it, he is a Accountant. https://twitter.com/#!/t__gardner

That sounds like Tommy G off here.

[Guest ttfn]

Also, people need to stop mixing up personal tax with corporation tax.

I'd have to sit and think about it properly to be sure, but I can't see how there would be a tax benefit in a perennially loss-making company.

[Daggers]

That sounds like Tommy G off here.

It is TommyG off here

[Libertine Dream]

All is not as it seems. take a look at what this guy has to say about it, he is a Accountant. https://twitter.com/#!/t__gardner

The guy talks a lot of sense and from my knowledge is spot on. A lot of people see big numbers, get scared and immediately fear the worst. Most people that understand these things will have expected this and not be panicking yet. The Mercury and Radio Leicester will end up twisting it to scare people who may not fully understand, just hope people aren't moaning about it after the game, without first thinking about it.

Not going to claim I'm an expert before people start calling me.

[yorkie1999]

All i know is that the more money i make the more the taxman takes off me, wonder what would happen if i made -15 million quid.

[unreachable]

Asia Football Investments is mentioned again yet so far as I'm aware no one knows who constitute the consortium, what its legal status is and in what tax haven or otherwise it lodges its accounts. Is it the Virgin Islands, Bahamas, Delaware USA (where Mandaric based some element of his interest in LCFC)? What individuals having beneficial interests in AFI decide who call in any of the debts?

Perennial questions that never get answered.

Idle questions since despite the many posts from accountants etc no one apart from the private inner sanctum of the club has the faintest idea what's going on.

[stourbridgefox]

The ground is mortgaged with Teachers Insurance, which is a US company as someone said.

My understanding, which is in no way an expert opinion, is that we will eventually pay the debt off and own the ground. I believe we pay around £3 million a year off the 'mortgage' which increases to around £6 million a year if we are in the Premier League. I also think the term of the original loan was around 25 years.

Milan Mandaric talked about restructuring the debt on the ground but decided to leave it as is. I think this was because the lender's terms for altering the repayments were more expensive than keeping on paying as agreed originally. The Thai owners have obviously come to a similar conclusion over this too. I would guess the lender is serving the needs of it's shareholders rather than allowing the club to repay early at a cheaper rate.

If my memory serves me correctly, the stadium will become the club's property in 2027.

[davieG]

The ground is mortgaged with Teachers Insurance, which is a US company as someone said.

My understanding, which is in no way an expert opinion, is that we will eventually pay the debt off and own the ground. I believe we pay around £3 million a year off the 'mortgage' which increases to around £6 million a year if we are in the Premier League. I also think the term of the original loan was around 25 years.

Milan Mandaric talked about restructuring the debt on the ground but decided to leave it as is. I think this was because the lender's terms for altering the repayments were more expensive than keeping on paying as agreed originally. The Thai owners have obviously come to a similar conclusion over this too. I would guess the lender is serving the needs of it's shareholders rather than allowing the club to repay early at a cheaper rate.

If my memory serves me correctly, the stadium will become the club's property in 2027.

My information is that we're just paying the interest and will never pay it off unless we get a sustained run in the PL, apparently Mr Elsom had the belief that under Mr Taylor we would always be in the PL. Unless of course someone feels like coughing up the full amount+.

[Cropwellfox]

The first 12 months - well actually 18 and therefore carried into the next financial year - has been seen to have been a failed experiment in throwing money for an instant return, and although they can't change it, hopefully the owners have seen this, more pragmatic spending and investing mainly in players with future resale looks to be the way we are heading and hopefully we will stay on this course. We may need to see a couple of players sold to allow Pearson to carry on shaping his squad and hopefully the owners will allow a more solid development of the club and stick around to see their investment pay off when it is our turn to reach the PL - which lets be honest is just as much about a club ethic, luck and form at the right time as it is about having the highest wage bill. There are as said also very good accounting reasons why we are being loaned rather than 'gifted' money by our investors and we won't see the stadium naming rights money until next years accounts. Press scaremongering isn't helpful, and we need to trust the owners of our club - top watching our reserves is an indication of their commitment to the cause, plenty of other things for a 20-something millionaire to be spending his time doing. We are a million miles from the horrible situation many other clubs are in with no assets, much more debt and no credible ownership.

[The People's Hero]

All i know is that the more money i make the more the taxman takes off me, wonder what would happen if i made -15 million quid.

Unless you've got £15million to start with, I expect whoever is/was supporting you would cut you loose long before it got that far!

[unreachable]

My information is that we're just paying the interest and will never pay it off unless we get a sustained run in the PL, apparently Mr Elsom had the belief that under Mr Taylor we would always be in the PL. Unless of course someone feels like coughing up the full amount+.

I thought that as part of the deal done when we were in administration the freehold of the ground was transferred by the club to Teachers Pension Fund who were originally the Lender. The rent was to be based upon what division we were in with an option to buy back the ground.

[unreachable]

The first 12 months - well actually 18 and therefore carried into the next financial year - has been seen to have been a failed experiment in throwing money for an instant return, and although they can't change it, hopefully the owners have seen this, more pragmatic spending and investing mainly in players with future resale looks to be the way we are heading and hopefully we will stay on this course. We may need to see a couple of players sold to allow Pearson to carry on shaping his squad and hopefully the owners will allow a more solid development of the club and stick around to see their investment pay off when it is our turn to reach the PL - which lets be honest is just as much about a club ethic, luck and form at the right time as it is about having the highest wage bill. There are as said also very good accounting reasons why we are being loaned rather than 'gifted' money by our investors and we won't see the stadium naming rights money until next years accounts. Press scaremongering isn't helpful, and we need to trust the owners of our club - top watching our reserves is an indication of their commitment to the cause, plenty of other things for a 20-something millionaire to be spending his time doing. We are a million miles from the horrible situation many other clubs are in with no assets, much more debt and no credible ownership.

We still don't have a "credible ownership" because no one knows who owns the club.

[yorkie1999]

Unless you've got £15million to start with, I expect whoever is/was supporting you would cut you loose long before it got that far!

So if i had, for arguments sake, a rich daddy who bought me a football club and i made -15m what would the taxman take off me?

[The People's Hero]

So if i had, for arguments sake, a rich daddy who bought me a football club and i made -15m what would the taxman take off me?

Depends how far you want to simplify things.

You can't really 'make' £15million.

If we're talking a standard income ie either a dividend paid or a salary paid, income tax comes in to play, but I don't see you can have a salary or dividend of minus £15million.

I take your point that its hypothetical, but you need to give more information.

[davieG]

I thought that as part of the deal done when we were in administration the freehold of the ground was transferred by the club to Teachers Pension Fund who were originally the Lender. The rent was to be based upon what division we were in with an option to buy back the ground.

..and the rent we pay whilst in the Championship will take so long to pay it off as to be hardly be worth mentioning. The only way we can conceivable make inroads into the debt is to be in the PL or come up with some lump sums, as I understand it.

[yorkie1999]

Depends how far you want to simplify things.

You can't really 'make' £15million.

If we're talking a standard income ie either a dividend paid or a salary paid, income tax comes in to play, but I don't see you can have a salary or dividend of minus £15million.

I take your point that its hypothetical, but you need to give more information.

I just can't help thinking that if i had made 50million quid and then lost 15million quid, i would have made 35million quid, which the taxman can then tax me on. Maybe i'm thinking too simply!

[ScouseFox]

Never understood this shit, are we completely fvcked yet?

Or can I just keep thinking it's not my money, we can waste as much as we like as long as we get good eventually?